Nikola Jokic wins MVP(again)

EH15 · Post #421 » by **EH15** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:31 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:i don't like that the award has transitioned from best player on the best (or on a great) team to a discussion about who has the least help like its a charity pity party award. MVP should be better than that

So who should have won it this season?

There were three players who statistically stood out from everybody else...

- Jokic (48 wins)
- Embiid (51 wins)
- Giannis (51 wins)

Am I missing a viable candidate from a better team? Is three wins really that big of a deal when they don't even play in the same conference?

And just to add a little more context to this.

Jokic: Played in 46 wins
Embiid: Played in 45 wins
Giannis: Played in 45 wins

When it comes to an individual award like this, if we are going to focus so heavily on team wins, lets just focus on the wins that they actually played in. Who cares that the 6ers or Bucks won 6 games without their stars vs Denver only winning 3 games without their's.

I'll underline this for people

Jokic: Played in 46 wins

Embiid: Played in 45 wins
Giannis: Played in 45 wins

BelgradeNugget · Post #422 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:31 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:i don't like that the award has transitioned from best player on the best (or on a great) team to a discussion about who has the least help like its a charity pity party award. MVP should be better than that

KembaWalker wrote:We're all in agreement that Giannis is the actual best and most valuable player in the league right? He just doesn't win because his teammates didn't get hurt till the playoffs? So weird

Man, if you want to argue try to find some real arguments, because this way you simply sound like troll/hater. What Giannis has to do with best player on the best (or on a great) team. His team had 7th best record in the NBA, 3rd in the east. So try to find another favorite like Booker/CP3, Desmond Bane/Ja, Jimmy Butler, Curry/Poole, Luka/Brunson or Tatum if you hate Jokic so much, you will have a little less laughable argument.

The difference is, Giannis help goes down and we all still know he's going to beat the 2 seed. Jokic loses his help and we have to hear a season long of pre excuses for him to lose
The bar for Jokic is so low

This is new argument for you? Sounds as stupid as the last one. Sorry for interference keep trolling/hating

BoatsNZones · Post #423 » by **BoatsNZones** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:35 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:We're all in agreement that Giannis is the actual best and most valuable player in the league right? He just doesn't win because his teammates didn't get hurt till the playoffs? So weird

I agree and dont see how anyone would argue it at this point that is watching the playoffs. Jokic had great RS numbers, and Denver cleaned up vs. bad teams all season while struggling against teams over .500 (like you see in the games that matter, the playoffs). They did so because Jokic was the best player on the floor in most all of those games. Yet people act like it was some miracle that he dragged their roster to a quick out in the playoffs, despite him being a top player in the league. How many healthy elite players missed the playoffs this year? It wasnt some magical occurence that they made it. He didnt stand out as the best player in the playoffs.

But you're out here in awe of Giannis' volume production on 50/16/66? The guy plays an amazing brand of bully ball, but he's not exactly a basketball savant and far from the leagues clear #1 imo.

HardenToSixers · Post #424 » by **HardenToSixers** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:35 pm

people are welcome to think Jokic is MVP. I just think Embiid is the more dominant player that you would rather have on most teams on a playoff run. I also think that it's pretty lame focusing so much on single-number all encompassing stats like BPM, PER or VORP, especially for conclusions as ridiculous as Jokic is as good at defense as Embiid when it is very obvious that is not the case.

ThatBoyNick · Post #425 » by **ThatBoyNick** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:35 pm

Only 2nd rounder in NBA history to win MVP twice, only one other 2nd rounder has ever even won it once.

One of 15 players to win MVP more then once

Last 4 years of MVP, pick #15, pick #15, pick #41, pick #41

Scouts in shambles

ProcessDoctor · Post #426 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:35 pm

Yikes.

Sharkboy242 · Post #427 » by **Sharkboy242** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:37 pm

HardenToSixers wrote:people are welcome to think Jokic is MVP. I just think Embiid is the more dominant player that you would rather have on most teams on a playoff run. I also think that it's pretty lame focusing so much on single-number all encompassing stats like BPM, PER or VORP, especially for conclusions as ridiculous as Jokic is as good at defense as Embiid when it is very obvious that is not the case.

He's so dominant that his scoring drops from the regular season to the playoffs.

Pablo Escobar · Post #428 » by **Pablo Escobar** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:37 pm

Best center in the league.. Well deserved! Embiid fans need to stop being salty. Your boy is good but he ain't no Jokic!!!

PANDABREAD · Post #429 » by **PANDABREAD** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:37 pm

There's really no solid criteria for being MVP and some can arguably say that it is mostly based on what the voters feel every year. Value is such a subjective thing to award and this is why imo there's almost zero, if not totally zero wrong winner everytime

Roger Murdock · Post #430 » by **Roger Murdock** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:39 pm

cpower wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:We're all in agreement that Giannis is the actual best and most valuable player in the league right? He just doesn't win because his teammates didn't get hurt till the playoffs? So weird

he was chilling in the RS. otherwise he could have make them win 60 games at least.

Exactly

Giannis won 2x MVPs when he was the best player during the season and his team dominated

Funny enough he lost in the post season and this board called him:
-a choker
-fraud
-regular season player
-fake mvp

Then he actually won it all and that was reconned out of history.

Giannis won 2x MVPs because he was the best regular season player. Jokic won 2x MVPs because he was the best regular season player

Who was the last player to win a title as the best player on a team before winning an MVP?

Not Giannis, not Curry, not Durant, not Harden, not Westbrook, not Jokic, not Rose, not Dirk, not Nash. I think it’s only Kobe and Duncan as the only two in recent memory. And Kobe didn’t win his title as the best player.

Really Tim Duncan is the only player in the last 30 seasons to prove he’s a title winning player prior to winning MVP.

Big J · Post #431 » by **Big J** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:39 pm

Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

Pelon chingon · Post #432 » by **Pelon chingon** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:46 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
We do not. Jokic is the best player in the league right now with Giannis a legit close 2nd imo, but it's a real debate. Jokic and Giannis are this era's Magic and Bird.

I mean there's no Magic/Bird comp when there's zero rivalry. And both are great, but far from head and shoulders above the pack. Definitely disagree with his take. The NBA does not have a "best player" currently.

These guys are well on their way to challenging for top 10 all time man. We are seeing two absolute living legends in their prime right now.

Nah.

Chanel Bomber · Post #433 » by **Chanel Bomber** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:49 pm

Big J wrote:Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

I think you then run the risk of overreacting to one series as opposed to the entire body of work.

I think it would make more sense to have regular season MVP and playoff MVP, although that would probably dilute the Finals MVP award.

I don't see the problem anyway. Jokic was arguably the best player in the NBA during the regular season. Nobody expected him to win a round in the playoffs,

Jcity08 · Post #434 » by **Jcity08** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:50 pm

Big J wrote:Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

Ah yes lets award the MVP to the player whose team advances the furthest in the playoffs, not like that award doesnt already exist.

KembaWalker · Post #435 » by **KembaWalker** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:50 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
BoatsNZones wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
We do not. Jokic is the best player in the league right now with Giannis a legit close 2nd imo, but it's a real debate. Jokic and Giannis are this era's Magic and Bird.

I mean there's no Magic/Bird comp when there's zero rivalry. And both are great, but far from head and shoulders above the pack. Definitely disagree with his take. The NBA does not have a "best player" currently.

These guys are well on their way to challenging for top 10 all time man. We are seeing two absolute living legends in their prime right now.

putting Giannis and Jokic in the same sentence like that is just disrespectful. They aren't super close legacy-wise and they aren't super close in terms of value right now

Cubbies2120 · Post #436 » by **Cubbies2120** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:51 pm

Big J wrote:Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

Why not just entire playoffs? Id love to see Kawhi take home a few MVPs tbh

KembaWalker · Post #437 » by **KembaWalker** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:51 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Big J wrote:Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

I think you then run the risk of overreacting to one series as opposed to the entire body of work.

I think it would make more sense to have regular season MVP and playoff MVP, although that would probably dilute the Finals MVP award.

I don't see the problem anyway. Jokic was arguably the best player in the NBA during the regular season. Nobody expected him to win a round in the playoffs,

i agree
this is the modern NBA MVP bar

its funny as hell someone tried to troll me about LaMelo earlier in this thread. LaMelo got more hate for losing a couple play-in games at age 19-20 than Jokic gets for losing in the first round as a 2x MVP. same with Trae. i don't get why the standards are so low for the guy

Big J · Post #438 » by **Big J** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:52 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
Big J wrote:Why haven't we gotten rid of MVP of the regular season yet? MVP of the whole season including the playoffs would be so much better.

I think you then run the risk of overreacting to one series as opposed to the entire body of work.

I think it would make more sense to have regular season MVP and playoff MVP, although that would probably dilute the Finals MVP award.

I don't see the problem anyway. Jokic was arguably the best player in the NBA during the regular season. Nobody expected him to win a round in the playoffs,

My issue is then you have guys with multiple MVP's who haven't won a title yet. Like how many MVP's should you be allowed to win without producing a championship? Historically I don't know if there are even any 3x MVP's who've never won a title.

hardenASG13 · Post #439 » by **hardenASG13** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:52 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:We're all in agreement that Giannis is the actual best and most valuable player in the league right? He just doesn't win because his teammates didn't get hurt till the playoffs? So weird

I agree and dont see how anyone would argue it at this point that is watching the playoffs. Jokic had great RS numbers, and Denver cleaned up vs. bad teams all season while struggling against teams over .500 (like you see in the games that matter, the playoffs). They did so because Jokic was the best player on the floor in most all of those games. Yet people act like it was some miracle that he dragged their roster to a quick out in the playoffs, despite him being a top player in the league. How many healthy elite players missed the playoffs this year? It wasnt some magical occurence that they made it. He didnt stand out as the best player in the playoffs.

But you're out here in awe of Giannis' volume production on 50/16/66? The guy plays an amazing brand of bully ball, but he's not exactly a basketball savant and far from the leagues clear #1.

Yeah I am, hes a stud on both ends. I could care less about the efficiency, good teams in a playoff series take away what opponents are comfortable with. Was giannis not extremely impressive in games 1 and 3 vs Boston on low efficiency?If it takes less efficient volume scoring to get the job done, so be it. Thats what superstars have to do sometimes, force up bad shots to keep the D honest when teammates cant get good looks or arent delivering. Numbers dont say it all. Superstars can be effective on lower efficiency or percentages, especially when them attacking regardless often leads to easy sexond chance opportunites or putbacks due to all the D watching them (like Ja morant, for example).

Mickey8 · Post #440 » by **Mickey8** » Mon May 9, 2022 7:53 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:
If you're going to have twice as many MVPs as Shaq or Kobe I'm gonna hold you to a pretty high standard. Stats aren't enough. Great regular season player

So you think Shaq and/or Kobe could have taken a team with Will Barton and Aaron Gordon as their next best options to the 2nd round?

I think MVP Shaq could very easily take Aaron Gordon and Will Barton to the second round, yes

Those players have averaged 14 points per game for the season, even with the all open shots Jokic was creating for them, not to mention their low basketball iq's. I wish every team in the league to have multiple Bartons on their rosters, so you can enjoy their stupidity on the nightly basis. .