Kendrick Perkins controversial comments on Jokic. Update: JJ Redick goes off on Perk about racism

[Billy Goat]

I think its much deeper than just white players doing good against black players. Its euro white players who are taking the jobs and the awards from the black american players.

Perhaps the American players should treat the regular season more seriously then.

[maxpower8888]

US society has zero tolerance for racism with white folk and Perkins should be held accountable to same standards. Downplaying racism is unacceptable and if you do that, you are applying different standards based on race.

But only White people can be racist. Everyone can be prejudice but only White people can be racist because prejudice plus power = racism.

Slash Green Font

I understand there are advantages and disadvantages between different groups but I never truly understood this very popular re-definition of the term and I’m not even White.

If you think about it, the whole "racism = prejudice + power" argument is a giant racist mind ****. It actually does the opposite of fighting racism by literally treating white people as above non-white people (the whole punching up vs. punching down argument). And nowhere does it leave any room for any criteria of when non-white people will have a similar amount of power as white people. The idea that an average working white guy somehow has more power than the average non-white person is not based in reality.

In the USA the most powerful people are almost exclusively white, and that needs to change. But somehow the progressive media has convinced the youth that if they racially discriminate against their white neighbors who hold no institutional power, that somehow will end racism. The people at the top are laughing at all of you.

[chuck_wagon44]

I blame Lebron for Kendrick Perkins comments as well.

It's obvious that Lebron is a direct link to Perkins, so his comments are somewhat coming from Lebron indirectly.

[KyRo23]

I blame Lebron for Kendrick Perkins comments as well.

It's obvious that Lebron is a direct link to Perkins, so his comments are somewhat coming from Lebron indirectly.

[phanman]

Aside from the asinine comments referring to race, his whole premise with not being top 10 in PPG to win MVP is just stupid. JJ smashed that rhetoric by saying that is a pre-school as to the importance but if you dig deeper it gets even more funny.

2005:
He has a point with Nash but the 05 race between him and Shaq was as close as it can get > Steve Nash got 65 first place votes for a total of 1066 and Shaq had 58 first place votes for a total of 1032. Both guys were on new teams and led their teams to drastic improvements from the prior year:
- Nash led his team to 33 game improvement(29 > 62) and from 21st to 1st in ORTG and 24th to 17th in DRTG
- Shaq led his team to a 17 game improvement(42 > 59) and 15th to 10th in ORTG and 9th to 6th in DRTG

2006:
It wasn't even close. Nash got 57 first team votes with 924 overall and the second leading candidate was a 21yo LeBron James with 16 first team votes and 688 in total. The whole Kobe revisionist history is funny considering he was 4th behind Dirk.
- With it being so long ago, many people(including myself) forget that the big reason Nash won again was because he kept his team afloat with 59 wins despite losing Amare to microfracture surgery after 3 games... Nash picked up the scoring and completed his first 50/40/90 season.

2007:
Dirk actually finished 11th behind TMac but actually tied him with an average of 24.6. He lost out on a few percentage points man to be top 10 lol. The Mavs finished with 67 wins...

2021:
Jokic finished 12th in scoring but was in a 3-way tie for 26.4ppg behind Tatum and Mitchell. The guy had near clean sweep with 91 first place votes. Embiid did finish second, but Jokic had almost double the total points and Embiid only had 1 first place vote

2022:
Jokic actually finished 6th in scoring @ 27.1ppg and had 65 first place votes vs Embiid's 26. Honestly this was a year where not only did his production lead the way but he won primarily because he was ungoldy in keeping that Denver team afloat with both Murray missing the entire season and Porter only playing 9 games.

[Dirk]

I blame Lebron for Kendrick Perkins comments as well.

It's obvious that Lebron is a direct link to Perkins, so his comments are somewhat coming from Lebron indirectly.

Is this an act or are we supposed to think you genuinely believe you blame Lebron for all sorts of things?

[levon]

US society has zero tolerance for racism with white folk and Perkins should be held accountable to same standards. Downplaying racism is unacceptable and if you do that, you are applying different standards based on race.

But only White people can be racist. Everyone can be prejudice but only White people can be racist because prejudice plus power = racism.

Slash Green Font

I understand there are advantages and disadvantages between different groups but I never truly understood this very popular re-definition of the term and I’m not even White.

If you think about it, the whole "racism = prejudice + power" argument is a giant racist mind ****. It actually does the opposite of fighting racism by literally treating white people as above non-white people (the whole punching up vs. punching down argument). And nowhere does it leave any room for any criteria of when non-white people will have a similar amount of power as white people. The idea that an average working white guy somehow has more power than the average non-white person is not based in reality.

In the USA the most powerful people are almost exclusively white, and that needs to change. But somehow the progressive media has convinced the youth that if they racially discriminate against their white neighbors who hold no institutional power, that somehow will end racism. The people at the top are laughing at all of you.

There is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in this post. You're not giving the youth of America enough credit--young people today are the most educated about the workings of systemic racism than they've ever been. Gen Z is also voting and signaling a desire to vote at a higher rate than previous generations, which hopefully we can both agree is a positive no matter where you fall politically. Further, today, non-white kids and families value higher education more than white families (I can find this poll for you if you like). They recognize education as the only way to build capital and literally live somewhat comfortably, facing economic challenges that prior generations have not faced, worsened even further by the 2008 crash and Covid.

Being prejudiced to your white neighbors solely on the basis of them being white is a problem. The bigger problem? The mechanisms that keep white people in power are continuously reinforced by their average white neighbors, are they not? Which forces are actively, overtly trying to slow minorities from voting, or slowly ascending to said positions of power? Do white men not constitute the majority of the people supporting those forces, despite almost all of them being powerless themselves, according to countless polls and exit polls?

There is no real way to linearize and deterministically prioritize every ailment of our society, but there should be ways to at least loosely achieve consensus on what the most important issues are today. I can confidently say that prejudice against white people isn't the biggest problem in our society, despite how hard the trash peddlers try to convince you otherwise.

In fact, I'm not sure it even registers in the top 10. Check this Pew poll https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/11/03/key-facts-about-u-s-voter-priorities-ahead-of-the-2022-midterm-elections/ Racism checks in as Issue #15, and I'm not sure if it's even top 10 for Democrats.

[Mickey8]

I think its much deeper than just white players doing good against black players. Its euro white players who are taking the jobs and the awards from the black american players.

Perhaps the American players should treat the regular season more seriously then.

Perhaps they shouldn't gang up with each others ,(american superstars) taking the shortcuts to the championships and instead trying to win the title organically

[Lockdown504090]

US society has zero tolerance for racism with white folk and Perkins should be held accountable to same standards. Downplaying racism is unacceptable and if you do that, you are applying different standards based on race.

LMAOOOOOOOOO my experiences living in the US paint a much different opinon. Maybe on twitter that might be true. I agree though, perkins made a seriously bigoted statement and then doubled down on it. It blows my mind that all these white guys that cover the nba arent up in arms talking about this and this is the first person to condemn him for it. It blows my mind that nobody has asked jokic about this, white people ignore this, and for that matter the only black people that talk about it try to play both sides.

ive tried to listen to him and understand and see if theres a broader point, but there isnt. all these ppl who were kneeling over racism, criticizing trump for saying bigoted crap, not a peep about the guy in their actual community.

[sasquatchBob]

If Perkins was white saying this about black players, he would be fired immediatly. Double standards...

[Wolfgang630]

I think it does say something that ESPN will not upload the segment on YouTube.

[Michael Jackson]

Man I thought this was him being angry about none of them being American's.... I was way off.

[maxpower8888]

But only White people can be racist. Everyone can be prejudice but only White people can be racist because prejudice plus power = racism.

Slash Green Font

I understand there are advantages and disadvantages between different groups but I never truly understood this very popular re-definition of the term and I’m not even White.

If you think about it, the whole "racism = prejudice + power" argument is a giant racist mind ****. It actually does the opposite of fighting racism by literally treating white people as above non-white people (the whole punching up vs. punching down argument). And nowhere does it leave any room for any criteria of when non-white people will have a similar amount of power as white people. The idea that an average working white guy somehow has more power than the average non-white person is not based in reality.

In the USA the most powerful people are almost exclusively white, and that needs to change. But somehow the progressive media has convinced the youth that if they racially discriminate against their white neighbors who hold no institutional power, that somehow will end racism. The people at the top are laughing at all of you.

There is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in this post. You're not giving the youth of America enough credit--young people today are the most educated about the workings of systemic racism than they've ever been. Gen Z is also voting and signaling a desire to vote at a higher rate than previous generations, which hopefully we can both agree is a positive no matter where you fall politically. Further, today, non-white kids and families value higher education more than white families (I can find this poll for you if you like). They recognize education as the only way to build capital and literally live somewhat comfortably, facing economic challenges that prior generations have not faced, worsened even further by the 2008 crash and Covid.

Being prejudiced to your white neighbors solely on the basis of them being white is a problem. The bigger problem? The mechanisms that keep white people in power are continuously reinforced by their average white neighbors, are they not? Which forces are actively, overtly trying to slow minorities from voting, or slowly ascending to said positions of power? Do white men not constitute the majority of the people supporting those forces, despite almost all of them being powerless themselves, according to countless polls and exit polls?

There is no real way to linearize and deterministically prioritize every ailment of our society, but there should be ways to at least loosely achieve consensus on what the most important issues are today. I can confidently say that prejudice against white people isn't the biggest problem in our society, despite how hard the trash peddlers try to convince you otherwise.

In fact, I'm not sure it even registers in the top 10. Check this Pew poll https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/11/03/key-facts-about-u-s-voter-priorities-ahead-of-the-2022-midterm-elections/ Racism checks in as Issue #15, and I'm not sure if it's even top 10 for Democrats.

I am not confused in my post, I agree with most of what you said, but I take issue with what I have in bold.

1) The average white man does not vote to try to stop minorities from gaining power or voting. The enemies of minorities are the super-wealthy (who as I said earlier are predominantly white). There are forces at play that do that, but the vast majority of those are people whos net worth is $100 mill+, it's the people who benefit from the status quo. So when young people are being taught that "whiteness" needs to be dismantled, rather than the hoarding of wealth, they're essentially being fooled. There is absolutely no racial problem that will be solved by making it ok to be racially prejudice against white people, the only thing it will do is make white people (who over the course of decades have been progressively getting less and less racist) become more racist.

2) Being racist against white people does not need to be the biggest issue for it to be an issue. But we can see how the prejudice is playing out when "Can you be racist against white people?" is an actual serious discussion being had rather than just having a simple answer "Yes." If the racism black people experience is the equivalent of a punch in the face, and the racism white people experience is the equivalent of a slap, well it still doesn't feel good to get slapped, even if it's not as bad as a punch, especially when you did nothing to deserve it.

Young people despite having access to countless more resources than we did when we were young, are still young people, and they're more prone to being emotionally manipulated. And they're being bombarded left and right by this messaging, and then those young people grow up and believe the problem is worse than it is.

There is less institutional racism today than there was 10 years ago, and yet there is more racial tension than there was 10 years ago.

[KyRo23]

Perk's reasoning is kind of contradictory.

First he says to JJ, "How do you know Jokic is not stat padding? You don't know what another man is thinking"

but he is so sure that white voters are voting for white players... without actually know what those people are thinking.

[NBA4Lyfe]

I think its much deeper than just white players doing good against black players. Its euro white players who are taking the jobs and the awards from the black american players.

Perhaps the American players should treat the regular season more seriously then.

this

and there are tons of european players overseas that will happily fill in and play every game on the average nba salary. If the players try cry and whine during the upcoming cba negoations about guareneteed guarenteed contracts. Blame kyrie irving and ja morant

[Mickey8]

You didn't understand purpose of his post or you are playing dumb. And yes american players are taking seriously regular season, that's were stat padding happens, just look at Lebron as an example this season .

[levon]

If you think about it, the whole "racism = prejudice + power" argument is a giant racist mind ****. It actually does the opposite of fighting racism by literally treating white people as above non-white people (the whole punching up vs. punching down argument). And nowhere does it leave any room for any criteria of when non-white people will have a similar amount of power as white people. The idea that an average working white guy somehow has more power than the average non-white person is not based in reality.

In the USA the most powerful people are almost exclusively white, and that needs to change. But somehow the progressive media has convinced the youth that if they racially discriminate against their white neighbors who hold no institutional power, that somehow will end racism. The people at the top are laughing at all of you.

There is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in this post. You're not giving the youth of America enough credit--young people today are the most educated about the workings of systemic racism than they've ever been. Gen Z is also voting and signaling a desire to vote at a higher rate than previous generations, which hopefully we can both agree is a positive no matter where you fall politically. Further, today, non-white kids and families value higher education more than white families (I can find this poll for you if you like). They recognize education as the only way to build capital and literally live somewhat comfortably, facing economic challenges that prior generations have not faced, worsened even further by the 2008 crash and Covid.

Being prejudiced to your white neighbors solely on the basis of them being white is a problem. The bigger problem? The mechanisms that keep white people in power are continuously reinforced by their average white neighbors, are they not? Which forces are actively, overtly trying to slow minorities from voting, or slowly ascending to said positions of power? Do white men not constitute the majority of the people supporting those forces, despite almost all of them being powerless themselves, according to countless polls and exit polls?

There is no real way to linearize and deterministically prioritize every ailment of our society, but there should be ways to at least loosely achieve consensus on what the most important issues are today. I can confidently say that prejudice against white people isn't the biggest problem in our society, despite how hard the trash peddlers try to convince you otherwise.

In fact, I'm not sure it even registers in the top 10. Check this Pew poll https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/11/03/key-facts-about-u-s-voter-priorities-ahead-of-the-2022-midterm-elections/ Racism checks in as Issue #15, and I'm not sure if it's even top 10 for Democrats.

I am not confused in my post, I agree with most of what you said, but I take issue with what I have in bold.

1) The average white man does not vote to try to stop minorities from gaining power or voting. The enemies of minorities are the super-wealthy (who as I said earlier are predominantly white). There are forces at play that do that, but the vast majority of those are people whos net worth is $100 mill+, it's the people who benefit from the status quo. So when young people are being taught that "whiteness" needs to be dismantled, rather than the hoarding of wealth, they're essentially being fooled. There is absolutely no racial problem that will be solved by making it ok to be racially prejudice against white people, the only thing it will do is make white people (who over the course of decades have been progressively getting less and less racist) become more racist.

2) Being racist against white people does not need to be the biggest issue for it to be an issue. But we can see how the prejudice is playing out when "Can you be racist against white people?" is an actual serious discussion being had rather than just having a simple answer "Yes." If the racism black people experience is the equivalent of a punch in the face, and the racism white people experience is the equivalent of a slap, well it still doesn't feel good to get slapped, even if it's not as bad as a punch, especially when you did nothing to deserve it.

Young people despite having access to countless more resources than we did when we were young, are still young people, and they're more prone to being emotionally manipulated. And they're being bombarded left and right by this messaging, and then those young people grow up and believe the problem is worse than it is.

There is less institutional racism today than there was 10 years ago, and yet there is more racial tension than there was 10 years ago.

On point #1, the majority of people voting (if you believe in voting as an honest signifier) for the policies I'm referencing are white men, usually uneducated. I misspoke as often happens when trying to qualify stats. It's the case that of the people that vote for such policies the plurality (biggest segment) are white, white men, and white uneducated men as you drill down further. That last segment is especially pertinent because it highlights that it's precisely this segment of the powerless that fervently prop up the powerful, evidently on the basis of race (again, if you believe voting has explanatory weight or impact in our society).

On point #2, sure, it doesn't have to be the biggest issue, but we have only have a limited amount of energy and time. As for if it's possible to be racist against white people, the answer is yes -- we've had ample evidence of it in the past, predominantly from other white people. It's perplexing until you realize that whiteness is just a manufactured label, manufactured by white people. Others have been racialized, and to be white is to essentially be of the unracialized group in your society. There are plenty of other societies where a certain segment is afforded outsized power and influence, but their genetic makeup has no relation to Germanic peoples or whatever is the tenuous ethnic origin of American whiteness in 2023. Whiteness is not just a western concept or new concept. But if you prefer to argue that prejudice, wishing harm unto other people, causing violence based on the color of skin falls under the word "racism", I'm not going to disagree with you. It's where people start to equate that-version-of-racism against white people to racism against others. You're going to have to upgrade the latter definition of racism into some other word then or qualify it somehow, because they are not equal, nor have they ever been.

There is less institutional racism today than there was 10 years ago, and yet there is more racial tension than there was 10 years ago.

The economy, and terrible people poisoning our information space both domestically and internationally. Identity-based conflicts decline when people are able to equitably participate in the wealth of their society. If it's failing people across the board, the temperature goes up. Point being, you should levy this same criticism of "we should all be working together to stick it to the powerful" to the powerless white people as well who are playing a disproportionate role in either propping up the old guard, or ushering in deleterious far-right actors.

[OkcSinceSGA]

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[Dominator83]

Think if Trent Dilfer or whatever NFL analyst has said Lamar only won his MVP because he's black.

Well Trent Dilfer is essentially the equivalent of Kendrick Perkins, the Ravens/Celtics were going to win that ring with or without him. But like most of us know, the NFL media is a lot more about the game (draft, free agents, gameplays, etc.) than it is about the drama.

To add to Perkins, OKC probably would have won in 2012 of Brooks did the right thing and benched Perkins and went small to match the Heats lineup

[Duke4life831]

I think it does say something that ESPN will not upload the segment on YouTube.

Yup neither ESPN’s YouTube or First take’s Twitter has posted it. I’ve been one that’s been pretty vocal about saying ESPN is probably loving Perk.

But ya there is a line where the controversial takes go too far and become a bigger distraction. This could be at that moment. Because right now ESPN isn’t doing anything to monetize this, seems like they’re almost hoping to sweep it under the rug.