Kings trade Fox to Spurs, get LaVine

[vincecarter4pres]

IF it does happen I actually think the fit is good. I feel like those criticizing the fit envision Wemby as a paint dominant player but that's just not the case offensively. The vast majority of his shots are jump shots and almost half of his shots are specifically above the break 3's (44% of his shot attempts by shot chart). Only 36% of his attempts are in the paint and 64% are outside the paint and mostly jump shots. He's a perimeter oriented scorer who has the ability to get dunks in transition or off dribble hand-offs/put backs and the occasional one to two dribble finger roll.

A quick downhill player like De'Aaron Fox could in theory take advantage of the spacing and is a good enough playmaker and is just starting his prime. What player would you want to save all your chips for that can consistently put that downhill pressure on the rim? Shai is great at that but he's in a good situation right now. Anthony Edwards has a great first step but he seems like the kind of player that wants to be the alpha 1A option and isn't a great playmaker. Castle has promise but is still so young and highly inefficient. Trae isn't as good an overall player on both ends as Fox imo although he's a very creative playmaker and crafty enough to attack the paint (albeit not with the same downhill force).

The Spurs still aren't quite there yet as a play-in/playoff team but a move like this can help catapult Wemby to get a taste of the postseason and perhaps give some of these teams a run for their money. While it probably costs them at least a couple prospects + picks the Spurs should still have a handful of picks leftover.

Beat me to it. Fox is a wonderful fit there for the reasons you’ve stated. Surround them with two shooters/finishers who are connecting players and can defend at least average and let Castle grow, keep drafting well; and take advantage of Ring chasing free agents and this is instantly and sustainably a strong playoff team and sooner rather than later contender.

[Kineto]

his max is 5/296 if he gets traded and only 4/219 if he signs next season as a FA, his supermax is 5/345. he didn't extend in the summer cuz he was betting on himself to get that All-NBA nod and that supermax, once that flamed out he wants out..

my point is, he wants 5/296 but if a deal doesn't get made and he'll end up leaving in FA, he'll only get 4/219. add that to a change of scenery, going to play in his home state with the the most exciting young player and a generational freak in Wemby, with all the media coverage etc - he'll take a little discount, he's not dumb. maybe it ends up being something like 5/270 which is 54m per, that's not a bad pay day and with the cap projected to go up, shouldn't eat that much of the their future cap in 2 or 3 years

he'll take 5/270 or 5/275 and call it a day imo

he's an all-star caliber guard, in his prime..obviously he expects to get paid and that's about his market value , a top 30 player is a max player basically

Projected cap for 27/28 is 189M. Wemby and Fox would take up 130M with nobody else on the roster. Good luck

If both Wemby and Fox get a max deal at 30% of the salary cap (can one of them get a supermax 35%?), that's 60% of the salary cap (not total payroll) on 2 players.

The 2nd apron is about 130% of the salary cap, so SAS still has 70% of the SC to work with and fill the roster.

[stepic]

I think he’d be a good fit but Spurs are going to potentially have better options down the road. Fox is good but is he the ideal running mate, or just the first star to become available? If I’m Spurs I possibly wait for a better star - there will be plenty of them wanting to team up with Wemby.

[magee]

I think he’d be a good fit but Spurs are going to potentially have better options down the road. Fox is good but is he the ideal running mate, or just the first star to become available? If I’m Spurs I possibly wait for a better star - there will be plenty of them wanting to team up with Wemby.

Fox could be a litmus test for how an archetype PG fits with him.

[hauntedcomputer]

IF it does happen I actually think the fit is good. I feel like those criticizing the fit envision Wemby as a paint dominant player but that's just not the case offensively. The vast majority of his shots are jump shots and almost half of his shots are specifically above the break 3's (44% of his shot attempts by shot chart). Only 36% of his attempts are in the paint and 64% are outside the paint and mostly jump shots. He's a perimeter oriented scorer who has the ability to get dunks in transition or off dribble hand-offs/put backs and the occasional one to two dribble finger roll.

A quick downhill player like De'Aaron Fox could in theory take advantage of the spacing and is a good enough playmaker and is just starting his prime. What player would you want to save all your chips for that can consistently put that downhill pressure on the rim? Shai is great at that but he's in a good situation right now. Anthony Edwards has a great first step but he seems like the kind of player that wants to be the alpha 1A option and isn't a great playmaker. Castle has promise but is still so young and highly inefficient. Trae isn't as good an overall player on both ends as Fox imo although he's a very creative playmaker and crafty enough to attack the paint (albeit not with the same downhill force).

The Spurs still aren't quite there yet as a play-in/playoff team but a move like this can help catapult Wemby to get a taste of the postseason and perhaps give some of these teams a run for their money. While it probably costs them at least a couple prospects + picks the Spurs should still have a handful of picks leftover.

Good take on Wemby. I think Maxey would be a great fit but 76ers are still in a delusional haze a year or two away from Tankland. Maxey's 3pt % would likely go up to its "Healthy Embiid" levels.

If you end up paying Fox $54 million AND give up prospects/picks, you have wasted Wemby's early prime, though. Fox looks better than he is just because he's available. It's not like he was carrying a talented Kings team anywhere (and in fact he may have been the problem all these years, but I guess we will see.) He can finish but he can't shoot and it's not like he's a top-tier passer, either.

His rookie-year stats aren't all that much different than Castle's, actually.

[The-Stallion70]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

[Flash4thewin]

IF it does happen I actually think the fit is good. I feel like those criticizing the fit envision Wemby as a paint dominant player but that's just not the case offensively. The vast majority of his shots are jump shots and almost half of his shots are specifically above the break 3's (44% of his shot attempts by shot chart). Only 36% of his attempts are in the paint and 64% are outside the paint and mostly jump shots. He's a perimeter oriented scorer who has the ability to get dunks in transition or off dribble hand-offs/put backs and the occasional one to two dribble finger roll.

A quick downhill player like De'Aaron Fox could in theory take advantage of the spacing and is a good enough playmaker and is just starting his prime. What player would you want to save all your chips for that can consistently put that downhill pressure on the rim? Shai is great at that but he's in a good situation right now. Anthony Edwards has a great first step but he seems like the kind of player that wants to be the alpha 1A option and isn't a great playmaker. Castle has promise but is still so young and highly inefficient. Trae isn't as good an overall player on both ends as Fox imo although he's a very creative playmaker and crafty enough to attack the paint (albeit not with the same downhill force).

The Spurs still aren't quite there yet as a play-in/playoff team but a move like this can help catapult Wemby to get a taste of the postseason and perhaps give some of these teams a run for their money. While it probably costs them at least a couple prospects + picks the Spurs should still have a handful of picks leftover.

Good take on Wemby. I think Maxey would be a great fit but 76ers are still in a delusional haze a year or two away from Tankland. Maxey's 3pt % would likely go up to its "Healthy Embiid" levels.

If you end up paying Fox $54 million AND give up prospects/picks, you have wasted Wemby's early prime, though. Fox looks better than he is just because he's available. It's not like he was carrying a talented Kings team anywhere (and in fact he may have been the problem all these years, but I guess we will see.) He can finish but he can't shoot and it's not like he's a top-tier passer, either.

His rookie-year stats aren't all that much different than Castle's, actually.

Fox is attractive because he is easier to attain. Maxey would cost Castle and more, they won’t trade him cheaply.

[7seventynine9]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

How is the timeline off? Wemby is ready now. Fox is ready now. They'd have a good 6-8 years together unless Fox ages like Kemba Walker.

Others said the Spurs should wait for a better fit/player, but I think Fox is a great fit. I'm not sure a better player becomes available anytime soon, especially one that is on Wemby's "timeline." There aren't going to be any under 25 year old superstars made available anytime soon. I guess there's Zion, but there's a reason for that.

Who is the better fit that may become available in a year or so? Or do you sit around waiting for 4 years for Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball, Cade Cunningham or some other guy who "fits" the timeline? There are pretty much 0 players who are going to match Wemby's timeline because very few 20 year old guys are positive contributors.

Any superstar that is made available for trade is going to be Fox's age or older. Any star player the Spurs acquire in trade is going to be closing in on their 3rd contract.

Who are the better fits that are actually possibilities? No one can predict the future but Cade, Edwards, LaMelo, Doncic probably aren't going anywhere in the next 4 years.

[Exp0sed]

he's an all-star caliber guard, in his prime..obviously he expects to get paid and that's about his market value , a top 30 player is a max player basically

Projected cap for 27/28 is 189M. Wemby and Fox would take up 130M with nobody else on the roster. Good luck

how is that different from any other serious contender?
your run of the mill contender has a supermax MVP caliber player (hard to win 'chips without one) and at least another "star" on a max contract, usually more than one

in the last couple of years it was AD + LBJ,Jokic + Murray (and MPJ),Tatum + Brown (both of whom are on a supermax, no?) etc.
or a team that didn't win it but was a finalist last season, Luka with the supermax and Kyrie with the regular max - that's the standard for contending teams, so idk why you choose to pick on the Spurs specifically

the supermax not being counted as regular max for the purposes of the salary cap is indeed the most idiotic thing in this current CBA but still, Wemby is a supermax player and yes, to win 'chips he will likely need help in the form of another max player or two

if you have a true MVP caliber player and imo Wemby is already at that level, not at some distant point in the future but rn and you pair him with a top 30 player in Fox, you've already done alot of the work. now you gotta decide if the rest will be split between smaller contracts and thus have more depth or going the three stars route. don't forget Wemby has become that good so soon, they actually have an intresting window before his extention actually kicks in. it'd be foolish wasting that window...

when you catch a lucky break you should go for it. take OKC for example, pretty soon they won't be able to afford all their guys. J-Dub is making like 5M this season and Chet makes like 11M....ofc they're young but by the time they won't be that young - they wouldn't be able to afford all their main players, they should go all in imo, strike the iron while it's hot

Wemby and Fox with a bit of retooling around them will easily be a 55 wins team next season with HCA in the West

[Richard4444]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

It's not so easy to get a top Point Guard. Specially, for no-tanking teams. It took 15 years for the Knicks to find one.

We have only a few better options than Fox. And most of them will not move anytime soon.

Shai: contending in the best team in the West
Doncic: He was in the final last season.
Brunson: Too old and I bet he will stay in the Knicks.
Morant: Locked until 2028. He is in a dark horse contender team. Often injured and has questionable ethics.
Cade: Just signed a long contract and Detroit is improving fast.
Haliburton: Just signed a long contract and Indiana is improving.
Garland: He is in the best team in the East.
Jamal: As old as Fox, in a contender team. And less consistent than Fox.
Maxey Just signed a long contract and the Sixers should not look to trade him.
LaMello Maybe he becomes available. But his injuries are scarry.

[Sactowndog]

Yeah but if the Spurs **** around and cost him his extra money they could well piss him off and lose him to the Lakers.

I mean, if he’s just using the Spurs to get his max money and doesn’t really care about being in San Antonio, I think most Spurs fans would be fine with it.
In fact I think most of would prefer he didn’t come to San Antonio if that’s the case.

I mean $70M is a LOT of money to ask a guy to leave in his prime. We're not the only ones who could afford it. He wants us. Feels like there's some middle ground that could be had. We've wanted him for a while it's been reported so mutual interest and its extension ramifications have surely been discussed and prepared for.

Exactly it’s also an ego thing. Spurs have the chance to get him now but if they F around too much and don’t offer a reasonable deal they could find themselves pissing Fox off.

[eric365]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

It's not so easy to get a top Point Guard. Specially, for no-tanking teams. It took 15 years for the Knicks to find one.

We have only a few better options than Fox. And most of them will not move anytime soon.

Shai: contending in the best team in the West
Doncic: He was in the final last season.
Brunson: Too old and I bet he will stay in the Knicks.
Morant: Locked until 2028. He is in a dark horse contender team. Often injured and has questionable ethics.
Cade: Just signed a long contract and Detroit is improving fast.
Haliburton: Just signed a long contract and Indiana is improving.
Garland: He is in the best team in the East.
Jamal: As old as Fox, in a contender team. And less consistent than Fox.
Maxey Just signed a long contract and the Sixers should not look to trade him.
LaMello Maybe he becomes available. But his injuries are scarry.

Spurs don’t need a top point guard at all cost. It could be a top SG or SF as long as he can create and shoot

[vincecarter4pres]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

It's not so easy to get a top Point Guard. Specially, for no-tanking teams. It took 15 years for the Knicks to find one.

We have only a few better options than Fox. And most of them will not move anytime soon.

Shai: contending in the best team in the West
Doncic: He was in the final last season.
Brunson: Too old and I bet he will stay in the Knicks.
Morant: Locked until 2028. He is in a dark horse contender team. Often injured and has questionable ethics.
Cade: Just signed a long contract and Detroit is improving fast.
Haliburton: Just signed a long contract and Indiana is improving.
Garland: He is in the best team in the East.
Jamal: As old as Fox, in a contender team. And less consistent than Fox.
Maxey Just signed a long contract and the Sixers should not look to trade him.
LaMello Maybe he becomes available. But his injuries are scarry.

Spurs don’t need a top point guard at all cost. It could be a top SG or SF as long as he can create and shoot

Well good thing it isn’t at all costs.

[Exp0sed]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

Spurs don’t need a top point guard at all cost. It could be a top SG or SF as long as he can create and shoot

I mean, Fox is a top 30 player and an all-star caliber guard so that's what he costs - a max

[Richard4444]

Fox's timeline is wayy off of Wemby. Wemby is honestly so good that he may be able to uplift the Spurs on his own, I'd still be patient with him to see how far he goes, he's 25 and 11 on 60ts% in year 2 for **** sakes.

It's not so easy to get a top Point Guard. Specially, for no-tanking teams. It took 15 years for the Knicks to find one.

We have only a few better options than Fox. And most of them will not move anytime soon.

Shai: contending in the best team in the West
Doncic: He was in the final last season.
Brunson: Too old and I bet he will stay in the Knicks.
Morant: Locked until 2028. He is in a dark horse contender team. Often injured and has questionable ethics.
Cade: Just signed a long contract and Detroit is improving fast.
Haliburton: Just signed a long contract and Indiana is improving.
Garland: He is in the best team in the East.
Jamal: As old as Fox, in a contender team. And less consistent than Fox.
Maxey Just signed a long contract and the Sixers should not look to trade him.
LaMello Maybe he becomes available. But his injuries are scarry.

Spurs don’t need a top point guard at all cost. It could be a top SG or SF as long as he can create and shoot

SG and SF who can create and shoot are fewer and even more hard to become available anytime soon.

Tatum: Best player from the defending champions.
Anthony Edwards: Locked until 2027. Can get a huge contract if he stays. Everybody will want him if he is leaving.
Donovan Mitchell Best player of the best team in NBA. And Older than Fox.
Booker: Older than Fox. Locked until 2028 and the Suns should not give up anytime soon after going all-in.
Brown: Older than Fox. He is in a down year. He can be traded due to payroll concerns. But he already earns an astronomical salary and he may not be as good as Fox.
Banchero: He will sign a long contract next season for sure and the team is ascending,
Franz Wagner Just signed a long contract and he is in an ascending team.
Jalen Williams He will sign a long contract and he plays in the best Western team.
Zion: Too risky

[G R E Y]

I mean, if he’s just using the Spurs to get his max money and doesn’t really care about being in San Antonio, I think most Spurs fans would be fine with it.
In fact I think most of would prefer he didn’t come to San Antonio if that’s the case.

I mean $70M is a LOT of money to ask a guy to leave in his prime. We're not the only ones who could afford it. He wants us. Feels like there's some middle ground that could be had. We've wanted him for a while it's been reported so mutual interest and its extension ramifications have surely been discussed and prepared for.

why 70M? i suggested he'd take something like 270 instead of 296, that's 25M over 5 years....

Trade now and extend vs. UFA eligibility is 5 vs 4 years and lower per year makes it about a $70M difference.

Edit, found it

Read on Twitter

[G R E Y]

I mean, if he’s just using the Spurs to get his max money and doesn’t really care about being in San Antonio, I think most Spurs fans would be fine with it.
In fact I think most of would prefer he didn’t come to San Antonio if that’s the case.

I mean $70M is a LOT of money to ask a guy to leave in his prime. We're not the only ones who could afford it. He wants us. Feels like there's some middle ground that could be had. We've wanted him for a while it's been reported so mutual interest and its extension ramifications have surely been discussed and prepared for.

Exactly it’s also an ego thing. Spurs have the chance to get him now but if they F around too much and don’t offer a reasonable deal they could find themselves pissing Fox off.

I think the tweet about SAC targeting two win now players or second best is one such and picks is important info. It depends on what assets a team wants in its growth timeline. It's why this has opened up to at least a 4 team deal. Sac likes other teams' win now players more and we have incentives to facilitate. SIX teams is 20% of the league lol. I wonder what the record is for number of teams in a trade. So it sounds like hard work is being done to get teams what they want.

[7seventynine9]

I mean $70M is a LOT of money to ask a guy to leave in his prime. We're not the only ones who could afford it. He wants us. Feels like there's some middle ground that could be had. We've wanted him for a while it's been reported so mutual interest and its extension ramifications have surely been discussed and prepared for.

Exactly it’s also an ego thing. Spurs have the chance to get him now but if they F around too much and don’t offer a reasonable deal they could find themselves pissing Fox off.

I think the tweet about SAC targeting two win now players or second best is one such and picks is important info. It depends on what assets a team wants in its growth timeline. It's why this has opened up to at least a 4 team deal. Sac likes other teams' win now players more and we have incentives to facilitate. SIX teams is 20% of the league lol. I wonder what the record is for number of teams in a trade. So it sounds like hard work is being done to get teams what they want.

Yeah, if the Kings are looking to compete, they could potentially turn Fox into something like LaVine and Cam Johnson, which would involve 4 teams right there.

[The Master]

IF it does happen I actually think the fit is good. I feel like those criticizing the fit envision Wemby as a paint dominant player but that's just not the case offensively.

Fox being a decent slasher is fitting with Wemby well.

The problem with Fox is that the better you are as a team, the more versatility you need from your players. Fox is very streaky as a spot up shooter, he's not the greatest playmaker, he's not impactful as a defender either - and the biggest issue with Spurs youngsters is that they can't efficiently shoot from distance. You also expect regardless of his style of play from Wemby to become a ~30ppg scorer one day - and to do so he needs elite playmaker and decent spot up shooters around: Fox isn't any of these two.

So yeah, there's a partial synergy, especially now (Fox being on-ball scorer/driver and Wemby being a perimeter C/spot up shooter), but there are several question marks long term - overall this is not bad, but still suboptimal fit. If you limit Fox to 21-5-5 type of volume, he just doesn't give you elite spot up shooting and/or elite scoring and/or defense, as he's more a bit of everything type of allstar offensively.

And that ignoring whether Fox is actually good enough to play Robin type of role.

[Marvin Martian]

IF it does happen I actually think the fit is good. I feel like those criticizing the fit envision Wemby as a paint dominant player but that's just not the case offensively. The vast majority of his shots are jump shots and almost half of his shots are specifically above the break 3's (44% of his shot attempts by shot chart). Only 36% of his attempts are in the paint and 64% are outside the paint and mostly jump shots. He's a perimeter oriented scorer who has the ability to get dunks in transition or off dribble hand-offs/put backs and the occasional one to two dribble finger roll.

A quick downhill player like De'Aaron Fox could in theory take advantage of the spacing and is a good enough playmaker and is just starting his prime. What player would you want to save all your chips for that can consistently put that downhill pressure on the rim? Shai is great at that but he's in a good situation right now. Anthony Edwards has a great first step but he seems like the kind of player that wants to be the alpha 1A option and isn't a great playmaker. Castle has promise but is still so young and highly inefficient. Trae isn't as good an overall player on both ends as Fox imo although he's a very creative playmaker and crafty enough to attack the paint (albeit not with the same downhill force).

The Spurs still aren't quite there yet as a play-in/playoff team but a move like this can help catapult Wemby to get a taste of the postseason and perhaps give some of these teams a run for their money. While it probably costs them at least a couple prospects + picks the Spurs should still have a handful of picks leftover.

Zion can do what you want Fox to do. He is a much better downhill player and can make plays for others. Plus he can catch lobs from Wemby and play spot minutes at C when Wemby sits which is a huge weakness for the Spurs. He is the perfect fit for them