The 'Jokic has no help' narrative sure came and went

[DimesandKnicks]

Can yall tell me what makes Luka Doncic a bad defender despite being a great defensive rebounder and among the leaders in steals?

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

[dhsilv2]

These standards that you have to conjure up to pretend Jokic is a good defender are truly pathetic

You're literally ignoring every single piece of data there is to argue a point you can't even explain.

Think about everything we've covered.

We've basically covered every aspect of defense and all you can come back with is "but rim protection". Meanwhile Jokic literally prevents 6+ plays a game from ever getting to the rim.

Again, this gos for you too tsherkin:

Rim protection
Post defense
Defending in space

And I really can’t for the life of me understanding how you all can completely ignore that rim protection is easily the most important thing you want from your Center and not actually trying contest shots is a great way to boost your rebounding

1. NOBODY is ignoring his rim protection. If we were, we'd be saying he's a good defender.
2. Teams don't even always play a center. This positional stuff you keep doing isn't a good argument for you.

Meanwhile you refuse to look at the value of Jokic constantly being involved on defense and putting in effort.

If any other player challenge 20 shots a game, broke up 6+ plays a game (steals, deflection, kicked balls), and dominated the defensive boards we'd be talking about them for DPOY. Instead because Jokic is a bad (not as bad as you're making it) rim protector and lacks mobility against small guards. He's an average defender.

[dhsilv2]

Can yall tell me what makes Luka Doncic a bad defender despite being a great defensive rebounder and among the leaders in steals?

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

He does contest shots at the rim...he's not effective at it. But again he does it.

[DimesandKnicks]

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

He does contest shots at the rim...he's not effective at it. But again he does it.

He isn’t effective because he doesn’t jump or even raise his hands. Not jumping puts him in great position to secure a rebound.

When a player does not attempt to contest a shot at the rim, I’m going to frame it as he does not contest shots at the rim. is that fair?

[DimesandKnicks]

There’s a difference between being their to contest a shot and actually contesting the shot

[7seventynine9]

Can yall tell me what makes Luka Doncic a bad defender despite being a great defensive rebounder and among the leaders in steals?

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

I don't disagree. I'd call his defense passable. It doesn't look like Denver cares to address it though, as his weaknesses are even more exposed in Denver with the players around him. The GM assumes rightly or wrongly that sacraficing in other areas of the game for rim protection isn't worth it. Rim protection alone isn't super hard to find, but to find rim protection from a non C who also fits into your scheme is another matter. Oddly enough, they may already have one in Peyton Watson.

It is really hard to build a good defense around a center who is bad at rim protection. It'll be interesting to see how Peyton Watson develops, though. He could be a very important piece in Denver the next few years.

[dhsilv2]

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

He does contest shots at the rim...he's not effective at it. But again he does it.

He isn’t effective because he doesn’t jump or even raise his hands. Not jumping puts him in great position to secure a rebound.

When a player does not attempt to contest a shot at the rim, I’m going to frame it as he does not contest shots at the rim. is that fair?

No it isn't because being there reduces people's field goal percentages. His large body and frame similarly makes them often jump early or shoot vs laying it in.

You list guys like Drummond as better defenders. The difference again is that Jokic is actually involved in the play. There's a reason Jokic is like 8th among "centers" in distance traveled per game on defense. He might be slow but he's constantly moving.

You asked earlier why Jokic is a better defender than Luka. We can get into a tone of things but lets start with Jokic despite playing drop coverage as a big man, still moves about 5% more than Luka who's being asked to guard the wings. So yeah...part of it is also that Jokic is actually putting in effort. It's just seemingly not the effort you value which is a you thing.

[DimesandKnicks]

He does contest shots at the rim...he's not effective at it. But again he does it.

He isn’t effective because he doesn’t jump or even raise his hands. Not jumping puts him in great position to secure a rebound.

When a player does not attempt to contest a shot at the rim, I’m going to frame it as he does not contest shots at the rim. is that fair?

No it isn't because being there reduces people's field goal percentages. His large body and frame similarly makes them often jump early or shoot vs laying it in.

You list guys like Drummond as better defenders. The difference again is that Jokic is actually involved in the play. There's a reason Jokic is like 8th among "centers" in distance traveled per game on defense. He might be slow but he's constantly moving.

You asked earlier why Jokic is a better defender than Luka. We can get into a tone of things but lets start with Jokic despite playing drop coverage as a big man, still moves about 5% more than Luka who's being asked to guard the wings. So yeah...part of it is also that Jokic is actually putting in effort. It's just seemingly not the effort you value which is a you thing.

Read on Twitter

/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1634568492660948993&currentTweetUser=TheDunkCentral

[DimesandKnicks]

This is the guy who’s defense you’re defending, his defense is embarrassing and a lot of it is simply effort

[DimesandKnicks]

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

I don't disagree. I'd call his defense passable. It doesn't look like Denver cares to address it though, as his weaknesses are even more exposed in Denver with the players around him. The GM assumes rightly or wrongly that sacraficing in other areas of the game for rim protection isn't worth it. Rim protection alone isn't super hard to find, but to find rim protection from a non C who also fits into your scheme is another matter. Oddly enough, they may already have one in Peyton Watson.

It is really hard to build a good defense around a center who is bad at rim protection. It'll be interesting to see how Peyton Watson develops, though. He could be a very important piece in Denver the next few years.

Agreed. Idt Jokic actually needs another reliable 20 ppg score on his team. When you have a great offensive player who isn’t a good defender you surround him with defenders. Like the Knicks in 12-13, Dirk with his championship run. The issue with Jokic is he is playing in a small ball era sure Tyson Chandler can guard Porzingis while but now Jokic has to guard Taytum. It’s harder the put together a too 5 defense with a C who is bad at doing his job

[dhsilv2]

There’s a difference between being their to contest a shot and actually contesting the shot

There is...and we've covered it here. It's a few percentage points better shooting.

In just total Jokic defends 20 shots a game and guys shoot 0.5% worse against him. For Gobert it's 3% worse. That's not a small thing. That's a full point per game, not even per 100. That's 1.33 points per 100 that Jokic gives up from that alone.

But we're talking about Gobert.

And there's more to why Gobert is better than Jokic. But the way you're bill Jokic has this terrible defender doesn't show in the stats.

[DimesandKnicks]

There’s a difference between being their to contest a shot and actually contesting the shot

There is...and we've covered it here. It's a few percentage points better shooting.

In just total Jokic defends 20 shots a game and guys shoot 0.5% worse against him. For Gobert it's 3% worse. That's not a small thing. That's a full point per game, not even per 100. That's 1.33 points per 100 that Jokic gives up from that alone.

But we're talking about Gobert.

And there's more to why Gobert is better than Jokic. But the way you're bill Jokic has this terrible defender doesn't show in the stats.

It shows in the tape and a lot of the stats

Read on Twitter

/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1634568492660948993&currentTweetUser=TheDunkCentral

Being there versus contesting. Keep defending this bull

[dhsilv2]

He isn’t effective because he doesn’t jump or even raise his hands. Not jumping puts him in great position to secure a rebound.

When a player does not attempt to contest a shot at the rim, I’m going to frame it as he does not contest shots at the rim. is that fair?

No it isn't because being there reduces people's field goal percentages. His large body and frame similarly makes them often jump early or shoot vs laying it in.

You list guys like Drummond as better defenders. The difference again is that Jokic is actually involved in the play. There's a reason Jokic is like 8th among "centers" in distance traveled per game on defense. He might be slow but he's constantly moving.

You asked earlier why Jokic is a better defender than Luka. We can get into a tone of things but lets start with Jokic despite playing drop coverage as a big man, still moves about 5% more than Luka who's being asked to guard the wings. So yeah...part of it is also that Jokic is actually putting in effort. It's just seemingly not the effort you value which is a you thing.

tweet

Who posts a video showing only makes and none of the misses? Just dishonest but it's from twitter. But yes, if a team allows Jokic to defend 30+ shots in a game...the entire defense has broken down everywhere imaginable. That said half those plays were fairly well defended. This is like the horrible Gobert playoff videos that we have to rip to shreds every single year.

[dhsilv2]

There’s a difference between being their to contest a shot and actually contesting the shot

There is...and we've covered it here. It's a few percentage points better shooting.

In just total Jokic defends 20 shots a game and guys shoot 0.5% worse against him. For Gobert it's 3% worse. That's not a small thing. That's a full point per game, not even per 100. That's 1.33 points per 100 that Jokic gives up from that alone.

But we're talking about Gobert.

And there's more to why Gobert is better than Jokic. But the way you're bill Jokic has this terrible defender doesn't show in the stats.

It shows in the tape and a lot of the stats

Being there versus contesting. Keep defending this bull

I've asked you to quantify it for it multiple times. We've all provided plenty of not just opinions, video break downs, but numbers. You still can't show the impact in such a way to argue your point.

[dhsilv2]

This is the guy who’s defense you’re defending, his defense is embarrassing and a lot of it is simply effort

This is where you're losing any credibility. Jokic is NOT low effort on defense. This is just a flat out false statement.

[DimesandKnicks]

This is the guy who’s defense you’re defending, his defense is embarrassing and a lot of it is simply effort

This is where you're losing any credibility. Jokic is NOT low effort on defense. This is just a flat out false statement.

U got it bro, I’m going to enjoy the rest of my day off

[Optms]

When it comes to rim protection, AG is the tallest PF that Jok has ever had and he is 6'8''. He has never had any help that side

He literally is the center. What help does Wemby have? He doesn't need it because Wemby is the anchor. We don't make these type of excuses for any other player. The excuses for Jokic being molasses inside are insane.

He was cooked by Rudy 'Olajuwon' Gobert in the low post last year while getting eliminated. That's all we need to know.

When it comes to rim protection, AG is the tallest PF that Jok has ever had and he is 6'8''. He has never had any help that side.

Not sure what Wemby or Rudy have to do with what I said??

What does Gordon have to do with getting cooked in the low post or getting blown by if you're the starting center of the Nuggets? You're just making excuses for Jokic being an unreliable defender. Aaron Gordon isn't the problem here.

[KGtabake]

Your bias is showing.

Odom and caron>>>Ilgauskas.

Odom was a 19/10/5 guy in the playoffs.

Cut it out.

Ilgauskas was an all star, Odom was not.
Go to sleep.

So your view of players only goes as far (in conferences of difference strenght mind you) as media votes go? What happened to having own opinions

I gave my opinion, he didn't like it and started talking about bias out of nowhere (I'm not even a lakers -kobe fan).
I don't have anything else to say to him nor i care to quote him again.

[AleksandarN]

Can yall tell me what makes Luka Doncic a bad defender despite being a great defensive rebounder and among the leaders in steals?

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a good rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

Jokic is a “good” rebounder? Even then you minimize his strengths. Jokic is an elite rebounder not good, elite. It hilarious the subtle lengths you go to. Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

[DimesandKnicks]

Not specifcally about Luka, but rebounds are more of a team scheme thing and sometimes high steal totals means the player is just gambling. If they don't get the steal, the player blows right by them for an easy 2.

I understand that context perfectly, which is why while Jokic is a great* rebounder the fact that he doesn’t contest shots at the rim takes some of that shine off

Jokic is a “good” rebounder? Even then you minimize his strengths. Jokic is an elite rebounder not good elite. It hilarious the subtle lengths you go to. Intellectual dishonesty at its finest at its finest

I fixed it for you. You’re making me feel really pretty