Do you consider Jordans Bulls a Super Team?

[Yank3525]

They weren't.

They were pretty much the standard championship team (Two All-stars, and a bunch of role players). They weren't that different Shaq/Kobe Lakers or the LeBron/AD Lakers.

There’s essentially no argument that any Jordan Bulls supporting cast was as good as that 1994 team, except maybe the 72-win GOAT 1996 team (and even that is dubious and requires thinking Harper was substantially better than 1994 Armstrong)

Yup. I always felt that the 1994 team with MJ would have been the best Bulls team without questions. You basicaly get 96's team with Horace and BJ, who was better then Rodman and Harper. Plus you would have 1994 MJ who much closer to peak MJ then 1996 MJ was.

[ScrantonBulls]

They weren't.

They were pretty much the standard championship team (Two All-stars, and a bunch of role players). They weren't that different Shaq/Kobe Lakers or the LeBron/AD Lakers.

1996 Bulls
-MVP of the year
-Coach of the year
-Scoring champ
-Rebounding champ
-2 All-NBA 1st team
-3 All-defensive 1st team
-6th man of the year
-2nd best 3-point shooter
-DPOY runner-up
-2 players in Top 5 in MVP voting

Standard championship team right there.

[Yank3525]

They weren't.

They were pretty much the standard championship team (Two All-stars, and a bunch of role players). They weren't that different Shaq/Kobe Lakers or the LeBron/AD Lakers.

1996 Bulls
-MVP of the year
-Coach of the year
-Scoring champ
-Rebounding champ
-2 All-NBA 1st team
-3 All-defensive 1st team
-6th man of the year
-2nd best 3-point shooter
-DPOY runner-up
-2 players in Top 5 in MVP voting

Standard championship team right there.

By this criteria the 2001 Sixers were a Super Team.

[ScrantonBulls]

They weren't.

They were pretty much the standard championship team (Two All-stars, and a bunch of role players). They weren't that different Shaq/Kobe Lakers or the LeBron/AD Lakers.

1996 Bulls
-MVP of the year
-Coach of the year
-Scoring champ
-Rebounding champ
-2 All-NBA 1st team
-3 All-defensive 1st team
-6th man of the year
-2nd best 3-point shooter
-DPOY runner-up
-2 players in Top 5 in MVP voting

Standard championship team right there.

By this criteria the 2001 Sixers were a Super Team.

How many all-NBA 1st team players did they have?
How many all-defensive 1st team players did they have?

[QMemphis]

Surely 08 celts would count right? They had multiple #1 options of playoff teams and that didnt include rondo, who made the all star team playing with them.

Most don’t remember how that team came to fruition. KG, Ray and Paul were all leading their respective teams to the lottery not playoffs.

The Celtics sucked traded their lotto Jeff Green to Seattle

Seattle also sucked they drafted KD

Timberwolves sucked they received 6 young prospects including Al Jefferson.

Their big 3 did lead teams to the playoffs in previous years. Why do they have to lead their teams to the playoffs the year before they came together? Its such a nonsensical requirement for a super team.

It was a team that had aging stars that complimented one another. If all those guys stayed on their same teams they would all be leading teams again to the lottery.

Counting previous achievements is like saying the Payton/Malone Lakers were a super team when in actuality Payton and Malone at that stage were role players. Using guys previous achievements to justify them being elite when in actuality they are no longer is something I don’t subscribe to.

[QMemphis]

Surely 08 celts would count right? They had multiple #1 options of playoff teams and that didnt include rondo, who made the all star team playing with them.

Most don’t remember how that team came to fruition. KG, Ray and Paul were all leading their respective teams to the lottery not playoffs.

The Celtics sucked traded their lotto Jeff Green to Seattle

Seattle also sucked they drafted KD

Timberwolves sucked they received 6 young prospects including Al Jefferson.

How does this mean it wasn't a super team?

I answered that in my original post above. But in particular to the Celtics I don’t count aging stars as a Superteam. Great team though and this ofcourse only my opinion.

[ShootersShoot]

Most don’t remember how that team came to fruition. KG, Ray and Paul were all leading their respective teams to the lottery not playoffs.

The Celtics sucked traded their lotto Jeff Green to Seattle

Seattle also sucked they drafted KD

Timberwolves sucked they received 6 young prospects including Al Jefferson.

Their big 3 did lead teams to the playoffs in previous years. Why do they have to lead their teams to the playoffs the year before they came together? Its such a nonsensical requirement for a super team.

It was a team that had aging stars that complimented one another. If all those guys stayed on their same teams they would all be leading teams again to the lottery.

Counting previous achievements is like saying the Payton/Malone Lakers were a super team when in actuality Payton and Malone at that stage were role players. Using guys previous achievements to justify them being elite when in actuality they are no longer is something I don’t subscribe to.

The oldest of the 08 celts big 3 was 32 years old..they all made all star teams the year prior to 08 and they all made the all star team in 08. They all made the all star team in 09.

Gp and malone were 35 and 40 respectively and neither would make another all star team after joining the lakers, nor would they win a championship together.

Its a disingenious argument to compare 30-32 year olds to guys over 35 and one at 40 no less. Malone was not an all star the year before joining the lakers. Gp was not the #1 option the year prior to joining the lakers.

They were 3 all star #1 options in their prime who were on bad teams. They were all stars on the celtics..Which ones of garnett, pierce, or allen were role players in 08? Both KG and pierce made all nba teams in 08.

How does a team with all aging stars win 66 games, make the finals and win a chip, while all making the all star team?? Think about it logically for chrissake.

[NZB2323]

Most don’t remember how that team came to fruition. KG, Ray and Paul were all leading their respective teams to the lottery not playoffs.

The Celtics sucked traded their lotto Jeff Green to Seattle

Seattle also sucked they drafted KD

Timberwolves sucked they received 6 young prospects including Al Jefferson.

Their big 3 did lead teams to the playoffs in previous years. Why do they have to lead their teams to the playoffs the year before they came together? Its such a nonsensical requirement for a super team.

It was a team that had aging stars that complimented one another. If all those guys stayed on their same teams they would all be leading teams again to the lottery.

Counting previous achievements is like saying the Payton/Malone Lakers were a super team when in actuality Payton and Malone at that stage were role players. Using guys previous achievements to justify them being elite when in actuality they are no longer is something I don’t subscribe to.

KG was one of the best players in the league in 07. Even with him missing the playoffs he finished 9th in MVP voting. In 08 he finished 3rd.

[VanWest82]

I don’t think Bosh has an argument for top 10. I don’t think he was ever a top 10 player. 2007 is the only year he made all-NBA, but that was over KG.

He didn’t make all-NBA in 2010 and neither did Derrick Rose, KG, or CP3, who I would have above Bosh, although if the team was positionless Bosh would have an argument over Joe Johnson and Andrew Bogut.

Again, he got hurt and played the last third of the season on a bum ankle. He was a top 10 player prior to the injury imo. If he hadn't gotten hurt, Raps make the playoffs and Bosh makes all NBA and is top 10 in MVP voting. If you want evidence of this, Bosh finished the All star game for the East. Last ten guys on the court has always been a decent proxy for top 10 calibre player in the moment.

[Iwasawitness]

How does this mean it wasn't a super team?

Also bosh did not lead his team to the playoffs the year before he joined the heat.

Because he got hurt and played the last third of the season injured. He led Raps to playoffs in 07 and 08 and still finished 12th in MVP voting in 2010 despite the injury. Bosh was arguably a top 10 player when he joined the Heat. Having three top 10 players, including the best player and a top 3 player all agree to join forces in their primes will forever go down as both the top example (with no other contenders) as a super team and also the weakest moment by top talent probably in NBA history.

RE Celtics: All three of Allen, Pierce, and Garnett were past their prime. Ray was considerably past his prime at that point. It was closer to 97 Rockets which did look weak in the moment but everyone also understood those guys were past it.

Garrett was definitely not past his prime. He was third in MVP voting and won DPOY that season and outplayed Pau Gasol in the finals. Paul Pierce still made all NBA and won FMVP. And Ray Allen, even in a specialized role, still made the all star team and had terrific percentages. He was a better third option than Bosh was in 2011.

I don't really care for the Super team nonsense. I think they're overrated and extremely contrived terms people only use to benefit their argument. All I ask for is consistency. If the 2011 Heat were a super team, so were the 2008 Celtics.

[benhillboy]

Nah. They only went 7 deep in the playoffs and were always at a big disadvantage in terms of C talent.

[SlimD235]

No. But it's easy to say that after the fact.

Rodman was a head case in 95 and no one wanted to touch him. He was given away for Will frickin Perdue.

Ron Harper was a shell of his former self after his ACL injuries. He was brought in to be a playmaker...not the explosive scorer he used to be with the Cavs and Clippers. Keep in mind, back in the day people didn't bounce back this well from ACL tears

[ScrantonBulls]

No. But it's easy to say that after the fact.

Rodman was a head case in 95 and no one wanted to touch him. He was given away for Will frickin Perdue.

Ron Harper was a shell of his former self after his ACL injuries. He was brought in to be a playmaker...not the explosive scorer he used to be with the Cavs and Clippers. Keep in mind, back in the day people didn't bounce back this well from ACL tears

Ron Harper tore his ACL in 1990. The previous 3 seasons before joining the Bulls he played 75+ games each year and averaged between 18 and 20 ppg. You make it sound like he tore his ACL right before joining the Bulls.

He took a much reduced role on offense in order to create a superteam.

[michaelm]

I am led to believe apples have always fallen to the ground.

3 franchise players in their prime, 2 of them top 5 in the NBA, aligning their Free Agency to join up at one team, and holding a national broadcast event to announce it at which dynastic intent was expressed, and henceforth being known as the superfriends was rather less common. I certainly don’t recall anything similar when Dennis Rodman who was a distressed asset at the time was traded to the Bulls, and he was 33 with a lot of wear and tear from banging with Centers for a decade.

Sure the Bulls were a great team, the 72 win team very likely the best ever, and several versions were likely better than any of the Heatles team and If this is your point I obviously agree. The term superteam was applied to the particular circumstances of the Heatles however, with a nod to the Celtics Big 3 team, and the construction of the Jordan Bulls teams was pretty much entirely dissimilar.

[michaelm]

So because super teams weren't a thing before 2011, they never existed?

Yes if super teams didn’t exist before 2011 then they didn’t exist before 2011.

The term was coined to refer to the Heatles with reference back to the Celtics big 3 who beat LeBron and likely prompted him/gave him the idea to form the Heatles, and was used to refer to the then novel practice of several elite players in their primes self assembling a team, ie the Heatles. It is somewhat arguable imo that the Big 3 Celtics were quite the same phenomenon given the 3 players concerned were closer to the end of their careers than to their absolute primes, in the case of two of them anyway, and there were no proclamations of intent to be a dynasty which would win a significant multiple number of titles.

If you want to call all the great teams in NBA history superteams fine, but that is not what they were called in their time and most if not all of them did not self assemble. If you can find a reference to players on any team prior to 2011 including the Celtics Big 3 being called the “superfriends” please post it. If you wish to argue the 72 win Bulls were a superteam because they were the greatest team of all time and better than any LeBron team I certainly won’t argue with you, but this was not (only imo of course) through any lack of effort on LeBron’s part in regard to his teams being as super as he could contrive.

I have never had a problem with LeBron forming the Heatles btw, all 3 were FAs, just with his partisans applying double standards to other players.

So according to you, gravity didn't exist until the actual term was first coined for it in the 1620s.

Do you understand how silly that sounds?

See post #434.

Apples have always fallen to the ground.

Teams being constructed as the Heatles were not so much.


It is you who seeks to revise history, which is commonly regarded as fairly silly.

[SportsGuru08]

No. But it's easy to say that after the fact.

Rodman was a head case in 95 and no one wanted to touch him. He was given away for Will frickin Perdue.

Ron Harper was a shell of his former self after his ACL injuries. He was brought in to be a playmaker...not the explosive scorer he used to be with the Cavs and Clippers. Keep in mind, back in the day people didn't bounce back this well from ACL tears

Ron Harper tore his ACL in 1990. The previous 3 seasons before joining the Bulls he played 75+ games each year and averaged between 18 and 20 ppg. You make it sound like he tore his ACL right before joining the Bulls.

He took a much reduced role on offense in order to create a superteam.

Wrong. He was brought in to score, he just didn't fit the triangle offense as a scorer. Which is why he was averaging single digits in '95 even before MJ returned.

If he can't score in high numbers in that system, then he objectively is not a player who forms a superteam.

Not that they were a superteam anyway regardless of how much revisionist history you guys like engaging in.

[Iwasawitness]

Yes if super teams didn’t exist before 2011 then they didn’t exist before 2011.

The term was coined to refer to the Heatles with reference back to the Celtics big 3 who beat LeBron and likely prompted him/gave him the idea to form the Heatles, and was used to refer to the then novel practice of several elite players in their primes self assembling a team, ie the Heatles. It is somewhat arguable imo that the Big 3 Celtics were quite the same phenomenon given the 3 players concerned were closer to the end of their careers than to their absolute primes, in the case of two of them anyway, and there were no proclamations of intent to be a dynasty which would win a significant multiple number of titles.

If you want to call all the great teams in NBA history superteams fine, but that is not what they were called in their time and most if not all of them did not self assemble. If you can find a reference to players on any team prior to 2011 including the Celtics Big 3 being called the “superfriends” please post it. If you wish to argue the 72 win Bulls were a superteam because they were the greatest team of all time and better than any LeBron team I certainly won’t argue with you, but this was not (only imo of course) through any lack of effort on LeBron’s part in regard to his teams being as super as he could contrive.

I have never had a problem with LeBron forming the Heatles btw, all 3 were FAs, just with his partisans applying double standards to other players.

So according to you, gravity didn't exist until the actual term was first coined for it in the 1620s.

Do you understand how silly that sounds?

See post #434.

Apples have always fallen to the ground.

Teams being constructed as the Heatles were not so much.


It is you who seeks to revise history, which is commonly regarded as fairly silly.

I've never once revised history on this site. There you go again using terms you don't know the meaning behind.

So now it's all about how they were formed. Nothing else.

It's really amazing that you guys don't see why this is a very stupid argument to make.

[DimesandKnicks]

They weren't.

They were pretty much the standard championship team (Two All-stars, and a bunch of role players). They weren't that different Shaq/Kobe Lakers or the LeBron/AD Lakers.

1996 Bulls
-MVP of the year
-Coach of the year
-Scoring champ
-Rebounding champ
-2 All-NBA 1st team
-3 All-defensive 1st team
-6th man of the year
-2nd best 3-point shooter
-DPOY runner-up
-2 players in Top 5 in MVP voting

Standard championship team right there.

By this criteria the 2001 Sixers were a Super Team.

2 players in top 5 MVP voting, two all nba 1st. That would be a negative

[DimesandKnicks]

No. But it's easy to say that after the fact.

Rodman was a head case in 95 and no one wanted to touch him. He was given away for Will frickin Perdue.

Ron Harper was a shell of his former self after his ACL injuries. He was brought in to be a playmaker...not the explosive scorer he used to be with the Cavs and Clippers. Keep in mind, back in the day people didn't bounce back this well from ACL tears

He averaged 20ppg after his acl tear

[MavsDirk41]

No. But it's easy to say that after the fact.

Rodman was a head case in 95 and no one wanted to touch him. He was given away for Will frickin Perdue.

Ron Harper was a shell of his former self after his ACL injuries. He was brought in to be a playmaker...not the explosive scorer he used to be with the Cavs and Clippers. Keep in mind, back in the day people didn't bounce back this well from ACL tears

He averaged 20ppg after his acl tear

Did you know he averaged those 20 points per game on 18 field goal attempts per game on 42/30/71 shooting splits lol? Do you find that impressive?