Woj: Domantas Sabonis, J. Lamb, J. Holiday Traded to Sacramento for Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, T. Thompson

[SNPA]

How has that translated to winning? Which one of our players look better with this elite play making? Fox has been out the last 8 games. How have our guys benefited from this "play making blow up". Has any other Kings player really shined with Haliburtons assist boom?

Lets see - Over the last 8 games the Kings are 2-6 (wins against a tanking OKC team who benched the entire roster, and the Nets on an 8 game losing streak)

But sure, as I said, I agree his play making has advanced this year. Anything else?

So we should just ignore all the other flaws and pretend hes the 2nd coming of jesus because hes been hitting 10 assists per game. Doesn't matter that Boston beat us by 50, ATL had a 40 point swing on us, and we got blown out by the NYK who are 2-8 in their last 10.

Cool.

Is this a serious post?

A team full of veterans that is beaten down and has quit gets its *** kicked and you’re going to blame the youngster that is playing great and gives a damn?

That’s a take.

I get it man, you are emotional. We get attached to players and especially being in Sac guys usually don't want to be here, Haliburton did. I'm as pissed as the next guy. But get real.

So far you have just responded with 4 snarky posts in a row. No substance. I imagine you will need a few days to take everything in, maybe we can revisit with a convo then.

Sabonis is a really good player. Talent wise -today- McNair did ok. But that’s not why fans are pissed. Hali has a game suited to the modern era. As you wrote, he is a winning player. He is young, under contract and wanted to change the culture. I’d argue he was capable of that. And McNair tossed it in the trash. In the long run Indy wins this. McNair lost. This is a trying to save his job move.

McNair needed to make moves. He had plenty of options (1sts/Fox/Barnes/Holmes/Buddy/etc) and he picked the one asset he shouldn’t be messing with to move for a guy under contract for two years.

This is not Luka territory but it’s bad.

Bad teams should not trade winning players. This is basic, team building 101.

[CptCrunch]

It's quite comical how The Kings treated Haliburton, a guy who actually forced his way to the franchise and stated "he's going to change the direction & culture of the franchise". He was never given a fair shot to be the man, but even then he always produced. Whether it was Fox or Mitchell he was always pushed to be an off ball guard, when it's obvious he's a natural point guard.

Since being drafted Haliburton has played 1689 minutes with De'Aaron Fox not on the floor.

His averages in those 1689 minutes are
16.5 PPG, 4 RPG, 8.8 APG, 1.9 SPG with a TS of 56.2%

This season he's played 903 minutes with Fox not on the floor. His averages during that span are 15.1 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 9.2 APG, 1.9 SPG with a TS of 55.0%

Kings fan can support me when I say Haliburton has been used more of a 2. When Fox isn't on the floor he sees a ton of time with Mitchell, who is not an ideal fit next to Haliburton. If you remove Mitchell from the equation Haliburton has played 333 minutes and in that time he's averaged 18.3 PPG, 3.2 RPG, 11.0 APG, 1.7 SPG with a TS of 57.9%

Let's also not forget Haliburton was breaking out big time recently. His last 24 games he was averaging 17.3 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 9.4 APG, 1.6 SPG on 48/43/87 shooting splits.

I think getting out of Sacramento is absolutely going to be the best thing for Haliburton's career. IMO he's a star in the waiting. This trade is going to look foolish very soon IMO. There's a reason why the league is "stunned". You just don't trade a young stud like Haliburton who's trending upwards... especially for Sabonis.

Haliburton's turnover numbers are ones we haven't seen since Chris Paul.

This could be a Harden type situation.

Pacers are known for their good player development.

Picking Fox and Davion over Haliburton is the most bone headed of dumb moves.

[carlquincy]

Always refreshing to see the fanbase bashing their former players.

[azcatz11]

Ah yes, the good old "you only look at stats, but I know better" response. The kind of person that thought the Lakers were going to coast to the finals because they got Westbrook. Did you miss the first paragraph where I didn't even mention stats?

I used stats to discuss the *trajectory* of their career, but again, what evidence is there that Haliburton is better in any category than Sabonis is right now?

You seem to think because you state an opinion everyone should just accept that as the truth without any reasoning or evidence to back it up. I've consistently shown why I think something and backed it up, you've yet to once. If you just want to put your opinion out there and don't want to discuss it, that's fine, but don't come back with some weak response about it being about "stats" as to why you won't respond and then acting like it's beneath you on top of it.

You haven’t watched Hali. That’s clear as day. You haven’t even tried to deny it. Lol.

Thanks for contributing random stats trying to prove your preconceived point.

You're right, I'm not trying to deny something I never claimed -- I'm not sure why you think that's a point in your favor. So, yeah, lol I guess? I watched him maybe 3-4 times last year, and 2-3 times this year. I never saw anything that disagrees with what the stats are saying. He's a good young player. You seem to think he's the second coming, but have yet to give any reason why, despite everything pointing to that not being the case.

As for "random" stats, literally what other stats would be more relevant to the conversation? I've asked several times for you to provide literally ANY reasoning, let alone stats, and you've still yet to. Could it be because there isn't any?

And lastly, as for "preconceived opinions", look, you clearly have a crush on Haliburton and I'm sorry your favorite player got traded, but I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm a GSW fan, I really don't care beyond it being an interesting trade to discuss. Clearly the only person with preconceived opinions is you, because you can't accept that your team won this trade because you lost your favorite player. I get why Sacramento fans always seem to think they're getting screwed, you guys have had horrible management for years now and Sac fans have deserved better for a long time. But this trade was a good thing for you guys. Your team got better. By a lot. Cheer up.

You have a lot of patience. You're actually trying to have a conversation and he's adding nothing but telling you that you don't watch him play. Even if you're wrong (I have no idea) I appreciate your perspective!

[LightTheBeam]

Is this a serious post?

A team full of veterans that is beaten down and has quit gets its *** kicked and you’re going to blame the youngster that is playing great and gives a damn?

That’s a take.

I get it man, you are emotional. We get attached to players and especially being in Sac guys usually don't want to be here, Haliburton did. I'm as pissed as the next guy. But get real.

So far you have just responded with 4 snarky posts in a row. No substance. I imagine you will need a few days to take everything in, maybe we can revisit with a convo then.

Sabonis is a really good player. Talent wise -today- McNair did ok. But that’s not why fans are pissed. Hali has a game suited to the modern era. As you wrote, he is a winning player. He is young, under contract and wanted to change the culture. I’d argue he was capable of that. And McNair tossed it in the trash. In the long run Indy wins this. McNair lost. This is a trying to save his job move.

McNair needed to make moves. He had plenty of options (1sts/Fox/Barnes/Holmes/Buddy/etc) and he picked the one asset he shouldn’t be messing with to move for a guy under contract for two years.

This is not Luka territory but it’s bad.

Bad teams should not trade winning players. This is basic, team building 101.

"Bad teams should not trade winning players" but dude. We are 4-13 in our last 17 games. We are not winning. I wanted to rebuild more than anyone. Monte said that wasn't in the cards. We can be mad about the direction, mad about moving Hali, and still realize that the team won on value and talent.

You are definitely jumping the gun. Of course in 5 years we will judge this trade solely based on Hali vs Sabonis. Reality is today the Kings won. Haliburton could become a fantastic player, or he may never fix his flaws and just be an average starter. Right now Sabonis is a top 30 player. Haliburton is not. So unless Hali becomes a top 20 guy in the next few years, its likely Sac will win the deal. Id put the chances of Hali reaching that level low, but some Kings fans were higher on him than me.

I've heard what Pacers fans have had to say about Sabonis. I've come around a bit on him. Sounds like they've had equal dysfunction/bad coaching/injuries/bad fit over the past 2 years.

Kings also dumped Buddy, got Holiday and a 2nd. That in itself is a major portion of this deal that isn't being discussed.

[SNPA]

You haven’t watched Hali. That’s clear as day. You haven’t even tried to deny it. Lol.

Thanks for contributing random stats trying to prove your preconceived point.

You're right, I'm not trying to deny something I never claimed -- I'm not sure why you think that's a point in your favor. So, yeah, lol I guess? I watched him maybe 3-4 times last year, and 2-3 times this year. I never saw anything that disagrees with what the stats are saying. He's a good young player. You seem to think he's the second coming, but have yet to give any reason why, despite everything pointing to that not being the case.

As for "random" stats, literally what other stats would be more relevant to the conversation? I've asked several times for you to provide literally ANY reasoning, let alone stats, and you've still yet to. Could it be because there isn't any?

And lastly, as for "preconceived opinions", look, you clearly have a crush on Haliburton and I'm sorry your favorite player got traded, but I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm a GSW fan, I really don't care beyond it being an interesting trade to discuss. Clearly the only person with preconceived opinions is you, because you can't accept that your team won this trade because you lost your favorite player. I get why Sacramento fans always seem to think they're getting screwed, you guys have had horrible management for years now and Sac fans have deserved better for a long time. But this trade was a good thing for you guys. Your team got better. By a lot. Cheer up.

You have a lot of patience. You're actually trying to have a conversation and he's adding nothing but telling you that you don't watch him play. Even if you're wrong (I have no idea) I appreciate your perspective!

You have no idea. Some of us do.

I’m not into stats warriors arguing about a player/game they even bother to don’t watch.

This is basketball, not a theoretically math class.

[giannis and 1]

Kings should have offered Fox and a couple 1sts. If that wasn't enough of an overpayment, you move on. Haliburton is going to be an elite player.

[turnaroundJ]

Haliburton wanted to be there and that's unfortunate because not many players would lol. But I kinda like the deal. I'm pretty high on Sabonis.

Honesty...good point guards grow on trees these days. You could find them in every draft using just a mid to late first rounder (like Haliburton himself, Maxey, Brunson). Then you have a lot of decent vets that wouldn't cost too much too (e.g. Reggie Jackson, Rondo, etc.). Other positions are more scarce, more important, and more worth it dollar-for-dollar. It's very likely that a guy like Haliburton is getting the max eventually.

[BobbyPortisEyes]

No disrespect to Sabonis who is a great player.. but this is an awful trade for the Kings. There's no vision for the future, there's no shooting and Sabonis will most likely leave for nothing in return after 2 more years of aimless mediocrity.

[Curmudgeon]

Unlike 99% of the world, I think Sacramento won the trade. Sabonis is a 25 year-old all star who plays the right way. Sure, Halliburton could develop into a great player but he isn't one now, and they already have Fox and Davion Mitchell. I'm sure they would have liked to move Fox but his deal is huge. The Kings also dumped Hield and his salary. They've been trying to trade him for at least a year with no takers.

Going forward I expect the Kings to start wining a little and the Pacers to keep losing.

[XTC]

Kings just have no real directions.

After years of splitting minutes with Hield and Bogdanovic, they then decide not to match Bogdanovic contract with Atlanta and decide to go with Buddy Hield, to only dump him a year after... If they where going to dump Hield anyways, wouldn't it have been smarter to retain Bogdanovic rather than loose him for free?

You can't make this stuff up

[RollingWave]

What the Kangz?

I mean with Indiana their weird lockerroom issue means it might not work either, but I see no way this works for the Kings.

[SNPA]

Kings just have no real directions.

After years of splitting minutes with Hield and Bogdanovic, they then decide not to match Bogdanovic contract with Atlanta and decide to go with Buddy Hield, to only dump him a year after... If they where going to dump Hield anyways, wouldn't it have been smarter to retain Bogdanovic rather than loose him for free?

You can't make this stuff up

McNair wanted “flexibility” so he could make moves. He has sense made zero moves he couldn’t have if he’d kept Bogi.

I can’t believe Vivek is going to let this clown pick a coach this summer. Same old story. Vivek let’s a GM hire a coach, 12-24 months later fires the GM and the new GM is stuck with the old coach for a year or two. Then that GM will pick a coach, 12-24 months later that GM will be fired. Think I’m exaggerating…nope. This will be the fourth installment of this cycle.

[ConSarnit]

I get it man, you are emotional. We get attached to players and especially being in Sac guys usually don't want to be here, Haliburton did. I'm as pissed as the next guy. But get real.

So far you have just responded with 4 snarky posts in a row. No substance. I imagine you will need a few days to take everything in, maybe we can revisit with a convo then.

Sabonis is a really good player. Talent wise -today- McNair did ok. But that’s not why fans are pissed. Hali has a game suited to the modern era. As you wrote, he is a winning player. He is young, under contract and wanted to change the culture. I’d argue he was capable of that. And McNair tossed it in the trash. In the long run Indy wins this. McNair lost. This is a trying to save his job move.

McNair needed to make moves. He had plenty of options (1sts/Fox/Barnes/Holmes/Buddy/etc) and he picked the one asset he shouldn’t be messing with to move for a guy under contract for two years.

This is not Luka territory but it’s bad.

Bad teams should not trade winning players. This is basic, team building 101.

"Bad teams should not trade winning players" but dude. We are 4-13 in our last 17 games. We are not winning. I wanted to rebuild more than anyone. Monte said that wasn't in the cards. We can be mad about the direction, mad about moving Hali, and still realize that the team won on value and talent.

You are definitely jumping the gun. Of course in 5 years we will judge this trade solely based on Hali vs Sabonis. Reality is today the Kings won. Haliburton could become a fantastic player, or he may never fix his flaws and just be an average starter. Right now Sabonis is a top 30 player. Haliburton is not. So unless Hali becomes a top 20 guy in the next few years, its likely Sac will win the deal. Id put the chances of Hali reaching that level low, but some Kings fans were higher on him than me.

I've heard what Pacers fans have had to say about Sabonis. I've come around a bit on him. Sounds like they've had equal dysfunction/bad coaching/injuries/bad fit over the past 2 years.

Kings also dumped Buddy, got Holiday and a 2nd. That in itself is a major portion of this deal that isn't being discussed.

It screams lateral move at best to me.

You’re a bad team that’s swapping out parts. You swap out one good player for another. Why would the Kings think this improves them at any significant level? So they can get the 10th seed? If you’re a bad/mediocre team you need to add to the core, not just swap pieces.

Look at the Vuc trade: they gave up assets (picks) that didn’t really effect the structure of their team while upgrading their C position.

Kings: immediately downgrade their SG and have to play Holmes and Sabonis together? Sabonis was a mediocre fit with Turner and he was still a better fit than Holmes.

SAC is just mashing pieces together.

[Curmudgeon]

Kings just have no real directions.

After years of splitting minutes with Hield and Bogdanovic, they then decide not to match Bogdanovic contract with Atlanta and decide to go with Buddy Hield, to only dump him a year after... If they where going to dump Hield anyways, wouldn't it have been smarter to retain Bogdanovic rather than loose him for free?

You can't make this stuff up

All true. But this trade is a step in the right direction IMHO.

[Tottery]

Haliburton hasn't exactly had a massive grow from his rookie season, but I think they pulled the trigger too quick. Sabonis is great, a 20 and 10 guy, but lacks defense. Would have made more sense to pair him with Haliburton.

[BobbyPortisEyes]

Kings just have no real directions.

After years of splitting minutes with Hield and Bogdanovic, they then decide not to match Bogdanovic contract with Atlanta and decide to go with Buddy Hield, to only dump him a year after... If they where going to dump Hield anyways, wouldn't it have been smarter to retain Bogdanovic rather than loose him for free?

You can't make this stuff up

All true. But this trade is a step in the right direction IMHO.

Did you just agree with him that the Kings have no direction and then say this is a step in the right direction?

[DroseReturnChi]

Haliburton's turnover numbers are ones we haven't seen since Chris Paul.

This could be a Harden type situation.

Pacers are known for their good player development.

Picking Fox and Davion over Haliburton is the most bone headed of dumb moves.

okay comparing hali to cp3 and harden is just ridiculous and even if he was that good it would be bc of pacers development hali was already stagnant behind fox. there is a thing called trade value kings got enough value from a 12th pick while fox and davion barely has value. trading hali doesnt mean they are married to those two they could easily pump their value like hali and get rid of them later.

[DroseReturnChi]

Kings just have no real directions.

After years of splitting minutes with Hield and Bogdanovic, they then decide not to match Bogdanovic contract with Atlanta and decide to go with Buddy Hield, to only dump him a year after... If they where going to dump Hield anyways, wouldn't it have been smarter to retain Bogdanovic rather than loose him for free?

You can't make this stuff up

All true. But this trade is a step in the right direction IMHO.

i dont understand why they have no direction when staus quo had no direction or are you claiming missing playin for 30th yr is worth it? kings already have enough talent they must win now and become a fa destination. making the 1st round would be a homerun instead of being seen as little brothers to la.

if sabonis and fox carries this team to a playin and make 1st round, this trade is already worth it regardless of how good hali turns out.

[GrindCityHustle]

Trades like this means the Kings know something about Haliburton that isn't public yet