2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[MotownMadness]

Bro, he has the 3rd worst shooting stats in the league, essentially tied with Westbrook and Giddey. It is good to live in reality.

Dont care is he is young and probably has one of the highest USG% on the league seeing as he literally does everything and will only get more efficient at everything he does as time goes on.

Go watch him before you join the eat some crow crew this late

At this point there is nothing more to say. He isn't good (maybe we have different definitions of good). He will very likely be very good in a few years. He is a bad shooter - around Westbrook / Giddey levels and does not get to the line despite having a huge usage rate (thanks for pointing that one out). Once he figures that out, he will be an all-star maybe, but until he does, he is not a guy to lead your team to success. Note the Pistons record. Instead of telling me to watch more games (probably the weakest argument that exists - I will certainly say you likely watch more Piston games than I do, I have seen him 4 games this year, but I saw him probably 12/14 times in college), perhaps you can tell me why you think he will shoot at a better rate? 43% in college, 40% in the NBA. It kinda seems like that is who he is at this point of his career, but again, how is he a three level scorer? It kinda feels like you are throwing out your 2K terms or something. It just doesn't make sense.

Just watch him play lol, i cant debate with you about projecting a player you dont even know anything about in the slightest.

[ForeverTFC]

His defence is quite good and he tries hard. But his red flag going into the league was he can't shoot. And he still can't shoot. 28% from 3 is not a three level scorer lol. 28% from 3 on 6 attempts per game is dumb. Look a little closer at his stats and he is basically a lite-Russell Westbrook on offense at this point. He has a ton of potential, but he is not good at this point.

And this people, is why we watch the games. Use this as a lesson.

Good grief.

So you are saying that he is good this year? Or he has potential to be good?

Also, how many basketball games do you watch each year? I'm sure that you watch more Pistons games than I do, but I can almost certainly tell you that I watch more games than you do. The watch games arguement is so weak. He has the 3rd worst eFG% in the league.

To be fair, KD had a .451 eFG% and .288 3pt% in his rookie season. Not comparing the 2 but just pointing out that rookie shooting numbers are not the end all/be all. If he still shoots it like this by the end of year 2, there should be more cause for concern. Cade is taking some trash shots - partly because he doesn't have anyone on the team other than Grant and partly because he has the green light to chuck with little repercussion. If I'm a Pistons fan, the second part is more concerning to me. They need to put a system and some decent players around him after the draft this year for his overall development.

[fianchetto]

Barnes' floor is looking a lot like a 20/10/5 guy, which is a perennial all-star candidate. Impressive how he's been able to bully NBA vets in the paint, as a rookie. People probably wont' like this comparison, but Barnes physicality reminds me of Zach Randolph in the post, except that he's able use his excellent handles to dribble into the post by himself.

Mini-Jokic is also a good comparison.

don't agree with mini jokic, but agree with the other stuff. I actually think his handle has room for improvement, which is great to say considering what he's doing now

[tmorgan]

So you watched a bunch of his college games and you think he can’t shoot? You clearly have an agenda here.

[MotownMadness]

And this people, is why we watch the games. Use this as a lesson.

Good grief.

So you are saying that he is good this year? Or he has potential to be good?

Also, how many basketball games do you watch each year? I'm sure that you watch more Pistons games than I do, but I can almost certainly tell you that I watch more games than you do. The watch games arguement is so weak. He has the 3rd worst eFG% in the league.

To be fair, KD had a .451 eFG% and .288 3pt% in his rookie season. Not comparing the 2 but just pointing out that rookie shooting numbers are not the end all/be all. If he still shoots it like this by the end of year 2, there should be more cause for concern. Cade is taking some trash shots - partly because he doesn't have anyone on the team other than Grant and partly because he has the green light to chuck with little repercussion. If I'm a Pistons fan, the second part is more concerning to me. They need to put a system and some decent players around him after the draft this year for his overall development.

The second part doesn't concern me cause hes not really chucking and still playing smart ball. He tries to get guys going before himself.

The talent part is what we need though for sure. Hopefully another top 5 pick and all our capspace can get us going next year.

[mattao313]

That is some bad (but not unexpected) shooting. Why does he get a pass from many casual fans for his percentages?

I think its opposite where casual fans would see it as more of a problem just stat watching.

Anybody who watches him leaves pretty impressed after at how advanced he is at his age as the #1 guy on his squad. He has a arsenal of moves as a 3 level scorer who commands alot of attention from defenses. Plus he also plays hard on defense all game.

His defence is quite good and he tries hard. But his red flag going into the league was he can't shoot. And he still can't shoot. 28% from 3 is not a three level scorer lol. 28% from 3 on 6 attempts per game is dumb. Look a little closer at his stats and he is basically a lite-Russell Westbrook on offense at this point. He has a ton of potential, but he is not good at this point.

Dude he's a rookie your not making sense. He shot 40% from 3 in college his 3pt shooting will come around.

Comparing him to a 10+ year vet having a terrible season is flat out a bad take.

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[lobosloboslobos]

If you give me an option to take any rookie in this class I'm taking Cade without giving it more than 2 seconds of thought. If you ask Cavs fans they take Mobley. If you ask Raps fans they take Scottie Barnes.

that is very true and quite amazing. they should do a 3-way ROY. i mean sure I'd like to see Scottie win it, but mostly because if he does win it it will be because he continues to elevate his play even further in the final stretch of the season. don't really care who wins the award itself in a year when there are so clearly 3 deserving candidates.

[Snowwy]

I think its opposite where casual fans would see it as more of a problem just stat watching.

Anybody who watches him leaves pretty impressed after at how advanced he is at his age as the #1 guy on his squad. He has a arsenal of moves as a 3 level scorer who commands alot of attention from defenses. Plus he also plays hard on defense all game.

His defence is quite good and he tries hard. But his red flag going into the league was he can't shoot. And he still can't shoot. 28% from 3 is not a three level scorer lol. 28% from 3 on 6 attempts per game is dumb. Look a little closer at his stats and he is basically a lite-Russell Westbrook on offense at this point. He has a ton of potential, but he is not good at this point.

Dude he's a rookie your not making sense. He shot 40% from 3 in college his 3pt shooting will come around.

Comparing him to a 10+ year vet having a terrible season is flat out a bad take.

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Right and as I have said now three times, I am comparing the guy on the court today to another guy on the court today. Did you read the OP or any of my replies? It seems that you cannot separate potential and current level. Good luck with that.

[Snowwy]

And this people, is why we watch the games. Use this as a lesson.

Good grief.

So you are saying that he is good this year? Or he has potential to be good?

Also, how many basketball games do you watch each year? I'm sure that you watch more Pistons games than I do, but I can almost certainly tell you that I watch more games than you do. The watch games arguement is so weak. He has the 3rd worst eFG% in the league.

To be fair, KD had a .451 eFG% and .288 3pt% in his rookie season. Not comparing the 2 but just pointing out that rookie shooting numbers are not the end all/be all. If he still shoots it like this by the end of year 2, there should be more cause for concern. Cade is taking some trash shots - partly because he doesn't have anyone on the team other than Grant and partly because he has the green light to chuck with little repercussion. If I'm a Pistons fan, the second part is more concerning to me. They need to put a system and some decent players around him after the draft this year for his overall development.

Right and if you read my posts that is exactly what I say. Everyone just wanting to post without reading. You and I agree. To be honest, I think I agree with most posters on here, just many of them are not able to read or have just pretty bad comprehension skills. Maybe my fault for giving some people too much credit. There is a difference between current level and potential, as you said (and as I said like 11 times now). Did you watch Cade in college?

[MrBigShot]

If you give me an option to take any rookie in this class I'm taking Cade without giving it more than 2 seconds of thought. If you ask Cavs fans they take Mobley. If you ask Raps fans they take Scottie Barnes.

That is pretty special.

I have read something like that even about other players in the draft class, too.

But how often is it reasonable? 2016 onwards you'd have Simmons, Tatum, Luka, Zion as the pretty clear-cut rookies most fans would take out of their respective classes during their rookie years. Last year obviously it would've been pretty split between Ant and LaMelo. I honestly can't think of the last time there were 3 different rookies with legitimate cases as the best prospect in their rookie years.

[Madhouse]

If you give me an option to take any rookie in this class I'm taking Cade without giving it more than 2 seconds of thought. If you ask Cavs fans they take Mobley. If you ask Raps fans they take Scottie Barnes.

That is pretty special.

I have read something like that even about other players in the draft class, too.

But how often is it reasonable? 2016 onwards you'd have Simmons, Tatum, Luka, Zion as the pretty clear-cut rookies most fans would take out of their respective classes during their rookie years. Last year obviously it would've been pretty split between Ant and LaMelo. I honestly can't think of the last time there were 3 different rookies with legitimate cases as the best prospect in their rookie years.

not often reasonable. 3-way ROY race is rare.

[MrBigShot]

Post All-Star break 22.3 pts 7.5 rebs 6.0 asts 0.5 stls 0.6 blks .444 FG% .288 3pt% .850 FT% in 35.8 mpg 5-5 W/L

That is some bad (but not unexpected) shooting. Why does he get a pass from many casual fans for his percentages? Cade Cunningham and Russell Westbrook have the same eFG% this year. This guy is not good. He has a ton of potential, but he is not good. He has the ball a lot and has a lot of opportunity on a really bad team.

Why would he need a pass? Most reasonable fans understand that rookies struggling with efficiency is commonplace.

LeBron James quite literally had a lower TS% in his rookie year than Cade does currently. And then the whole knock on him being that he can't shoot...he shot 40% from deep on about 6 attempts in college so that obviously isn't true. The questions about him were whether or not his athleticism would keep him from getting to the rim, and whether or not he has the playmaking ability to be a lead ball handler. Clearly he has put both of those questions to rest.

[Snowwy]

Post All-Star break 22.3 pts 7.5 rebs 6.0 asts 0.5 stls 0.6 blks .444 FG% .288 3pt% .850 FT% in 35.8 mpg 5-5 W/L

That is some bad (but not unexpected) shooting. Why does he get a pass from many casual fans for his percentages? Cade Cunningham and Russell Westbrook have the same eFG% this year. This guy is not good. He has a ton of potential, but he is not good. He has the ball a lot and has a lot of opportunity on a really bad team.

Why would he need a pass? Most fans understand that rookies struggling with efficiency is commonplace.

LeBron James quite literally had a lower TS% in his rookie year than Cade does currently.

Well he is not 'hooping' as the thread suggests. He will one day be hooping - no doubt. But he is not 'hooping' this season. Seems like you were looking for a different thread maybe, one about what he will become. This thread was about what he is today if you read the OP.

[TheLand13]

I am not trying to promote one guy at the expense of the other or anything, but I can't help noticing how close Mobley and Barnes are right now.

Barnes last 10 games:

19 PPG on 57% FG
8.4 RPG
3.3 APG
1 SPG
2 BPG

Mobley’s defensive impact still far outweighs Barnes, but what I find notable about what Barnes is doing is that he’s not even their second option on offense even with VanVleet missing games. I couldn’t even begin to imagine what his numbers would be if he were the number one option on offense. But then again, the same holds true for Mobley.

Mobley is better on defense and Barnes on offense but recently Mobley has improved his offense and Barnes his defense significantly from what I have seen.

Mobley hasn’t really improved his offense all that much. He’s just in a position where he’s forced to be their second option on offense. His scoring numbers usually bump up whenever Allen doesn’t play.

[ForeverTFC]

Mobley’s defensive impact still far outweighs Barnes, but what I find notable about what Barnes is doing is that he’s not even their second option on offense even with VanVleet missing games. I couldn’t even begin to imagine what his numbers would be if he were the number one option on offense. But then again, the same holds true for Mobley.

Mobley is better on defense and Barnes on offense but recently Mobley has improved his offense and Barnes his defense significantly from what I have seen.

Mobley hasn’t really improved his offense all that much. He’s just in a position where he’s forced to be their second option on offense. His scoring numbers usually bump up whenever Allen doesn’t play.

He'll be in the gym all summer putting up 3s and free throws. His FT % is up to 75% last 15 games on 3.8 attempts so if the increase in FT% over the season is not a fluke, not sure why he wouldn't be attempting ~3 threes a game at .35 next year.

.35 at 3-4 attempts is what I'm hoping from Barnes next year, though he has to also work a lot on his handles as well during the summer.

[TheLand13]

Mobley is better on defense and Barnes on offense but recently Mobley has improved his offense and Barnes his defense significantly from what I have seen.

Mobley hasn’t really improved his offense all that much. He’s just in a position where he’s forced to be their second option on offense. His scoring numbers usually bump up whenever Allen doesn’t play.

He'll be in the gym all summer putting up 3s and free throws. His FT % is up to 75% last 15 games on 3.8 attempts so if the increase in FT% over the season is not a fluke, not sure why he wouldn't be attempting ~3 threes a game at .35 next year.

.35 at 3-4 attempts is what I'm hoping from Barnes next year, though he has to also work a lot on his handles as well during the summer.

I think improving his outside shooting is what Mobley will want to work on over the summer. Having two near seven footers on the team who can reliably shoot from outside would make Cleveland’s offense much deadlier and a matchup nightmare for opposing teams.

[whitehops]

since the pistons gave cade the keys to the offense, he's been averaging 22/8/6 in those 11 games. the averages of some all stars this season:

FVV - 21/5/7
butler - 21/6/6
middleton - 20/5/5
wiggins - 17/4/2
ball - 20/7/7
garland - 21/3/8

i think there's a good chance he joins the club next season.

[7r5ur]

since the pistons gave cade the keys to the offense, he's been averaging 22/8/6 in those 11 games. the averages of some all stars this season:

FVV - 21/5/7
butler - 21/6/6
middleton - 20/5/5
wiggins - 17/4/2
ball - 20/7/7
garland - 21/3/8

i think there's a good chance he joins the club next season.

Pistons would have to be firmly in the playoff race which I really doubt they will be. Maybe in year 3.

[ForeverTFC]

since the pistons gave cade the keys to the offense, he's been averaging 22/8/6 on 51.4 TS% in those 11 games. the averages of some all stars this season:

FVV - 21/5/7 - 56.8 TS%
butler - 21/6/6 - 58.2 TS%
middleton - 20/5/5 - 58 TS%
wiggins - 17/4/2 - 56.4 TS%
ball - 20/7/7 - 53.9 TS% (added in by the NBA over much more deserving players)
garland - 21/3/8 - 58.4 TS%

i think there's a good chance he joins the club next season.

FTFY. He's a good rookie but he's got ways to go before he's in the all-star discussion. Not saying he can't get there next year but his last 11 games are not all-star numbers.

[whitehops]

FTFY. He's a good rookie but he's got ways to go before he's in the all-star discussion. Not saying he can't get there next year but his last 11 games are not all-star numbers.

i know, i was talking about next season. he's within striking distance is all i meant.