NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24

firedavidkahn · Post #441 » by **firedavidkahn** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:07 am

Ant has entered the chat. Not gonna win but a top 5 candidate right now.

turnaroundJ · Post #442 » by **turnaroundJ** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:12 am

jokic is probably the best basketball player i've ever watched on offense. is this enough to make him the best player i've ever watched overall? i think it could be... how dynamic he is makes him multidimensional in a way that surpasses just being a "two-way player" - as lazily used by people for player comparisons. anyway he has many years of this left so let's see.

Wolfgang630 · Post #443 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:21 am

firedavidkahn wrote:Ant has entered the chat. Not gonna win but a top 5 candidate right now.

Who would you put him over out of Joker, Embiid, Steph, Luka and Tatum?

Post #444 » by **Duke4life831** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:24 am

The only difference for Denver with and without Murray during the regular season is Jokic shoots a couple more times, and that might make them even harder to beat haha.

I really don’t think there is a single flaw in z Jokic’s game offensively. He’s elite in all the individual categories, but he’s also elite from a team aspect. He doesn’t dominate the ball and guys just stand around hoping to get the ball. He moves the ball very quickly all the time. And when he needs to create his own shot off the dribble, he’s elite at that as well.

Dude is just on his own tier

firedavidkahn · Post #445 » by **firedavidkahn** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:29 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:
firedavidkahn wrote:Ant has entered the chat. Not gonna win but a top 5 candidate right now.

Who would you put him over out of Joker, Embiid, Steph, Luka and Tatum?

That's fair. Not ahead of those guys yet

eyeatoma · Post #446 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:36 am

BigGargamel wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
QPR wrote:
No shame in being behind someone that will be in the GOAT discussion when he hangs them up.

Lol just stop.

Huh? Jokic's current career trajectory (barring injury or something unforeseen) absolutely will put him in the GOAT conversation.

No he won't. The Goat conversation is MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Magic.

They all won 4 or more championships. Heck Steph has 4, and he's not considered in the goat conversation, even though he's the greatest shooter of all time.

You can say goat conversation when he gets three, but at this point, I don't think so. You're not the goat when you play only 1 side of the ball. He could be in the conversation for the greatest offensive player of all time, but all the other players mentioned in that lest were great to dominant two way players.

eyeatoma · Post #447 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:38 am

QPR wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
QPR wrote:
No shame in being behind someone that will be in the GOAT discussion when he hangs them up.

Lol just stop.

Stop what? Compare him at age 28 with nearly any all time great.

Yes, he's 28, it's just projecting at this point, and tons of things can happen. He hasn't even gotten close to that territory yet. He has 1 chip, and 2 mvps.

Wolfgang630 · Post #448 » by **Wolfgang630** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:40 am

Joker and Steph are 2 of the most unique players in NBA history. Idk if we’ll ever see players like them ever again.

eyeatoma · Post #449 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:42 am

dygaction wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
QPR wrote:
No shame in being behind someone that will be in the GOAT discussion when he hangs them up.

Lol just stop.

So you are still a non believer of Jokic..

NBA/ABA playoff all time PER:
1. Nikola Jokić 29.02
2. Michael Jordan* 28.60
3. George Mikan* 28.51
4. LeBron James 27.94

NBA/ABA regular season all time PER:
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. Nikola Jokić 27.72
3. LeBron James 27.20

NBA & ABA Career Playoff Leaders and Records for Box Plus/Minus
1. Michael Jordan* 11.14
2. Nikola Jokić 10.42
3. LeBron James 10.04

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Box Plus/Minus
1. Nikola Jokić 9.46
2. Michael Jordan* 9.21
3. LeBron James 8.75

None of those take defense into consideration. The Nuggets did a great job putting a great defensive team around him. He is not in the conversation for GOAT when he only plays one side of the ball. All the others goats or goat contestants are dominant 2 way players in their prime.

You can throw all the stats at me you want, fact of the matter is they do a terrible job measuring defense which is you know half of the game. Y'all should be happy, least I'm not saying Embiid will be goat lol.

But the point is that he is still in the infancy of his career. There are so many player who have won more chips, and more MVPS that are not in the convo, and just because advanced stats love his game, doesn't make him one. The dude will probably retire to his horses in 3-4 years, and if he doesnt' he still has a very, very long way to go.

Jokic is in the goat conversation for greatest offensive player of all time, 100%. But the GOAT, no yet, and it's careless to have this conversation now.

eyeatoma · Post #450 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:43 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:Joker and Steph are 2 of the most unique players in NBA history. Idk if we’ll ever see players like them ever again.

I'd say at this point Steph has a much stronger argument than Jokic for GOAT, even though I don't think he's in the conversation. That's how long the list is.

zero rings · Post #451 » by **zero rings** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:46 am

eyeatoma wrote:
BigGargamel wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Lol just stop.

Huh? Jokic's current career trajectory (barring injury or something unforeseen) absolutely will put him in the GOAT conversation.

No he won't. The Goat conversation is MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Magic.

They all won 4 or more championships. Heck Steph has 4, and he's not considered in the goat conversation, even though he's the greatest shooter of all time.

You can say goat conversation when he gets three, but at this point, I don't think so. You're not the goat when you play only 1 side of the ball. He could be in the conversation for the greatest offensive player of all time, but all the other players mentioned in that lest were great to dominant two way players.

He's having a GOAT level peak, which is by far the most important part of the GOAT resume. He just needs to sustain it and win a few more rings.

Kobe has no business being in that conversation. Great resume but he wasn't good enough at his best.

Lakers In 5 · Post #452 » by **Lakers In 5** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:49 am

Jokic is running away with it, again. Back to back to back to back MVP, never been done before.

eyeatoma · Post #453 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:52 am

Demagoog wrote:Jokic is running away with it, again. Back to back to back to back MVP, never been done before.

Nice try, but someone else deservedly won it last year.

bigboi · Post #454 » by **bigboi** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 5:59 am

Jokic number 1 for sure

eyeatoma · Post #455 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:00 am

zero rings wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
BigGargamel wrote:
Huh? Jokic's current career trajectory (barring injury or something unforeseen) absolutely will put him in the GOAT conversation.

No he won't. The Goat conversation is MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Magic.

They all won 4 or more championships. Heck Steph has 4, and he's not considered in the goat conversation, even though he's the greatest shooter of all time.

You can say goat conversation when he gets three, but at this point, I don't think so. You're not the goat when you play only 1 side of the ball. He could be in the conversation for the greatest offensive player of all time, but all the other players mentioned in that lest were great to dominant two way players.

He's having a GOAT level peak, which is by far the most important part of the GOAT resume. He just needs to sustain it and win a few more rings.

Kobe has no business being in that conversation. Great resume but he wasn't good enough at his best.

It's actually not. To be in the goat conversation you need years of consistency, which winning multiple championshps and MVP. He has won 1, none of this matter unless he's atleast won 3.

Sgt Major · Post #456 » by **Sgt Major** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:01 am

Read on Twitter

WHAT

eyeatoma · Post #457 » by **eyeatoma** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:01 am

zero rings wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
BigGargamel wrote:
Huh? Jokic's current career trajectory (barring injury or something unforeseen) absolutely will put him in the GOAT conversation.

No he won't. The Goat conversation is MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Magic.

They all won 4 or more championships. Heck Steph has 4, and he's not considered in the goat conversation, even though he's the greatest shooter of all time.

You can say goat conversation when he gets three, but at this point, I don't think so. You're not the goat when you play only 1 side of the ball. He could be in the conversation for the greatest offensive player of all time, but all the other players mentioned in that lest were great to dominant two way players.

He's having a GOAT level peak, which is by far the most important part of the GOAT resume. He just needs to sustain it and win a few more rings.

Kobe has no business being in that conversation. Great resume but he wasn't good enough at his best.

Didn't realize 5 more rings is a few lol...

A few more rings, thanks for the laugh lol.

Lakers In 5 · Post #458 » by **Lakers In 5** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:03 am

Crazy how someone wins three straight MVPs, drop an all-time dominant championship winning postseason, and come back even better the next year. Unquestionable best player in the world, and it looks like he is far from being done operating at this absurd level.

moderndarwin · Post #459 » by **moderndarwin** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:09 am

Steph probably top candidate so far Dubs been winning on the road

zero rings · Post #460 » by **zero rings** » Tue Nov 7, 2023 6:15 am

eyeatoma wrote:
zero rings wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
No he won't. The Goat conversation is MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Magic.

They all won 4 or more championships. Heck Steph has 4, and he's not considered in the goat conversation, even though he's the greatest shooter of all time.

You can say goat conversation when he gets three, but at this point, I don't think so. You're not the goat when you play only 1 side of the ball. He could be in the conversation for the greatest offensive player of all time, but all the other players mentioned in that lest were great to dominant two way players.

He's having a GOAT level peak, which is by far the most important part of the GOAT resume. He just needs to sustain it and win a few more rings.

Kobe has no business being in that conversation. Great resume but he wasn't good enough at his best.

Didn't realize 5 more rings is a few lol...

A few more rings, thanks for the laugh lol.

Why just 5? Bill Russell has 11, after all.

Who will be the 2023-24 NBA MVP?