are the Knicks LEGIT contenders?!

[Darthlukey]

Brunson takes a whopping 27 shots a game in the playoffs & all of a sudden he’s better than Tatum

Brunson had a better season than Tatum.

Brunson shooting 27 times had similar efficiency as Tatum shooting 20 times.

Tatum ain’t better than him.

This may be biased, but defence is a thing too. In terms of clutch scoring and overall playmaking, im not going to argue Brunson vs Tatum (cos Brunson wins!). But tatum is much better in every other facet of the game. Having said that, its hard to compare players that play such different positions

[bronxknicksfan1]

Brunson takes a whopping 27 shots a game in the playoffs & all of a sudden he’s better than Tatum

Brunson had a better season than Tatum.

Brunson shooting 27 times had similar efficiency as Tatum shooting 20 times.

Tatum ain’t better than him.

This may be biased, but defence is a thing too. In terms of clutch scoring and overall playmaking, im not going to argue Brunson vs Tatum (cos Brunson wins!). But tatum is much better in every other facet of the game. Having said that, its hard to compare players that play such different positions

That’s a fair take. And I won’t argue against that. Tatum is the more talented player being that he’s taller and more athletic. Based off that and his skill set, it should be no question. Brunson has just been that good.

[Tottery]

Maybe if healthy. They looked pretty good even without Randle, but fell apart when OG became injured. If their core 3 can be healthy in a post season, it will be tough for opposing teams.

If you're a Knicks fan, you can finally be excited again lol.

[NoStatsGuy]

It's tough to make the second round in this league, so this isn't the statement you think it is.

I am critical of Randle pretty often and have wanted to trade him multiple times.

But last season, Randle was playing winning basketball.

Maybe he sucks again in the playoffs, but I don't know if I would label him a loser player at this point.

The Knicks needed him last season. And they will need him this season too.

I mean yes it is. I think the Knicks sans Randle are legit contenders. With him I think they are 2nd round ceiling. Pretty drastic difference.

And you don't seem to realize that you have fallen for the trap of Julius Randle. He suckers you in "playing winning basketball" and then he'll turn around and have inexplicable stretches where the only valid description for him would be "allergic to winning". This has been his MO his entire playing career. He literally had his best season ever then followed it up with an all time horrific season for a high usage player.

Even in his best years he's a below average scorer. He's not a defender. He provides rebounding and "playmaking" along with his super mediocre scoring, but he is a total ball stopper who kills ball movement so you're never going to convince me of his assists being super high value compared to how the ball moves without him out there.

just because you think randle is such a detriment, doesnt make it right.

im sorry... you dont just bench or dump a 25/10/5 guy who made all nba teams and is not even earning 30 mil per year. teams would lick their fingers to get a player like that. stop the foolishness. not saying hes the most saught after guy or anything and he for sure has his problems. but yall need to stop giving takes based on your personal feelings towards randle, thats manipulated by reading realgm or reddit on picking up those stupid ass narratives

[NYKat]

If the Knicks either just bench Randle and play him zero mins or trade him for literally anything to get him off the roster they are contenders. If he is still on the team and playing big minutes they are a 2nd round exit. Honestly it's that simple for them.

sure, just bench an all nba player.

or even better just dump an all nba player on a good contract for no reason.

those takes hahahahahaha

Randle is a loser player whose style is a detriment to others and what he brings to the table is not needed with what NYK has now. Total trap player. If you guys keep him and start him let's quote this when the Knicks lose in the 2nd round next year. They jsut need to figure out how to keep Hartenstein and they are contenders like I said. If they can trade Randle for even a solid 8th man, they are golden (or just dump him and maybe recoup future draft equity).

What a garbage take.

The guys has done nothing but improve every single year he’s been in the league, (and has an MIP as evidence) to the extent that he’s a 2 time All NBA player, who spearheaded the resurgence of the Knicks franchise to the best team in 20 years.

Just say you don’t know what the f*ck you’re talking about and keep it moving.

[robbie84]

They're certainly knocking on the door.
Randle is not a great fit for this roster so moving him for PG or Butler would be their best bet IMO.
Just don't know who'd be that interested in Randle. He's a good player but his flaws on both ends are pretty bad.

[doogie_hauser]

There was a real discussion going on this season that Brunson should’ve been 1st Team All-NBA over Tatum. Finished ahead of Tatum in MVP and Clutch Player of the Year voting. Tatum is more talented than Brunson, but it’s debatable if he’s better.

And Brunson is absolutely better than Brown. That’s not even up for discussion.

If Brunson is non debatably better than brown, and brown is better than Tatum, than doesn't that make Brunson non debatably better than Tatum also?

He absolutely is.

Not overall career body wise work of play he ain't
Not even convinced he is a better player then Jaylen Brown either.

Brunson I feel reached his optimal peak as a player last season, whereas The Jays still have plenty of growth and improvement left in him.

Calling him better than Tatum is absolutely laughable, especially given the post season CD/Credentials of the two players

[marcush]

I think so. Love this roster. My Sixers are cooked. Rose is far superior to Morey.

[Governor Dudley]

sure, just bench an all nba player.

or even better just dump an all nba player on a good contract for no reason.

those takes hahahahahaha

Randle is a loser player whose style is a detriment to others and what he brings to the table is not needed with what NYK has now. Total trap player. If you guys keep him and start him let's quote this when the Knicks lose in the 2nd round next year. They jsut need to figure out how to keep Hartenstein and they are contenders like I said. If they can trade Randle for even a solid 8th man, they are golden (or just dump him and maybe recoup future draft equity).

What a garbage take.

The guys has done nothing but improve every single year he’s been in the league, (and has an MIP as evidence) to the extent that he’s a 2 time All NBA player, who spearheaded the resurgence of the Knicks franchise to the best team in 20 years.

Just say you don’t know what the f*ck you’re talking about and keep it moving.

Damn.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[cgf]

It depends on what they do with OG. If they retain them, they matchup insanely well against Boston and Milwaukee, especially if they manage to get rid of Randle. If they don’t keep OG, they’re still a scary good team.

If we get rid of Randle, Brunson will break down by the Allstar game. We need somebody else who can get their own buckets and create for others. Plus Julius typically being a hotstarter in games works very well with Jalen typically needing some time to find his rhythm / figure a defense out.

Brundle have great synergy and losing either half would leave a major hole we needed to fill...aka there's a reason Brunson's so much more efficient with Randle on the court than without him...and Bridges has shown in Brooklyn that he just doesn't have that level of offense in his bag.

[cgf]

Verdict is out on that still, but this is going to be a helluva fun team to watch!

Yeah. I'm optimistic because I thought we could've given the Celtics a lot of problems if healthy last year. Plus continuing to Nova-up looks like a great idea on paper, but we still need to see how it all plays out on the court. Not to forget; whether we can stay healthy enough in the playoffs with OG & Mitch's injury history...and Miami seemingly deadset against allowing Julius to ever enter a postseason healthy.

[cgf]

If Brunson is non debatably better than brown, and brown is better than Tatum, than doesn't that make Brunson non debatably better than Tatum also?

He absolutely is.

Not overall career body wise work of play he ain't
Not even convinced he is a better player then Jaylen Brown either.

Brunson I feel reached his optimal peak as a player last season, whereas The Jays still have plenty of growth and improvement left in him.

Calling him better than Tatum is absolutely laughable, especially given the post season CD/Credentials of the two players

It's certainly possible, but why would you think that? Are teams going to "figure out" how to defend Brunson? Do you think he'll get complacent now that he's "reached the mountaintop"?

Because so far Brunson has only refined & sharpened his game every season. He hopefully won't need to put up the same raw #s as he did after Julius got hurt last year, but I don't see why his game couldn't be even better.

[Iwasawitness]

There are actually people in this thread arguing that Brunson is better than Tatum.

While I don't deny that Brunson is becoming a superstar caliber player, he's not on that level yet.

[cgf]

It's tough to make the second round in this league, so this isn't the statement you think it is.

I am critical of Randle pretty often and have wanted to trade him multiple times.

But last season, Randle was playing winning basketball.

Maybe he sucks again in the playoffs, but I don't know if I would label him a loser player at this point.

The Knicks needed him last season. And they will need him this season too.

I mean yes it is. I think the Knicks sans Randle are legit contenders. With him I think they are 2nd round ceiling. Pretty drastic difference.

And you don't seem to realize that you have fallen for the trap of Julius Randle. He suckers you in "playing winning basketball" and then he'll turn around and have inexplicable stretches where the only valid description for him would be "allergic to winning". This has been his MO his entire playing career. He literally had his best season ever then followed it up with an all time horrific season for a high usage player.

Even in his best years he's a below average scorer. He's not a defender. He provides rebounding and "playmaking" along with his super mediocre scoring, but he is a total ball stopper who kills ball movement so you're never going to convince me of his assists being super high value compared to how the ball moves without him out there.

just because you think randle is such a detriment, doesnt make it right.

im sorry... you dont just bench or dump a 25/10/5 guy who made all nba teams and is not even earning 30 mil per year. teams would lick their fingers to get a player like that. stop the foolishness. not saying hes the most saught after guy or anything and he for sure has his problems. but yall need to stop giving takes based on your personal feelings towards randle, thats manipulated by reading realgm or reddit on picking up those stupid ass narratives

Especially not one coming off the kind of season Julius was having. He wasn't just putting up raw #s, he was doing it very efficiently...TS around 59-60% after those first 6 games of the season that he needed to shake of the post-surgery rust and remember that no one can stop him from getting to the rim 1-on-1, not even Giannis.

Then there's how good he's become at beating double teams, how much he creates for his team-mates, how much his gravity helps Brunson, and the way his hotstarts to games give Brunson the time he needs to feel a team out before taking over. Nevermind that if we want to give Jalen any rest this season we'll need Julius to drive the offense in those non-Brunson minutes.

[greekman]

it depends if brunson season was an anomaly

[cgf]

Brunson takes a whopping 27 shots a game in the playoffs & all of a sudden he’s better than Tatum

Brunson had a better season than Tatum.

Brunson shooting 27 times had similar efficiency as Tatum shooting 20 times.

Tatum ain’t better than him.

This may be biased, but defence is a thing too. In terms of clutch scoring and overall playmaking, im not going to argue Brunson vs Tatum (cos Brunson wins!). But tatum is much better in every other facet of the game. Having said that, its hard to compare players that play such different positions

That's certainly fair. Being biased in the other direction, I do think that Brunson's the more gifted & difficult-to-contain offensive player. But there's no arguing that Tatum has become an incomparably better defender than Jalen could ever be...nor that he has the better resume at this point.

I'm not a huge fan of "best player" conversations because team-building and chemistry are things, plus we all value different aspects of the game differently...but Tatum certainly has a clear case for having had the better career to this point.

[cgf]

it depends if brunson season was an anomaly

I mean the raw #s shot up after Randle went down with no RJ & IQ to pick up the slack, but his efficiency went down without Randle...and he was no less a killer in crunchtime the year before.

So depends on what you mean by an anomaly. Hopefully we won't need Brunson to do as much this season, and that keeps him fresher / more efficent.

[The4thHorseman]

The Knicks' odds to win the title at ESPN BET went from 16-1 to 10-1 after the trade. New York's odds had shortened to 8-1 by Friday, the second-best odds in the Eastern Conference behind the champion Boston Celtics, and third best overall. The Denver Nuggets have the shortest odds to win the title in the Western Conference at 15-2.

https://www.espn.com/espn/betting/story/_/id/40159558/betting-buzz-latest-sports-betting-odds-updates-changes-line-moves-industry-intel

[bronxknicksfan1]

If Brunson is non debatably better than brown, and brown is better than Tatum, than doesn't that make Brunson non debatably better than Tatum also?

He absolutely is.

Not overall career body wise work of play he ain't
Not even convinced he is a better player then Jaylen Brown either.

Brunson I feel reached his optimal peak as a player last season, whereas The Jays still have plenty of growth and improvement left in him.

Calling him better than Tatum is absolutely laughable, especially given the post season CD/Credentials of the two players

So, Brunson peaked on a team that was 3 starters down and he was forced to play through double/triple teams every game? Brunson peaked in only his 2nd year as a full time 1st option while Tatum/Brown still have plenty of growth and improvement in them after 5 years of being the top 2 options on their team?

In 8 seasons, Jaylen Brown has never even peaked as high as Jalen Brunson. He’s not better than him. He’s in the same tier as Randle if anything. Brunson and Tatum is where the debate lies and both are top 10.

[RHODEY]

He absolutely is.

Not overall career body wise work of play he ain't
Not even convinced he is a better player then Jaylen Brown either.

Brunson I feel reached his optimal peak as a player last season, whereas The Jays still have plenty of growth and improvement left in him.

Calling him better than Tatum is absolutely laughable, especially given the post season CD/Credentials of the two players

So, Brunson peaked on a team that was 3 starters down and he was forced to play through double/triple teams every game? Brunson peaked in only his 2nd year as a full time 1st option while Tatum/Brown still have plenty of growth and improvement in them after 5 years of being the top 2 options on their team?

In 8 seasons, Jaylen Brown has never even peaked as high as Jalen Brunson. He’s not better than him. He’s in the same tier as Randle if anything. Brunson and Tatum is where the debate lies and both are top 10.

Brunson wins that debate too.