2024-25 NBA Rookie Discussion Thread

[Bornstellar]

Dalton Knecht is not even in the list of this thread as a separat option

So? This thread was made before the season started. He was the 17th pick and there are a limited number of poll options...

Well it isn't October anymore. The poll should be constantly updated with relevant updates if it's going to be sticked. No excuses.

Who is making excuses? And if you scroll up you'll notice bisme already said he's going to make a new poll soon

[HotelVitale]

the advanced stats on McCain are nuts

is this dude about to be a perennial All Star?

Been really blown away by the consistency and efficiency. Dude seems legit.

One tough thing to predict is how much better he can get. The super impressive thing about him is that he's creating shots despite his size and athleticism limitations, and he mostly does that with smarts, motor, and quick trigger. But the skeptical part of me wonders if he can scale up much from here since he can't really increase his smarts, motor, or quick trigger much.

To be fair I see lots of ways he can improve with time--his driving into traffic is really sloppy, for example, and he also can be a much better passer once the game slows and he sees the whole court. But part of me does think his future/mature self might just be a more refined version of what he's doing right now. I.e. a nice solid offensive player but not a mega-star.

EDIT: Then again I probably should've learned from Maxey not to sleep on the hard-working upbeat guys who seem too dependent on hitting hard shots in tight windows. No reason not to think McCain has that rare gift to keep adapting and mastering really tough things.

[HotelVitale]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Interesting thing about this is that McCain's still at the top despite having an absurdly bad defensive #. I know he hasn't been good on defense but has he really been 6 times worse than Bub Carrington?

[KidPistol]

McCain looks like he will run away with the award and he also looks like a Steph Curry clone.

The only people who would make such an insane statement are:

- Hussien Fatal who thinks anyone who puts on a Sixers uniform is a god tier player
- People who never watched either Curry or McCain play.

He's not even in the same solar system, galaxy, or universe as Curry as a shooter or shot creator.

He's not Steph Curry and I can tell you as a Warriors fan, I don't think anyone is saying that. His style of play is similar to Steph's however. It's funny too because his jumpshot looks more like Klay's but other than that, he's efficient, can create his own shot, is already very elite in offball movement, and even his defense reminds me of Curry's (Not good but yeah.)

Is he a exact clone? No, but he's the closest in terms of the eye test.

[jasonxxx102]

McCain looks like he will run away with the award and he also looks like a Steph Curry clone.

The only people who would make such an insane statement are:

- Hussien Fatal who thinks anyone who puts on a Sixers uniform is a god tier player
- People who never watched either Curry or McCain play.

He's not even in the same solar system, galaxy, or universe as Curry as a shooter or shot creator.

He's not Steph Curry and I can tell you as a Warriors fan, I don't think anyone is saying that. His style of play is similar to Steph's however. It's funny too because his jumpshot looks more like Klay's but other than that, he's efficient, can create his own shot, is already very elite in offball movement, and even his defense reminds me of Curry's (Not good but yeah.)

Is he a exact clone? No, but he's the closest in terms of the eye test.

He's not even close to Curry imo with the exception of off-ball movement and movement shooting off screens.

He has excellent balance coming off screens to catch and shoot. That's a skill not many players have. Usually those are wing 3s but he's hit some ATBs as well.

What he's not even close to Curry with is pure shot creation. Curry is an elite ball handler. I haven't seen anything out of McCain that indicates elite ball handling skills. He's proficient enough to be a secondary ball handler is what I would say.

He also really lacks a knock-down pull up 3. Now maybe he's not empowered to take these because of his role so much but Curry is just in another universe when it comes to pull up 3pt shot making.

Now that's not to mention Curry's range and gravity. McCain doesn't have serious range, at least he hasn't shown it so far in the NBA.

[jasonxxx102]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Interesting thing about this is that McCain's still at the top despite having an absurdly bad defensive #. I know he hasn't been good on defense but has he really been 6 times worse than Bub Carrington?

Well McCain is undersized for a combo guard and doesn't have a crazy wingspan so his defensive ceiling is just low because of his body type.

Yes he is that much worse defensively than Carrington for the simple fact that he's 6'2 with a 6'3 wingspan vs Carrington who's 6'6 with a 6'8 wingspan

[HotelVitale]

[spoi]

Interesting thing about this is that McCain's still at the top despite having an absurdly bad defensive #. I know he hasn't been good on defense but has he really been 6 times worse than Bub Carrington?

Well McCain is undersized for a combo guard and doesn't have a crazy wingspan so his defensive ceiling is just low because of his body type.

Yes he is that much worse defensively than Carrington for the simple fact that he's 6'2 with a 6'3 wingspan vs Carrington who's 6'6 with a 6'8 wingspan

Gotcha, so you think he's been 6 times worse than Carrington on defense so far this year, and that you don't need to look at anything but his wingspan to confirm that.

[basketballRob]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Interesting thing about this is that McCain's still at the top despite having an absurdly bad defensive #. I know he hasn't been good on defense but has he really been 6 times worse than Bub Carrington?

-1.1 isn't bad for a rookie.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[OkcSinceSGA]

Read on Twitter

Legendary centers of the 90s like the young fella. I am a fan of his game also. I never understood why so many thought he wouldn’t translate to the NBA. Seemingly because he’s an old school paint big who was a bit older?

[HotelVitale]

[spoiler][tweet

Interesting thing about this is that McCain's still at the top despite having an absurdly bad defensive #. I know he hasn't been good on defense but has he really been 6 times worse than Bub Carrington?

-1.1 isn't bad for a rookie.

Interesting, I'm not a EPE guy but he's the worst on this list by a good measure so assumed it was pretty bad. In any case I don't have a problem with him being considered pretty weak on defense, just saying I'm not sure he's been substantially worse than every other rookie here.

[OkcSinceSGA]

It's crazy how rare it is for rookies to be positive impact players on metrics.

[jasonxxx102]

Interesting thing about this is that McCain's still at the top despite having an absurdly bad defensive #. I know he hasn't been good on defense but has he really been 6 times worse than Bub Carrington?

Well McCain is undersized for a combo guard and doesn't have a crazy wingspan so his defensive ceiling is just low because of his body type.

Yes he is that much worse defensively than Carrington for the simple fact that he's 6'2 with a 6'3 wingspan vs Carrington who's 6'6 with a 6'8 wingspan

Gotcha, so you think he's been 6 times worse than Carrington on defense so far this year, and that you don't need to look at anything but his wingspan to confirm that.

He is noticeably and measurably worse. Is it 6x or 2x or 10x? Who cares. You decide I'm not gonna argue with you over how many times worse one player is over the other. If you want to do that, go for it.

[XtremeDunkz]

RoY race is over. If you can find decent odds on McCain anywhere put the house on it

[eyeatoma]

Lol McCain clearly wants it!

Read on Twitter

[FarBeyondDriven]

The Wizards are back to their poverty ways, prioritizing showcasing veterans that won't command much if anything in a trade, over playing young guys and developing them to see what they have to work with going forward. These awful franchises never learn. It doesn't seem to matter who the owner, G.M. or head coach is either apparently. I was kinda impressed by the new regime and thought they might be different but nope. Playing Brogdon over Carrington and George makes no sense for a tanking team. There shouldn't be a single fan happy about this or that wants to see him play over the kids. Just be happy anyone will give you anything and ship these veterans out at the deadline

[FrodoBaggins]

Seasonal 2024-25 EPM has dropped: https://dunksandthrees.com/stats/player

Here's the top four for rookies:

McCain: +2.4 [+3.2 off; -0.8 def] [1.2 estimated wins]
Knecht: +1.8 [+2.7 off; -0.9 def] [1.0 estimated wins]
Edey: +1.1 [+0.8 off; +0.3 def] [0.7 estimated wins]
Wells: -0.1 [-1.0 off; +1.0 def] [0.8 estimated wins]

I'm pretty sure I didn't miss a name. Edey truthers looking good. The only rookie to be a positive on both ends, and his numbers include his horrific start to the season. Remove those first 4-5 games and he's probably right there with McCain.

Here's the numbers for other rookies:

Castle: -1.2 [-1.7 off; +0.4 def]
da Silva: -1.2 [-0.8 off; -0.4 def]
Dunn: -1.5 [-1.0 off; -0.4 def]
Filipowski: -1.9 [-1.0 off; -0.9 def]
Risacher: -2.0 [-1.8 off; -0.1 def]
Clingan: -2.4 [-0.9 off; -1.5 def]
Sheppard: -3.0 [-2.5 off; -0.4 def]
Missi: -3.4 [-1.8 off; -1.6 def]
Carrington: -3.7 [-2.1 off; -1.6 def]
Holland: -4.1 [-3.5 off; -0.5 def]
Buzelis: -4.5 [-4.4 off; -0.1 def]
Salaun: -4.6 [-4.2 off; -0.4 def]
Sarr: -5.0 [-2.8 off; -2.2 def]
Collier: -5.7 [-5.4 off; -0.4 def]
Cody Williams: -6.2 [-5.2 off; -1.0 def]
Shead: -6.2 [-4.5 off; -1.7 def]

[FarBeyondDriven]

Seasonal 2024-25 EPM has dropped: https://dunksandthrees.com/stats/player

Here's the top four for rookies:

McCain: +2.4 [+3.2 off; -0.8 def] [1.2 estimated wins]
Knecht: +1.8 [+2.7 off; -0.9 def] [1.0 estimated wins]
Edey: +1.1 [+0.8 off; +0.3 def] [0.7 estimated wins]
Wells: -0.1 [-1.0 off; +1.0 def] [0.8 estimated wins]

I'm pretty sure I didn't miss a name. Edey truthers looking good. The only rookie to be a positive on both ends, and his numbers include his horrific start to the season. Remove those first 4-5 games and he's probably right there with McCain.

Here's the numbers for other rookies:

Castle: -1.2 [-1.7 off; +0.4 def]
da Silva: -1.2 [-0.8 off; -0.4 def]
Dunn: -1.5 [-1.0 off; -0.4 def]
Filipowski: -1.9 [-1.0 off; -0.9 def]
Risacher: -2.0 [-1.8 off; -0.1 def]
Clingan: -2.4 [-0.9 off; -1.5 def]
Sheppard: -3.0 [-2.5 off; -0.4 def]
Missi: -3.4 [-1.8 off; -1.6 def]
Carrington: -3.7 [-2.1 off; -1.6 def]
Holland: -4.1 [-3.5 off; -0.5 def]
Buzelis: -4.5 [-4.4 off; -0.1 def]
Salaun: -4.6 [-4.2 off; -0.4 def]
Sarr: -5.0 [-2.8 off; -2.2 def]
Collier: -5.7 [-5.4 off; -0.4 def]
Cody Williams: -6.2 [-5.2 off; -1.0 def]
Shead: -6.2 [-4.5 off; -1.7 def]

EPM is almost entirely useless especially for rookies not getting consistent minutes or in a defined role with consistent teammates. Literally tells you nothing because there are so many variables outside of a player's control.

[akhan786]

Thank God OKC didn’t take McCain

[HotelVitale]

Well McCain is undersized for a combo guard and doesn't have a crazy wingspan so his defensive ceiling is just low because of his body type.

Yes he is that much worse defensively than Carrington for the simple fact that he's 6'2 with a 6'3 wingspan vs Carrington who's 6'6 with a 6'8 wingspan

Gotcha, so you think he's been 6 times worse than Carrington on defense so far this year, and that you don't need to look at anything but his wingspan to confirm that.

He is noticeably and measurably worse. Is it 6x or 2x or 10x? Who cares. You decide I'm not gonna argue with you over how many times worse one player is over the other. If you want to do that, go for it.

C'mon, bud, I gave you attitude because you made the odd decision to argue exactly that, and because your literal argument for it was 'yes McCain is aboslutely 6 times worse than Carrington on defense, and the reason is that his wingpsan and height are smaller.' It's right there.

If you meant to say something subtler than that, or based on some observations or whatever, I'm all ears. I am actually interested in McCain vs other rookies on defense, and I do think he's been pretty bad. But can't do much work with 'everyone knows every small guard ever is horrendous in defense while every medium-big one is great.'

[Pattycakes]

Read on Twitter

Legendary centers of the 90s like the young fella. I am a fan of his game also. I never understood why so many thought he wouldn’t translate to the NBA. Seemingly because he’s an old school paint big who was a bit older?

12 year olds who have no idea of what a center even is were bearish on Zach and Donovan.

And casual fans whose opinion are about as valuable as the former.

These guys were clearly needed in the league