Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth

[LegendOfSalmons]

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I call BS. The players wanted him to be hard on Jokic? C'mon. Murray I can understand, but Jokic has literally carried the team and had them as a top seed before this meltdown. Imagine, none of this might have happened if Westbrook made that layup against the Wolves.

[RRFB]

Whoever asks why the answer is here from 34:36 to 49:56

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Some pretty eye opening stuff in here. Honestly makes you wonder why this didn’t happen even sooner.

The timing is really only bad for the optics imo. If you know Malone’s lost the locker room and that Booth isn’t the guy, why delay the inevitable? Desperate times call for desperate measures, and we see coaching changes give teams energy all the time (albeit typically not this late in the season). There’s no difference between a first round exit and second round exit for this roster. The problem is, from the outside looking in, this makes the org look like it has no idea what it’s doing.

But above all else, this is just a sad day for Nuggets fans. There’s no guarantee Jokic becomes he who he has without Malone, and there’s definitely no guarantee Denver ever wins a title without him. Malone has been an incredible voice for Nuggets fans over the years and he will be missed, but he he’s rightfully a Nuggets legend for life.

[PlatinumState]

Was Phil Jackson ever hard on MJ, Kobe, Shaq? Of course not. You cant be hard on you superstar players. People buy tickets to see the stars not the coaches

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Awful move.

Malone is a good coach who became the scapegoat. I'm not even sure any Nuggets fan wanted this to happen either.

Why is it always people who aren't a fan of the team that say things like this?

Literally ever Nuggets fan i've seen on this forum wants him gone. Jokic can only save him for so long.

Every fan of every team wants to fire their coach, including Warriors/Spurs/Heat fans. The worst source for whether a coach should be fired is the fanbase.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Awful move.

Malone is a good coach who became the scapegoat. I'm not even sure any Nuggets fan wanted this to happen either.

Why is it always people who aren't a fan of the team that say things like this?

Literally ever Nuggets fan i've seen on this forum wants him gone. Jokic can only save him for so long.

Every fan of every team wants to fire their coach, including Warriors/Spurs/Heat fans. The worst source for whether a coach should be fired is the fanbase.

Plenty of nuggets fans in this thread have put forth exstensive posts that shows why they're happy Malone is out. I'd much rather trust that than - He won a title how do you fire him?

[Helsbyte]

Is Ted Lasso available?

[Chuck Everett]

Well why weren't these offered to keep him? Alternatively, Booth was the best choice? But who else *did* Booth draft vs. who was available? Who gave the massive Murray contract? Let good role players walk - sure they're not doing as well on other teams, but they proved their value to Nugs. I get going younger, but then handing out a huge contract to JM and not landing late picks and not stockpiling any is brutal.

This is a lotto team without Jokic. That's precarious and not sustainable for a contender.

They won an NBA title without Masai and Connelly. By the way, NBA fans are on Masai's neck saying he's become Joe Dumars as a GM, so we need to stop with the revisionist history here. Connelly was called dumb for the Gobert trade, then praised up until the WCF, and then called a moron again once KAT was traded. He also is the one who gave Michael Porter Jr. a max contract extension early, for no reason.

The Nuggets are a promote from within front office. The following guys have been in the GM/VP of Basketball Operations seat, all left for more money or a bigger opportunity at some point:

Pete D'Alessandro
Masai Ujiri
Arturas Karnisovas
Tim Connelly

Calvin Booth was just the latest person in their front office to be promoted after being assistant GM. Their current assistant GM is Tommy Balcetis. I'm guessing, based on the Nuggets history, that he is just going to slide into that job.

Letting Bruce Brown walk is not on the Nuggets, because they didn't let him walk. He opted out and they couldn't beat the Pacers offer. KCP took a better offer than Booth was allowed to make by ownership. If you want to blame him for not being able to convince KCP to leave 10-15 million on the table, so be it. As for the Jamal Murray extension, ownership has to eat that as much as Booth does. They chose to reward someone who was a 1B in their only championship. I'm not going to kill them for that. In his career,Murray has played like a superstar in the playoffs, so maybe they don't care about his lack of regular season dominance (because the NBA regular season does not matter).

Booth drafted players that Malone wouldn't play, that's an issue. Everyone says the players suck. Harteinstein didn't play for Malone (and look at him now). Neither did Jay Huff (and Memphis found value in him). I mean, the Nuggets historically have found good young talent and developed it as it was the only way they could win since they never get anyone in FA.

Most teams are lotto teams without their MVP level talent. That's not saying much. The only one that probably isn't is Boston (and some of that is attributed to being in the East). How good is OKC without Shai? Sacramento level?

[WuTang_CMB]

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[Special_Puppy]

Well why weren't these offered to keep him? Alternatively, Booth was the best choice? But who else *did* Booth draft vs. who was available? Who gave the massive Murray contract? Let good role players walk - sure they're not doing as well on other teams, but they proved their value to Nugs. I get going younger, but then handing out a huge contract to JM and not landing late picks and not stockpiling any is brutal.

This is a lotto team without Jokic. That's precarious and not sustainable for a contender.

They won an NBA title without Masai and Connelly. By the way, NBA fans are on Masai's neck saying he's become Joe Dumars as a GM, so we need to stop with the revisionist history here. Connelly was called dumb for the Gobert trade, then praised up until the WCF, and then called a moron again once KAT was traded. He also is the one who gave Michael Porter Jr. a max contract extension early, for no reason.

The Nuggets are a promote from within front office. The following guys have been in the GM/VP of Basketball Operations seat, all left for more money or a bigger opportunity at some point:

Pete D'Alessandro
Masai Ujiri
Arturas Karnisovas
Tim Connelly

Calvin Booth was just the latest person in their front office to be promoted after being assistant GM. Their current assistant GM is Tommy Balcetis. I'm guessing, based on the Nuggets history, that he is just going to slide into that job.

Letting Bruce Brown walk is not on the Nuggets, because they didn't let him walk. He opted out and they couldn't beat the Pacers offer. KCP took a better offer than Booth was allowed to make by ownership. If you want to blame him for not being able to convince KCP to leave 10-15 million on the table, so be it. As for the Jamal Murray extension, ownership has to eat that as much as Booth does. They chose to reward someone who was a 1B in their only championship. I'm not going to kill them for that. In his career,Murray has played like a superstar in the playoffs, so maybe they don't care about his lack of regular season dominance (because the NBA regular season does not matter).

Booth drafted players that Malone wouldn't play, that's an issue. Everyone says the players suck. Harteinstein didn't play for Malone (and look at him now). Neither did Jay Huff (and Memphis found value in him). I mean, the Nuggets historically have found good young talent and developed it as it was the only way they could win since they never get anyone in FA.

Most teams are lotto teams without their MVP level talent. That's not saying much. The only one that probably isn't is Boston (and some of that is attributed to being in the East). How good is OKC without Shai? Sacramento level?

Probably a +5.5 net rating team without SGA based on their level of talent and how well they do with SGA off the floor

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Why is it always people who aren't a fan of the team that say things like this?

Literally ever Nuggets fan i've seen on this forum wants him gone. Jokic can only save him for so long.

Every fan of every team wants to fire their coach, including Warriors/Spurs/Heat fans. The worst source for whether a coach should be fired is the fanbase.

Plenty of nuggets fans in this thread have put forth exstensive posts that shows why they're happy Malone is out. I'd much rather trust that than - He won a title how do you fire him?

The problem with fanbases and coaching is fans can pretend they can do better than the guy coaching, because a lot of what a coach does comes down to decisions that fans can constantly second guess, such as minutes, feeding the hot hand, rotations, last second play, etc. When a player sucks the fan doesn't think "well I could play better", so second guessing the coach comes much more naturally.

In addition, its easy to replace a coach, they don't have guaranteed contracts and the NBA (along with most professional sports) have created a culture where firing the coach every season is considered acceptable. Its much more difficult to replace players, so the fans always look to switch out the coach first.

None of this is to say I'm an expert on Malone or Denver's situation, just pointing out, a coach's own fanbase wanting him gone is nothing unique to Denver, it happens to every fanbase, even the ones with mainstays like Kerr/Pop/Spo.

[Capn'O]

It's not like that at all. Creating upheaval with a team before the playoffs is basically punting the playoffs in front of the team and fanbase. You're basically saying "well, we were gonna lose anyway."

yes, exactly. youre basically conceding that this season is over for you and its time to move on to the next... which is an INSANE thing to do 3 games away from the playoffs when you're the 4 seed and have probably the best player in basketball on your team. it just doesnt make sense. even if you HATE Malone, and youre SURE hes not gonna be there next season, youd be crazy to think nuking the coaching staff right before the playoffs makes winning a title MORE likely. so youre just punting the season. its all very bizarre.

Murray is out. What chance does Denver really have?

Even with no title, they could win a series. Two? Pull a fun upset. Create a moment for the fans.

[Tracymcgoaty]

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Westbrook the terrorist.

First it was the clippers. Oh look at Brodie Lakers held him back.

Then it's Denver - Oh look at Brodie lakers held him back.

Westbrook for Guangzhou tigers - Oh look at Brodie lakers held him back.

[LikeABosh]

It's April 8th. Why are they firing coaches this late in the season? Are the Clippers gonna fire Ty Lue in the middle of a playoff game? Lol

[WuTang_CMB]

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[SpurNani]

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I call BS. The players wanted him to be hard on Jokic? C'mon. Murray I can understand, but Jokic has literally carried the team and had them as a top seed before this meltdown. Imagine, none of this might have happened if Westbrook made that layup against the Wolves.

I mean, some of Jokic's defensive efforts have been pretty bad. He doesn't contest shots, doesn't close out on shooters. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the teammates were frustrated being constantly lambasted by Malone and Jokic not getting any blame for putting the defense in bad positions.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Every fan of every team wants to fire their coach, including Warriors/Spurs/Heat fans. The worst source for whether a coach should be fired is the fanbase.

Plenty of nuggets fans in this thread have put forth exstensive posts that shows why they're happy Malone is out. I'd much rather trust that than - He won a title how do you fire him?

The problem with fanbases and coaching is fans can pretend they can do better than the guy coaching, because a lot of what a coach does comes down to decisions that fans can constantly second guess, such as minutes, feeding the hot hand, rotations, last second play, etc. When a player sucks the fan doesn't think "well I could play better", so second guessing the coach comes much more naturally.

In addition, its easy to replace a coach, they don't have guaranteed contracts and the NBA (along with most professional sports) have created a culture where firing the coach every season is considered acceptable. Its much more difficult to replace players, so the fans always look to switch out the coach first.

None of this is to say I'm an expert on Malone or Denver's situation, just pointing out, a coach's own fanbase wanting him gone is nothing unique to Denver, it happens to every fanbase, even the ones with mainstays like Kerr/Pop/Spo.

True i agree with that 100%. But when you have a generational superstar in Jokic he makes the coach not the other way around. The fact that Malone couldn't prevent a total collapse in those ten minutes Jokic sat every game is probably a big part of him being fired as well.

They had to consult Jokic before firing Malone.

[Mr Peanut]

Wow, dropping both your GM and coach literally days before the playoffs feels unprecedented.

I can understand firing Booth - he hasn't made many good moves since Connelly left. But I would've thought Malone had a longer leash given his history.

[darkse1d]

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this is not even shocking anymore. Russ is on his 5th team in 6 years and everywhere he goes, coaches seem to get fired. He's just not a winning basketball player.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Im sorry i just had to.

[OxAndFox]

Surprised at the timing, but that is all.

I'm not sure Malone gets another shot right away.
He's always at odds with the FO it seems. Which GM wants to add that to their working life. LOL.