Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers

[fart]

I thought 2 years 30 million would be more than generous. That is ridiculous.

[Doctor MJ]

If Kobe's not willing to do that, well then that's called not really wanting to win.

Well, to be fair, I suppose one could argue that he still wants to win; but only on his terms. That is, by ensuring that whomever they sign isn't a max level player that would take the shine from Bryant en route to a title.

If he ain't the man, then don't bother.

Or in other words, he's only interested in winning because he thinks that winning in a particular manner will help his own individual glory.

[Doctor MJ]

Every ring Duncan has ever won he's done making less money than Kobe will be making in his 20th year in the NBA. Think about that for a second, and then ponder that Kobe's not getting anywhere with the Lakers without the Lakers acquiring guys who cost serious money.

Well good for Tim. He has less rings and less money. But he has won the hearts and minds of everyone!

See this is where I run into such frustration. People will forever think that Kobe's rings will justify his behavior, when the only reason he has 5 rings is because a lot of lucky things went his way. Not the least of which, having a superior teammate lead him to the majority of those rings.

C'mon man, all things equal, a player giving his organization more room to work with is a good thing. Why is that so hard to agree on?

[MisterWestside]

However, for players like Kobe, TD and the like are not graded on title-worthy teams they are graded on winning.

Actually teams are graded on winning, not individual players. Like the Los Angeles Lakers.

That's supposed to be the team that you're rooting for, and they've been screwed over.

[Blame Rasho]

Every ring Duncan has ever won he's done making less money than Kobe will be making in his 20th year in the NBA. Think about that for a second, and then ponder that Kobe's not getting anywhere with the Lakers without the Lakers acquiring guys who cost serious money.

Well good for Tim. He has less rings and less money. But he has won the hearts and minds of everyone!

This is a bad post...

[Doctor MJ]

Would it be a success if Kobe made the NBA finals and lost with a pay cut?

Now you're just being argumentative.

If the ball had bounced slightly differently last year, Duncan would have another ring right now.

haha now I am argumentative? man no love.......but wait I took less money to post here as opposed to other forums . doesn't that buy me anything?

I wasn't actually discussing some of the talking points that are flying around? Well how about this... if the ball bounced slightly differnetly than last year.. would Lebron James be the Lebron James we talk about so fondly today? I mean he took a pay cut and would have had a 1-3 finals record.

Eh, that's not actually a rebuttal.

The point is that there is luck involved in this game and that you can't judge whether or not a decision made sense simply because one particular ball went in or bounced out. As such when we speak of people talking "so fondly" of LeBron only because of the lack, it goes without saying that I think those people are misguided.

[LLcoleJ]

Saying stuff like "5 rings" is just a way of trying to deflect the substance of an argument. The fact that Kobe possesses 5 rings is completely inconsequential as to the merits or demerits of criticism directed his way. The substance of an argument is independent of the person making it, so when someone brandishes that "five rings" thing, it is worthy of mockery, if for no other reason then the person saying it doesn't realize how irrelevant it is.

whats not relevant ? past success?

NBA teams don't operate in secrecy. Every fan that can use Google knows exactly what the cap number is going to be going forward, they can extrapolate what various contracts and holds will cost 1, 2, 3 years from now, they can come to at least an approximation, they can check that against lists of pending free agents, or they can check it against players that the Lakers might conceivably target in trades, even though the Lakers have nothing to trade, and in just a couple of minutes you can get a pretty good vision of what Kobe's deal means for the team going forward, and it just isn't good. How could anyone spin it otherwise?

Boom you nailed it. So, tell me guy with Google. Lakers should have renounced Kobe and all of their cap holds to sign 2 FAs? Who Lebron ? Sweet. Then what? Talk to Melo ? yeah budddy.
Should the team completely purge everyone and hope to get back in 5 years from now? What plan are you proposing? get on google and get back to me.

Why do some of you choose to delude yourself with hopes of a secret plan? Repeating stuff like "we don't know that they're up to" or "they've got a plan, just because we can't see it", what makes anyone think they've got a plan? Nothing the Lakers have done since Jerry Buss yielded control of the team to his children screams chessmaster.

Also, I don't think there is a 'secret plan' because well that's over dramatizing a pretty basic assumption that a successful team is doing things in their interests to continue to be successful.

[mid-post]

Kobe's trying to eclipse KG for all-time salary leader but it's going to be hard. KG will be at $327 million after the 2015 season and Kobe will be at around $300 mil.

[LLcoleJ]

We can debate how "real" Lebron's paycut is, but that last bit is exactly backwards. Lebron could've blown out his knee the day after he signed that deal and never played another game of professional basketball. He had and continues have considerable risk in his salary earnings because his healthy is not guaranteed. Kobe, in contrast, has already played 20 years and amassed an enormous amount of wealth; there is no question that he will earn obscene amounts of money because he already has, in fact, earned it.

so one player has a risk of not maximizing his earning potential and the other simply has earned more so he should shut up?

[Free Rider]

Boom you nailed it. So, tell me guy with Google. Lakers should have renounced Kobe and all of their cap holds to sign 2 FAs? Who Lebron ? Sweet. Then what? Talk to Melo ? yeah budddy.
Should the team completely purge everyone and hope to get back in 5 years from now? What plan are you proposing? get on google and get back to me.

Do you really see no middle ground between renouncing Kobe and paying him ~$24 mil per year in his late 30s following an Achilles injury. Do you believe the only two alternatives are getting a Lebron/Melo type duo or giving Kobe $48 million? I agree that the free agent landscape wasn't all too promising but surely that doesn't automatically mean that you just throw whatever you can at Kobe.

[LLcoleJ]

Well good for Tim. He has less rings and less money. But he has won the hearts and minds of everyone!

Since when did a player's salary matter to you? You as the fan want your team to win as much as possible, right?

Does it make sense for you to brag about Bryant's contract when it is hindering your team's ability to compete? As opposed to a pay cut that would give the Lakers a better shot at a title?

First off, a players salary means nothing to me. In fact, I am only arguing this position because their a salary cap discussion that is really at heart here now how much money people I don't know make.

And I am not bragging about his contract.... at all. It is what it is. As far as a better shot at the title.. that has not been determined yet.

[MisterWestside]

Or in other words, he's only interested in winning because he thinks that winning in a particular manner will help his own individual glory.

Yep. He's chasing the MJ legend.

Which is flawed in the first place, of course. Nothing encourages more irrational thinking than the "SIX RINGZZZ AS DA MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111" narrative.

[Ozark]

That's the point. LeBron took a paycut at a time when he was many times the player Kobe is now and had earned far less money in his career.

Lebron shaved a couple buck off the top of his contract in an no sales tax state to play with 2 other guys who talk near max deals to play with Lebron. I am sorry but is this scenario possible this off season? What am I missing here.

He also took that deal in a time where he will get a couple more max deals left.

I am not sure what your angle is or why you are getting bent out of shape for going on and on about with DoctorMJ. I mean Kobe has made 279,738,062 million dollars over his career according to BR. He is making over 30 million this year. In all likelyhood... I think it is safe to assume that Kobe will have steaks in the freezer for quite a while. If it is a matter of principal that Kobe gets paid more than some of his fellow peers, fine we can all buy that but you have to acknowledge what DoctorMJ points out that it gets exponentially harder to get a title contending team with Kobe getting such a big chunk of the salary cap. It isn't rocket science, it is common sense.

False.

People that rich don't put steaks in the freezer.

They eat never frozen beef slaughtered locally, or perhaps Kobe has Kobe beef flown in from Japan for his personal consumption.

Even I'm too rich to eat frozen beef.

[Edrees]

Why does Kobe still care so much about the money! If he really really wanted another title he would have offered the lakers to take 15 million. Not really confident in his drive to win another title, in contrast to someone like Duncan who clearly wanted another title so bad he took a ginormous paycut. I don't like the 23 million number, that's too high...

[Peregrine01]

Every ring Duncan has ever won he's done making less money than Kobe will be making in his 20th year in the NBA. Think about that for a second, and then ponder that Kobe's not getting anywhere with the Lakers without the Lakers acquiring guys who cost serious money.

Well good for Tim. He has less rings and less money. But he has won the hearts and minds of everyone!

See this is where I run into such frustration. People will forever think that Kobe's rings will justify his behavior, when the only reason he has 5 rings is because a lot of lucky things went his way. Not the least of which, having a superior teammate lead him to the majority of those rings.

C'mon man, all things equal, a player giving his organization more room to work with is a good thing. Why is that so hard to agree on?

The one unifying thing about all fans is irrationality. Particularly with fans of Kobe.

Before you call me a hater, I admire and respect Kobe enormously. I don't think I've ever seen someone with as much drive as him. His desire to get the absolute most out himself is nearly pathological.

That said, he has always been about getting his. Whether it's dictating that the offense revolve around him or negotiating a new contract, he has to have it his way. This is, IMO, the biggest difference between him and Jordan. Jordan conceded some as his career went on, Kobe never did.

I find it tragic that someone who has mastered his craft to such a degree has this fundamental flaw that prevents him from being still greater.

[LLcoleJ]

I am not sure what your angle is or why you are getting bent out of shape for going on and on about with DoctorMJ. I mean Kobe has made 279,738,062 million dollars over his career according to BR. He is making over 30 million this year. In all likelyhood... I think it is safe to assume that Kobe will have steaks in the freezer for quite a while. If it is a matter of principal that Kobe gets paid more than some of his fellow peers, fine we can all buy that but you have to acknowledge what DoctorMJ points out that it gets exponentially harder to get a title contending team with Kobe getting such a big chunk of the salary cap. It isn't rocket science, it is common sense.

I am not an advocate for ANY players salary in sports. I realize it is part of the equation and something teams have to work around.

THat being said, I have been pretty clear about some things here.
1) The Lakers made this deal with a plan to win in mind
2) The Lakers have a history of spending money and doing the right moves
3) Until I see a consistent pattern of ineptitude from the Lakers ( missing the playoffs with super stars, not being active in trades, not drafting well ( if ever) and or being a treadmill team ) then I will panic. I am not panicking about this.

As far as how much money Kobe has made or will make... don't care. I just trust that the powers that be know what they are doing because their is a lot on the line.

What have I missed ?

[MisterWestside]

First off, a players salary means nothing to me. In fact, I am only arguing this position because their a salary cap discussion that is really at heart here now how much money people I don't know make.

Huh?

And I am not bragging about his contract.... at all. It is what it is. As far as a better shot at the title.. that has not been determined yet.

I just proved this a couple pages back using simple logic. Go back and read it.

[Bruh Man]

Where do you draw the line though? Theoretically Kobe can sign with the Spurs for the minimum and that would give him the best chance to win another title, if both Lakers and Kobe feel like they can construct a championship roster with his contract then more power to them. Look at all the money Brooklyn has spent and they are in a terrible situation right now.

In general that's a great question to ask.

A player taking the minimum to leap on to some other contender clearly really wants to win, but no one serious criticizes a guy for preferring to stay with his long-time team.

There's a difference though between staying on your team while taking a more significant salary, and doing it while taking a mega-salary when your team desperately needs more talent on its roster.

Kobe's saying that he just agreed to the offer, and to some extent I understand him being unwilling to say "Oh, you're too kind, I'll only take half of that", but he should be thinking things through here. If he's being entirely rational, he should know that by agreeing to this contract, he's basically saying, "Yeah, I know we probably can't win very much, but I'm happy to keep doing my thing here if that's what you want".

And if he's doing that, well then he doesn't really care all that much about winning at this point in his career, right?

Well I don't mind if people think he doesn't care much about winning because that isn't true, all I know is the Lakers organization is top notch and Mitch is a great GM. I can't even imagine your scenario playing out, your basically saying that Kobe should have declined the Lakers offer and taken less. If anything you should be mad at the Lakers for making that offer.

The way everyone is reacting you would think Lakers had a great shot at winning a title the next 2 years had Kobe taken 16 million instead. Where was all this optimism in the offseason? Because all I recall hearing is how the Lakers were done for the foreseeable future.

[nugzin2040]

I'm sure others have said the same thing, but this is just a terrible deal for the Lakers. At the minimum, they should have waited until later in the season to find out what kind of impact Kobe will bring after his injury/rehab.

At least in the immediate future, have to assume Lakers have a plan to bring in one more star to pair with Kobe. Would think it's going to be tough for them to get much more then that.

[fluffernutter]

Let's remember the many cases where fan favorites and all-time greats were released (Montana, Payton) in order to move ahead for the good of the team. In a lot of ways the NFL because of injuries and whatnot is a lot more of a business and less 'emotional'. Nobody in the NFL gives a great player a massive 2 year lump sum (essentially) at the end of their career off an injury. Nobody. In fact they are more likely to trade the all-time great to move on with a rebuild/another featured player. They do what is good for the team, and the fans whine for a while and then move on as the wins pile up.

That is what takes guts and foresight.

Think about what Duncan did, and it's ripple effects. The BEST player on the team takes a massive pay cut. Now another player on the team has a contract up for negotiation. There is a lot of incentive for that player to sign for "less" than they could otherwise - for the good of the team. It was good enough for Duncan, heck it's good enough for me.

Now look at Kobe and the Lakers. Why would anyone in their right mind EVER take a pay cut to play for the Lakers? The best player on the team has made it abundantly clear he wants an absurd contract, period. The ripple effects are going to go rippling for years, I suspect.

Yes, the Lakers might attract some free agents. But you better believe they are gonna pay through the nose for them.

Just all in all a terrible way to do business. Why didn't the Lakers let the year play out, and see how Kobe holds up? "Hurts his feelings?" "Want to respect a legend?"

Are you running a business or a emotional support group? If it's the latter, your fans have reason to complain, loudly, because they don't want to see fat happy well-paid pros losing. They want to see winning.

(Plus of course the over-the-top constant stroking of the ego, I'm all about Winning. It's sickening. Really? Really?)