2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#461 » by The_Hater » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:00 am

The411 wrote:Lebron is 13th in PER, 15th in WS 13th in WS/48 and 8th in VORP ... he's not a candidate right now.

1. CP3
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kawhi
4. RWB
5. Derozan
6. Durant
7. Curry


Harden is out due to 9th in the West.


If the Cavs finished 1st overall or even first in the east, Bron will be in the top 5 for sure. The best player on the best team theory. The fact that he's still widely considered the best player in the world. Stats won't matter. And Harden's stats are too good to ignore right now. One day after being 9th in the west, they're now tied for 4th.

Derozan almost certainly fades from this list and I doubt Butler gets much love in the end even if he maintains his current numbers. I suspect that we'll see the exact same 7 names on top of this list in the end that was predicted in the preseason.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#462 » by SpreeS » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:52 pm

There are no favorite at the moment.

1. Harden and Westbrook with super stats and mediocre teams results, take away MVP points from each other. They are similar now.
2. LJB is best pl, but he is coasting at the moment... 23 pts not so much, including over 9 AST.
3. KD and SC also take away MVP points from each other.
4. Kawaki, Griffin, Paul - LAC and SAN wount have better results than CAVS and GSW and players stats wount be better than KD, LJB and Curry.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#463 » by Gibson22 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:01 pm

The411 wrote:Lebron is 13th in PER, 15th in WS 13th in WS/48 and 8th in VORP ... he's not a candidate right now.

1. CP3
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kawhi
4. RWB
5. Derozan
6. Durant
7. Curry


Harden is out due to 9th in the West.


I never saw a worse ranking than this. Never in my life. Are we talking about what the mvp award ranking would look if the nba ended today or about how we think in should be?
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#464 » by INKtastic » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:34 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
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Triples333 wrote:Again another person not distinguishing between the reg season grind and the end of the playoffs. Also please understand that other than most, I consider him being the only player on his team opting for rest on their tough road b2b game (hint: these are generally the games he sits... i.e. The toughest ones to win) a big negative towards an MVP campaign. Proving your worth by not showing up doesn't do it for me.


LeBron lost the MVP to Steven Nash one year for this very reason. Except in that case the writers/voters who used the Suns record without Nash got the record completely wrong. Then Nash won it again the next season for having a better season than his first year, never mind that LeBron was vastly better both years.


Lebron wasn't even in the discussion in 2005. It was all Nash vs. Shaq. Plus, 2nd year Lebron was definitely not "vastly better". What a terrible take.


I got the years Nash won mixed up. 2006 is the year I'm talking about. Nash won, LeBron was substantially better.

LeBron had 31.4 points, 7.0 assists, 6.1 rebounds, and a PER of 28.17.
Nash had 18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 4.2 rebounds, and a PER of 23.29.

Two reasons I heard voters give for giving it to Nash.
- If we gave it to Nash last year, we have to give it to him this year. That was ridiculous considering how much LeBron improved.
- I can't give it to LeBron, we can't give the MVP to a player who will lose in the first round. Turns out Nash lost in the first round while LeBron was a rebound away from the ECF.

And the year prior, voters did say they were voting for Nash because of their awful record without him, only they got the record completely wrong and keep repeating the wrong record.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#465 » by Rapcity_11 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:39 pm

INKtastic wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
INKtastic wrote:
LeBron lost the MVP to Steven Nash one year for this very reason. Except in that case the writers/voters who used the Suns record without Nash got the record completely wrong. Then Nash won it again the next season for having a better season than his first year, never mind that LeBron was vastly better both years.


Lebron wasn't even in the discussion in 2005. It was all Nash vs. Shaq. Plus, 2nd year Lebron was definitely not "vastly better". What a terrible take.


I got the years Nash won mixed up. 2006 is the year I'm talking about. Nash won, LeBron was substantially better.

LeBron had 31.4 points, 7.0 assists, 6.1 rebounds, and a PER of 28.17.
Nash had 18.8 points, 10.5 assists, 4.2 rebounds, and a PER of 23.29.

Two reasons I heard voters give for giving it to Nash.
- If we gave it to Nash last year, we have to give it to him this year. That was ridiculous considering how much LeBron improved.
- I can't give it to LeBron, we can't give the MVP to a player who will lose in the first round. Turns out Nash lost in the first round while LeBron was a rebound away from the ECF.


Any of Nash, Dirk, LeBron or Kobe would have been fine picks. Nothing to get too bent out of shape over.

1. It was more about how well the Suns did without Amare. But ok.
2. The Suns made the WCF. AKA made it further than the Cavs. Come on man, get your facts straight.

The Suns went 2-5 without Nash. That's the record I remember hearing about. What do you remember?
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#466 » by Ballerhogger » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:40 pm

CP3
Westbrok
Harden are my current top 3 in no order.
Outside of top 3
Lebron
Leonard
Kevin Durant
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#467 » by Triples333 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:56 pm

As far as the first reporting of RPM results go, we've got:
https://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

1: CP3
2: Harden
3: Butler
4: Kawhi
5: Lebron
6: Curry
7: Westbrook
8: Durant
9: Kemba
10: Cousins

Offensively:

1: Harden
2: Curry
3: Paul
4: Westbrook
5: Lillard
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#468 » by binjumper » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:02 pm

no love for the leading scorer in the nba to at least be considered in the top 10.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#469 » by ThePersianFreak » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:40 pm

binjumper wrote:no love for the leading scorer in the nba to at least be considered in the top 10.


He's quite easily in the top 10. His defense is hurting his case though, Had he been a good defender he would've been in everybody's top 5.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#470 » by Gil » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:48 pm

binjumper wrote:no love for the leading scorer in the nba to at least be considered in the top 10.

He's doesn't play defense at all and isn't a playmaker. It's understandable.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#471 » by inquisitive » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:32 am

The magic number for Harden or Westb to win the MVP assuming they keep up the stats is 50 wins. Right now though, CP3 probably ahead in the race.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#472 » by DuckIII » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:35 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:CP3
Westbrok
Harden are my current top 3 in no order.
Outside of top 3
Lebron
Leonard
Kevin Durant


I don't think he'll necessarily keep up the pace, but as of right now any MVP list that completely omits Jimmy Butler is flawed.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#473 » by RaptorsLife » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:47 pm

binjumper wrote:no love for the leading scorer in the nba to at least be considered in the top 10.

eye test wise derozan aint no mvp candidate
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#474 » by RSP83 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:00 pm

Why do people show list that has Jimmy Butler name on it at the top 3, yet don't mention him at all like "oh that's a known bug/glitch".
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#475 » by ken6199 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:11 pm

The411 wrote:Lebron is 13th in PER, 15th in WS 13th in WS/48 and 8th in VORP ... he's not a candidate right now.

1. CP3
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kawhi
4. RWB
5. Derozan
6. Durant
7. Curry


Harden is out due to 9th in the West.


Quoting this for the 915th time, just to say this has to be THE worst ranking one can ever see on this site.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#476 » by Patches Perry » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:24 am

People throw Curry and Durant in the conversation out of necessity, but I think Draymond Green needs to be represented too. Obviously he won't win, but leading the Warriors in rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. He is their vocal leader, defensive quarterback and a primary distributor on offense. He is the guy that team can least afford to lose, since Curry, KD, Klay can pick up more scoring slack if 1 of the other 3 get hurt. Nobody can do what Draymond does.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#477 » by The411 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:45 am

ken6199 wrote:
The411 wrote:Lebron is 13th in PER, 15th in WS 13th in WS/48 and 8th in VORP ... he's not a candidate right now.

1. CP3
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kawhi
4. RWB
5. Derozan
6. Durant
7. Curry


Harden is out due to 9th in the West.


Quoting this for the 915th time, just to say this has to be THE worst ranking one can ever see on this site.


And clearly you know nothing about statistical analysis ...
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#478 » by ThePersianFreak » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:22 am

The411 wrote:
ken6199 wrote:
The411 wrote:Lebron is 13th in PER, 15th in WS 13th in WS/48 and 8th in VORP ... he's not a candidate right now.

1. CP3
2. Jimmy Butler
3. Kawhi
4. RWB
5. Derozan
6. Durant
7. Curry


Harden is out due to 9th in the West.


Quoting this for the 915th time, just to say this has to be THE worst ranking one can ever see on this site.


And clearly you know nothing about statistical analysis ...


MVP is not just based on statistical analysis. The fact that a player like Durant, who's an all time great scorer, is getting wide open shots after wide open shots has to be considered when you're talking about MVP ranking. Context matters buddy, it's not just pure statistical analysis.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#479 » by CnG » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:32 am

ThePersianFreak wrote:
The411 wrote:
ken6199 wrote:
Quoting this for the 915th time, just to say this has to be THE worst ranking one can ever see on this site.


And clearly you know nothing about statistical analysis ...


MVP is not just based on statistical analysis. The fact that a player like Durant, who's an all time great scorer, is getting wide open shots after wide open shots has to be considered when you're talking about MVP ranking. Context matters buddy, it's not just pure statistical analysis.


Lol?

This literally makes 0 logical sense.
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Re: 2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread 

Post#480 » by ThePersianFreak » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:39 am

CnG wrote:
ThePersianFreak wrote:
The411 wrote:
And clearly you know nothing about statistical analysis ...


MVP is not just based on statistical analysis. The fact that a player like Durant, who's an all time great scorer, is getting wide open shots after wide open shots has to be considered when you're talking about MVP ranking. Context matters buddy, it's not just pure statistical analysis.


Lol?

This literally makes 0 logical sense.


Actually it does a ton of sense. Almost everybody agrees that neither Durant nor Curry deserve to be the MVP because of the exact thing i just said. It's easy to shoot a career high from the field when you have the greatest shooter of all time and (arguably) another top 10 shooter of all time on your team. Durant stats won't impress voters because they believe he's joined a superteam that was still amazing without him, how can you say he's the MVP when they were historically good without him just months ago with the same core?!!

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