2017 Isaiah Thomas is better than any version of Iverson.

[kingofthecourt67]

It's possible to say IT is having an elite year without thinking he is better than AI.

You're knocking the inefficient style of play, but you're minimizing the impact of the games evolution. Literally the theory driving the game is different. This whole 3 point, FT or bust league is completely new. Iverson played In a style that was conducive to his era and the shortcomings of his Billy King built roster. You bring him into the league 5 years ago and let him develop with this new style of play, he would be better than IT.

You have to do all things equal or it's apples and oranges. You're knocking his style of play when that was what was prevalent back then. All things equal, AI is better.

[OdomFan]

Of course Thomas is a better point guard then Iverson ever was. That wasn't Iversons natural style of play. He was a shooting guard at best which is why he switched over and his career improved tremendously when he did.

[permaximum]

Sixers didn't have Ratliff in 2001 playoffs and the latter half of the season. They got 35-year old Mutombo by trading Ratliff. So you should better count only one as Iverson's supporting cast.

What a supporting cast!

"Coach" of the year! Are wa talking about coaches now?
"6th man" of the year! I mean what?
DPOY 35-year old Dikembe "No Offense" Mutombo.
And no names

Iverson beat the greatest playoff team of all time with this supporting cast. That's once in NBA history. Realgm fans first compared Iverson to "I can't shoot" Wade. Now they compare him to Isaiah. Next they'll compare him to Jennings.

Jordan, Kobe and Iverson are the best sgs of all time. You're insulting an MVP and 4-time scoring champion of the league with this comparison.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Sixers didn't have Ratliff in 2001 playoffs and the latter half of the season. They got 35-year old Mutombo by trading Ratliff. So you should better count only one as Iverson's supporting cast.

What a supporting cast!

"Coach" of the year! Are wa talking about coaches now?
"6th man" of the year! I mean what?
DPOY 35-year old Dikembe "No Offense" Mutombo.
And no names

Iverson beat the greatest playoff team of all time with this supporting cast. That's once in NBA history. Realgm fans first compared Iverson to "I can't shoot" Wade. Now they compare him to Isaiah. Next they'll compare him to Jennings.

Jordan, Kobe and Iverson are the best sgs of all time. You're insulting an MVP and 4-time scoring champion of the league with this comparison.

Again, Iverson's TS% was better than league average in his prime despite his all-time high usage. Iverson and T-Mac TS% are equal and they're not inefficient. They just played in a different era.

Iverson is not a top 3 SG.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Wade, West, Drexler, Gervin are all guys I have above AI.

[hisairness]

So this one poster claims AI would average 45 ppg today, is 2nd or 3rd best SG all time and was even a positive on defense because some bias writer gave him a DPOY vote....and people are still responding to his posts? AI was fun to watch, did some amazing things for a guy his size but the nostalgia factor is making some of his fans completely irrational when debating anything that involves him.

[KingDavid]

I agree he needs a hell of a lot more years if we are trying to compare the two players career. But this thread is about comparing single seasons. No one is saying IT is the superior player. This is about did IT just put up a single season better than any single season AI put up. I used the Chris Johnson to Walter Payton comparison eariler. Johnson has 1 season better than any single season Payton put up, but no one is saying Johnson is the better RB.

Ah OK, thanks for the correction.

Well there's no real dispute to straight stats. We're strictly speaking offense, right? (I think he's better on defense than advertised).

But you don't think the eras kind of skew the results a bit? How would IT fare in that era? And AI in this one? It's easier for perimeter players nowadays. IT busted his ass and used current rules to his advantage and led his team to the best record in the East.

I fell like I'm discrediting IT and I don't want to. He's had a great season.

Im talking overall season not just offense. I also agree that you cant compare stats straight up. I just think people are drastically over estimating the difference. If its so much easier for guards to score, why havent we seen guards put up gaudy scoring seasons. Curry last year put up one of the most efficient and electrifying offensive seasons we have seen in a long time and he still averaged just 30 ppg.

Probably because scoring point guards aren't that common now. I think you and I mostly agree here. I don't think the comparison is asinine like others are implying here, a few seasons of more peak scoring like this from IT and it's absolutely a warranted comparison and then some. This whole 45ppg though is bananas.

[OkcSinceSGA]

So this one poster claims AI would average 45 ppg today, is 2nd or 3rd best SG all time and was even a positive on defense because some bias writer gave him a DPOY vote....and people are still responding to his posts? AI was fun to watch, did some amazing things for a guy his size but the nostalgia factor is making some of his fans completely irrational when debating anything that involves him.

Yep. This is insanity.

[permaximum]

So this one poster claims AI would average 45 ppg today, is 2nd or 3rd best SG all time and was even a positive on defense because some bias writer gave him a DPOY vote....and people are still responding to his posts? AI was fun to watch, did some amazing things for a guy his size but the nostalgia factor is making some of his fans completely irrational when debating anything that involves him.

No. Because voter"S" gave him DPOY and Defensive-Team Vote"S" in his prime year"S". They are "plural" you know. I also said he was positive in RAPM unlike Kobe because our enthusiastic guy brought the BPM discussion.

Again I proclaim Iverson would average 45 on somewhere around 48% FG 37% 3P 84% FT in 44 minutes per game.

I bet I'm older than you. I bet I watched more NBA games than you. I bet I played more basketball games than you. I bet you don't even know I'm an analytics person that's betting constantly. I create my own metrics and calculate ridge regression for APM variants myself.

Realgm posters hate Iverson and overrate individual TS% and Wade beyond reason. It's known everywhere. You just need to get out of here and look around. There's a reason former players, coaches, GMs pick Iverson over Wade and other SGs except Jordan and Kobe when making all-time lists. Don't make me link those videos and comments.

[OkcSinceSGA]

So this one poster claims AI would average 45 ppg today, is 2nd or 3rd best SG all time and was even a positive on defense because some bias writer gave him a DPOY vote....and people are still responding to his posts? AI was fun to watch, did some amazing things for a guy his size but the nostalgia factor is making some of his fans completely irrational when debating anything that involves him.

No. Because voter"S" gave him DPOY and Defensive-Team Vote"S" in his prime year"S". They are "plural" you know. I also said he was positive in RAPM unlike Kobe because our enthusiastic guy brought the BPM discussion.

Again I proclaim Iverson would average 45 on somewhere around 48% FG 37% 3P 84% FT in 44 minutes per game.

I bet I'm older than you. I bet I watched more NBA games than you. I bet I played more basketball games than you. I bet you don't even know I'm an analytics person that's betting constantly. I create my own metrics and calculate ridge regression for APM variants myself.

Realgm posters hate Iverson and overrate individual TS% and Wade beyond reason. It's known everywhere. You just need to get out of here and look around. There's a reason former players, coaches, GMs pick Iverson over Wade and other SGs except Jordan and Kobe when making all-time lists. Don't make me link those videos and comments.

LOL. Reaffirms 45 ppg claim, says Iverson>Wade. Can I have some of what you're smoking man? Also that's an appeal to authority fallacy. Just because GM's supposedly said they'd take Iverson over Wade doesn't mean you have a strong argument. I'd take 06-13 Wade over prime Iverson 10/10 times and that's not based on personal like or opinion, but rather objective data.

[reapaman]

You guys are acting like nerds demanding advanced statistics. If you really understand the game you'd recognize the difference in space each guy had to work with.

Well that's the problem. Both sides are saying the other doesn't understand the game, but the advance stats and analytics support one side while the other has absolutely nothing to support them even though they are the most aggressive with their opinion.

Its like people would swear that they call more fouls today until I show them the basic stats that show fouls have gone down significantly league wide and for perimeter players than in any point in league history. Your understanding of the game is plain wrong.

I'm not saying anything about that. Didn't mention or who I think is better. Did both guys have the same amount of space on the floor to work with? It's a yes or no question. That's all I'm asking.

Space to do what? That my problem, there is no context to the space being referred to. No account for how rotating/motion defenses have accounted for the increase in outside shooting that could open the floor up. Just no critical thinking at all.

People make it sound like once IT gets pass his man, he for the most part just has a free reign to the basket with no defender there to possibly stop him which I can flat out deny thats happening. Even with Washington's lazy defense for a big part of game 2 for example, there was always at least two guys there in the paint to help out on IT when IT got to the paint.

[permaximum]

So this one poster claims AI would average 45 ppg today, is 2nd or 3rd best SG all time and was even a positive on defense because some bias writer gave him a DPOY vote....and people are still responding to his posts? AI was fun to watch, did some amazing things for a guy his size but the nostalgia factor is making some of his fans completely irrational when debating anything that involves him.

No. Because voter"S" gave him DPOY and Defensive-Team Vote"S" in his prime year"S". They are "plural" you know. I also said he was positive in RAPM unlike Kobe because our enthusiastic guy brought the BPM discussion.

Again I proclaim Iverson would average 45 on somewhere around 48% FG 37% 3P 84% FT in 44 minutes per game.

I bet I'm older than you. I bet I watched more NBA games than you. I bet I played more basketball games than you. I bet you don't even know I'm an analytics person that's betting constantly. I create my own metrics and calculate ridge regression for APM variants myself.

Realgm posters hate Iverson and overrate individual TS% and Wade beyond reason. It's known everywhere. You just need to get out of here and look around. There's a reason former players, coaches, GMs pick Iverson over Wade and other SGs except Jordan and Kobe when making all-time lists. Don't make me link those videos and comments.

LOL. Reaffirms 45 ppg claim, says Iverson>Wade. Can I have some of what you're smoking man?

Watch on YouTube

viewtopic.php?t=1348412

Don't embarrass yourself more.

[OkcSinceSGA]

No. Because voter"S" gave him DPOY and Defensive-Team Vote"S" in his prime year"S". They are "plural" you know. I also said he was positive in RAPM unlike Kobe because our enthusiastic guy brought the BPM discussion.

Again I proclaim Iverson would average 45 on somewhere around 48% FG 37% 3P 84% FT in 44 minutes per game.

I bet I'm older than you. I bet I watched more NBA games than you. I bet I played more basketball games than you. I bet you don't even know I'm an analytics person that's betting constantly. I create my own metrics and calculate ridge regression for APM variants myself.

Realgm posters hate Iverson and overrate individual TS% and Wade beyond reason. It's known everywhere. You just need to get out of here and look around. There's a reason former players, coaches, GMs pick Iverson over Wade and other SGs except Jordan and Kobe when making all-time lists. Don't make me link those videos and comments.

LOL. Reaffirms 45 ppg claim, says Iverson>Wade. Can I have some of what you're smoking man?

Watch on YouTube

viewtopic.php?t=1348412

Don't embarrass yourself more.

You have 39 posts and are using other people's OPINIONS to make your argument. You're the one embarrassing yourself today my friend.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Dwyane Wade has the 2nd best offensive RAPM from 2001-2014 to Lebron. Higher than Shaq, Kobe, Nash, Dirk etc. 6th overall RAPM. This awesome gentleman was kind enough to spreadsheet it.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/rapm-above-avg

When we combine all of the best metrics Wade completely annihilates Iverson.

[permaximum]

LOL. Reaffirms 45 ppg claim, says Iverson>Wade. Can I have some of what you're smoking man?

Watch on YouTube

viewtopic.php?t=1348412

Don't embarrass yourself more.

You have 39 posts and are using other people's OPINIONS to make your argument. You're the one embarrassing yourself today my friend.

Because that's your level. You don't care about MVPs or first-team ALL-NBA's or any other awards. You don't care about any simple stats but TS% and you're not knowladgeble enough to discuss the topic on analytics level since I bet you don't even know what lambda for a penalized regression means and why is it used to calculate APM variants at the regression stage or how do these advanced metrics are created using different statistical models.

So I'm using other player, coach and GM opinions to prove if you think that top athletes that come from basketball are the ones who smoke, it's actually you that's smoking and bringing post counts into discussion like a teenager. I always made fun of what realgm forum posters think but I didn't think it was this bad until I found the thread by chance and decided to join the discussion for the lols.

This is the stupidest thread ever and you are the one who created it. Live with that.

[permaximum]

Dwyane Wade has the 2nd best offensive RAPM from 2001-2014 to Lebron. Higher than Shaq, Kobe, Nash, Dirk etc. 6th overall RAPM. This awesome gentleman was kind enough to spreadsheet it.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/rapm-above-avg

When we combine all of the best metrics Wade completely annihilates Iverson.

Those metrics are even worse than a stat called "Minutes Per Game" at evaluating player performances. You can find my research on this topic on the internet

[OkcSinceSGA]

Dwyane Wade has the 2nd best offensive RAPM from 2001-2014 to Lebron. Higher than Shaq, Kobe, Nash, Dirk etc. 6th overall RAPM. This awesome gentleman was kind enough to spreadsheet it.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/rapm-above-avg

When we combine all of the best metrics Wade completely annihilates Iverson.

Those metrics are even worse than a stat called "Minutes Per Game" at evaluating player performances. You can find my research on this topic on the internet

Tell me which stats are good and I'll tell you how badly Wade beats Iverson in them. There is literally not one metric I can think of that Iverson outperforms Wade. If you won't look to objective data, you have shaky ground to stand on to begin with. Tell me WHY or HOW in terms of data and or evidence Iverson is the 3rd best SG ever or would average 45 ppg when far superior scorers like Curry, Lebron, Durant, Harden can't even crack 30 barely.

[permaximum]

Dwyane Wade has the 2nd best offensive RAPM from 2001-2014 to Lebron. Higher than Shaq, Kobe, Nash, Dirk etc. 6th overall RAPM. This awesome gentleman was kind enough to spreadsheet it.

https://sites.google.com/site/rapmstats/rapm-above-avg

When we combine all of the best metrics Wade completely annihilates Iverson.

Those metrics are even worse than a stat called "Minutes Per Game" at evaluating player performances. You can find my research on this topic on the internet

Tell me which stats are good and I'll tell you how badly Wade beats Iverson in them. There is literally not one metric I can think of that Iverson outperforms Wade. If you won't look to objective data, you have shaky ground to stand on to begin with. Tell me WHY or HOW in terms of data and or evidence Iverson is the 3rd best SG ever or would average 45 ppg when far superior scorers like Curry, Lebron, Durant, Harden can't even crack 30 barely.

Achivements are the best indicators of player performances if you haven't watched each one of those players' games that you want to compare. Iverson's achivements are better than Wade. Wade has championships thanks to Shaq and LeBron-Bosh duo but at almost everything else Iverson's better.

Iverson would score 45 because Iverson shoots more per possesion, Iverson gets to the line more per possession and Iverson plays ~10 minutes more per game than those players. That's why.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Those metrics are even worse than a stat called "Minutes Per Game" at evaluating player performances. You can find my research on this topic on the internet

Tell me which stats are good and I'll tell you how badly Wade beats Iverson in them. There is literally not one metric I can think of that Iverson outperforms Wade. If you won't look to objective data, you have shaky ground to stand on to begin with. Tell me WHY or HOW in terms of data and or evidence Iverson is the 3rd best SG ever or would average 45 ppg when far superior scorers like Curry, Lebron, Durant, Harden can't even crack 30 barely.

Achivements are the best indicators of player performances if you haven't watched each one of those players' games that you want to compare. Iverson's achivements are better than Wade. Wade has championships thanks to Shaq and LeBron-Bosh duo but at almost everything else Iverson's better.

Iverson would score 45 because Iverson shoots more per possesion, Iverson gets to the line more per possession and Iverson plays ~10 minutes more per game than those players. That's why.

Hahahahahaha. Oh man. This is awesome.

[Ontario]

AI is the superior player, his lanes were packed with genuine Bigs!, a species all but extinct today and AI took no crap from any of them. IT wouldn't be half as effective if you tried to plug him into AI's shoes.