2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Bob8]

stop with this MVP nonsense. 1 person mentioned that and he wasn’t meaning seriously.

[Duke4life831]

Doncic is a beast and should be ROY, but posts like these are so weird. There are 20-30 players having better years than Luka (which should be expected), but c'mon.

I love Luka's style and swagger, but he hasn't been much better than an average starter overall. 18/7/4 is nice but barely even gets him into the all-star conversation and, more importantly, he's been weak on D and not very efficient on offense--shooting efficiency is average and he's turning the ball over a ton for someone who takes up medium volume.

MVP is supposed to go to the best and most dominant player overall, and Doncic is probably the 50-60th best and most dominant player. (He also doesn't deserve all the credit for the Mavs hot start.)

How many players are 18/7/4/1 right now this season?

Spoiler:

7. 9 without the steals.

His turnovers are 2.3/g last 5 games, and 2.8/g last 10 games. Assists are climbing towards 5.0.

Mavs had anything but a hot start of the season.

His defense is actually solid.

He's not MVP (of the NBA), that is true, but saying he's just an average starter is a bad take.

Is being an average starter a bad thing though? The dude is a 19 year old rookie and is already an average starter, thats pretty damn impressive. Things like RPM/BPM/WS/VORP all show him being about an average starter, his On/Off is -7 but that is a noisy stat. The point Im making is I dont really see a stat that shows him being more than an average starter. And again I want to clarify, Im not saying this as an insult. If you come in at 19 years old and step in and be an average NBA starter, that is damn impressive.

[Bob8]

I love Luka's style and swagger, but he hasn't been much better than an average starter overall. 18/7/4 is nice but barely even gets him into the all-star conversation and, more importantly, he's been weak on D and not very efficient on offense--shooting efficiency is average and he's turning the ball over a ton for someone who takes up medium volume.

MVP is supposed to go to the best and most dominant player overall, and Doncic is probably the 50-60th best and most dominant player. (He also doesn't deserve all the credit for the Mavs hot start.)

How many players are 18/7/4/1 right now this season?

Spoiler:

7. 9 without the steals.

His turnovers are 2.3/g last 5 games, and 2.8/g last 10 games. Assists are climbing towards 5.0.

Mavs had anything but a hot start of the season.

His defense is actually solid.

He's not MVP (of the NBA), that is true, but saying he's just an average starter is a bad take.

Is being an average starter a bad thing though? The dude is a 19 year old rookie and is already an average starter, thats pretty damn impressive. Things like RPM/BPM/WS/VORP all show him being about an average starter, his On/Off is -7 but that is a noisy stat. The point Im making is I dont really see a stat that shows him being more than an average starter. And again I wont to clarify, Im not saying this as an insult. If you come in at 19 years old and step in and be an average NBA starter, that is damn impressive.

What means average starter anyway? Player starts in his team and he for sure isn’t just average starter there. He’s the best player of Dallas. And Dallas is 14-11 at the moment.

[Duke4life831]

How many players are 18/7/4/1 right now this season?

Spoiler:

7. 9 without the steals.

His turnovers are 2.3/g last 5 games, and 2.8/g last 10 games. Assists are climbing towards 5.0.

Mavs had anything but a hot start of the season.

His defense is actually solid.

He's not MVP (of the NBA), that is true, but saying he's just an average starter is a bad take.

Is being an average starter a bad thing though? The dude is a 19 year old rookie and is already an average starter, thats pretty damn impressive. Things like RPM/BPM/WS/VORP all show him being about an average starter, his On/Off is -7 but that is a noisy stat. The point Im making is I dont really see a stat that shows him being more than an average starter. And again I wont to clarify, Im not saying this as an insult. If you come in at 19 years old and step in and be an average NBA starter, that is damn impressive.

What means average starter anyway? Player starts in his team and he for sure isn’t just average starter there. He’s the best player of Dallas. And Dallas is 14-11 at the moment.

Im saying his impact is probably around 12-15th best for his position. At the SF position, these guys are having better seasons than him

PG
LeBron
KD
Kawhi
Covington
Ingles
Middleton
Tatum
Harris
Butler

Thats 10 guys off the top of my head that are having a better season. So he's not in the the top 10 of 30 starting SFs. I think he's an average to above average starter. He's 17th in RPM for SFs (guys that played at least 25mpg), I dont take RPM as gospel and a lot of that has to do with role being played. For example I dont think Otto Porter or Joe Harris are better than Doncic even though RPM has them over him. As Im thinking about it, I probably have him 12th for SFs. Which is damn impressive for a 19 year old rookie.

And to clarify what I mean when I say average starter. Average starter for his position. So where does he rank out of the 30-35 SFs that have gotten starting minutes. Again I got him about 12th out of 30 or so. So an above average starter.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

If Doncic leads DAL to a completely unthought of playoff berth, is he MVP? Mad Hawksfan

Doncic is a beast and should be ROY, but posts like these are so weird. There are 20-30 players having better years than Luka (which should be expected), but c'mon.

I love Luka's style and swagger, but he hasn't been much better than an average starter overall. 18/7/4 is nice but barely even gets him into the all-star conversation and, more importantly, he's been weak on D and not very efficient on offense--shooting efficiency is average and he's turning the ball over a ton for someone who takes up medium volume.

MVP is supposed to go to the best and most dominant player overall, and Doncic is probably the 50-60th best and most dominant player. (He also doesn't deserve all the credit for the Mavs hot start.)

Not really. He has .6 DBPM and 55.2 TS%.

[Bob8]

Is being an average starter a bad thing though? The dude is a 19 year old rookie and is already an average starter, thats pretty damn impressive. Things like RPM/BPM/WS/VORP all show him being about an average starter, his On/Off is -7 but that is a noisy stat. The point Im making is I dont really see a stat that shows him being more than an average starter. And again I wont to clarify, Im not saying this as an insult. If you come in at 19 years old and step in and be an average NBA starter, that is damn impressive.

What means average starter anyway? Player starts in his team and he for sure isn’t just average starter there. He’s the best player of Dallas. And Dallas is 14-11 at the moment.

Im saying his impact is probably around 12-15th best for his position. At the SF position, these guys are having better seasons than him

PG
LeBron
KD
Kawhi
Covington
Ingles
Middleton
Tatum
Harris
Butler

Thats 10 guys off the top of my head that are having a better season. So he's not in the the top 10 of 30 starting SFs. I think he's an average to above average starter. He's 17th in RPM for SFs (guys that played at least 25mpg), I dont take RPM as gospel and a lot of that has to do with role being played. For example I dont think Otto Porter or Joe Harris are better than Doncic even though RPM has them over him. As Im thinking about it, I probably have him 12th for SFs. Which is damn impressive for a 19 year old rookie.

And to clarify what I mean when I say average starter. Average starter for his position. So where does he rank out of the 30-35 SFs that have gotten starting minutes. Again I got him about 12th out of 30 or so. So an above average starter.

1. How Ingles can have beter season than him? 12.2/3.9/4.5 vs. 17.8/6.7/4.3. Dallas being better than Utah. The same goes with Covington who has 12.6/5.6/1.1. Worse than Luka in everything.

17.8/6.7/4.3 is for sure far from average.

2. Is Luka really Sf? He’s defending Pf and is playing many times as Pg. He’s hybrid between 1-4. Again nothing average in that.

3. How can be the best player of a winning team average starter? Imho average staters are 3-4 opinions in their teams.

[Duke4life831]

What means average starter anyway? Player starts in his team and he for sure isn’t just average starter there. He’s the best player of Dallas. And Dallas is 14-11 at the moment.

Im saying his impact is probably around 12-15th best for his position. At the SF position, these guys are having better seasons than him

PG
LeBron
KD
Kawhi
Covington
Ingles
Middleton
Tatum
Harris
Butler

Thats 10 guys off the top of my head that are having a better season. So he's not in the the top 10 of 30 starting SFs. I think he's an average to above average starter. He's 17th in RPM for SFs (guys that played at least 25mpg), I dont take RPM as gospel and a lot of that has to do with role being played. For example I dont think Otto Porter or Joe Harris are better than Doncic even though RPM has them over him. As Im thinking about it, I probably have him 12th for SFs. Which is damn impressive for a 19 year old rookie.

And to clarify what I mean when I say average starter. Average starter for his position. So where does he rank out of the 30-35 SFs that have gotten starting minutes. Again I got him about 12th out of 30 or so. So an above average starter.

1. How Ingles can have beter season than him? 12.2/3.9/4.5 vs. 17.8/6.7/4.3. Dallas being better than Utah. The same goes with Covington who has 12.6/5.6/1.1. Worse than Luka in everything.

17.8/6.7/4.3 is for sure far from average.

2. Is Luka really Sf? He’s defending Pf and is playing many times as Pg. He’s hybrid between 1-4. Again nothing average in that.

3. How can be the best player of a winning team average starter? Imho average staters are 3-4 opinions in their teams.

There is 2 sides to the ball and much better ways to measure impact than raw pts/rebs/asts. Wherever Robert Covington goes, elite team defense seems to follow him. Covington is putting up 14/6 on 59 TS% while playing elite of elite defense with Minny. Ingles again plays defense at a much higher level than Doncic. Again I think On/off is a noisy stat, but Ingles +14 kind of matches the eyeball test as well. The overall impact Ingles makes on that team is pretty legit.

I get the hybrid talk, but its not as rare as it once was. Ingles averages the same assists than Doncic while being the more versatile defender. Covington is the far more versatile defender, he guards 1-4 defensively at an elite level.

I get your definition of average starter, that is why I clarified what I meant by average starter. Compared to the starters around the league that plays his position, I think he falls high middle of that group. Or in another words, above average. Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

[Texas Chuck]

Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

[Bob8]

Im saying his impact is probably around 12-15th best for his position. At the SF position, these guys are having better seasons than him

PG
LeBron
KD
Kawhi
Covington
Ingles
Middleton
Tatum
Harris
Butler

Thats 10 guys off the top of my head that are having a better season. So he's not in the the top 10 of 30 starting SFs. I think he's an average to above average starter. He's 17th in RPM for SFs (guys that played at least 25mpg), I dont take RPM as gospel and a lot of that has to do with role being played. For example I dont think Otto Porter or Joe Harris are better than Doncic even though RPM has them over him. As Im thinking about it, I probably have him 12th for SFs. Which is damn impressive for a 19 year old rookie.

And to clarify what I mean when I say average starter. Average starter for his position. So where does he rank out of the 30-35 SFs that have gotten starting minutes. Again I got him about 12th out of 30 or so. So an above average starter.

1. How Ingles can have beter season than him? 12.2/3.9/4.5 vs. 17.8/6.7/4.3. Dallas being better than Utah. The same goes with Covington who has 12.6/5.6/1.1. Worse than Luka in everything.

17.8/6.7/4.3 is for sure far from average.

2. Is Luka really Sf? He’s defending Pf and is playing many times as Pg. He’s hybrid between 1-4. Again nothing average in that.

3. How can be the best player of a winning team average starter? Imho average staters are 3-4 opinions in their teams.

There is 2 sides to the ball and much better ways to measure impact than raw pts/rebs/asts. Wherever Robert Covington goes, elite team defense seems to follow him. Covington is putting up 14/6 on 59 TS% while playing elite of elite defense with Minny. Ingles again plays defense at a much higher level than Doncic. Again I think On/off is a noisy stat, but Ingles +14 kind of matches the eyeball test as well. The overall impact Ingles makes on that team is pretty legit.

I get the hybrid talk, but its not as rare as it once was. Ingles averages the same assists than Doncic while being the more versatile defender. Covington is the far more versatile defender, he guards 1-4 defensively at an elite level.

I get your definition of average starter, that is why I clarified what I meant by average starter. Compared to the starters around the league that plays his position, I think he falls high middle of that group. Or in another words, above average. Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

Yes but they are scoring much less and Covington is not creating for anybody. Let’s look at the problem from other side. Would Ingles and Covington be the best players of Dallas, if they played there? Not sure about that. I believe no player, who’s leader of the winning team is an average starter. And it’s one thing to be great defender and important part of your team and something totally different being leader of your team. I guess DeAndre Jordan is average starter too, but he and Luka totally changed how Dallas looks this year, something doesn’t add up, averages starters shouldn’t have influence like that.

[Duke4life831]

Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

This is better said than anyway I coudlve said it. This is exactly what I mean. Ingles and Covington just know the game, theyre vets, they rarely make dumb mistakes and they make those crafty little plays all the time that dont really show up on the box sheet, but help impact games. We are talking about 2 guys that would start on any team in the NBA.

And yup this is not me talking ceiling or trade value or anything like that. Im talking strictly level of impact this year. Doncic has shown great flashes, but his impact isnt on those two guys level yet.

[Bob8]

Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

Something has changed in Dallas this year. Dirk is out, Barnes was out in the start of the season, DSJ has missed some games, but Mavericks has 7 wins wins, 100%, more. I don’t believe Ingles would have brought that much. But I could be wrong.

[Bob8]

Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

This is better said than anyway I coudlve said it. This is exactly what I mean. Ingles and Covington just know the game, theyre vets, they rarely make dumb mistakes and they make those crafty little plays all the time that dont really show up on the box sheet, but help impact games. We are talking about 2 guys that would start on any team in the NBA.

And yup this is not me talking ceiling or trade value or anything like that. Im talking strictly level of impact this year. Doncic has shown great flashes, but his impact isnt on those two guys level yet.

And what’s impact of Ingles in his club? Has Utah really that much worse roster than Dallas? Would trading Luka for Ingles really brought more wins to Dallas this year?

[Texas Chuck]

Now am I saying Covington and Ingles have higher trade value than Doncic? No way in hell. Utah and Minny would do that trade in a heartbeat. But if we are talking level of impact today, yes those 2 make a bigger positive impact on the game than Doncic. But again we are talking high end veteran players vs a 19 year old rookie.

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

Something has changed in Dallas this year. Dirk is out, Barnes was out in the start of the season, DSJ has missed some games, but Mavericks has 7 wins wins, 100%, more. I don’t believe Ingles would have brought that much. But I could be wrong.

Oh Luka and DJ have helped. Wes is playing better. But why is Dallas winning? The main reason is the 2nd unit is just crushing other teams' benches. Barea/Powell/Kleber together is more than plus 20 per 100 possessions. The starters with Wes are -7 per 100. Sub out Wes for DFS and they are plus 5 which is one of the reasons we have seen Rick pull Wes first among the starters recently to get DFS more run with the starters.

But the bench is the primary reason Dallas is winning. Luka is the primary reason the fanbase is re-inspired. I haven't felt this positive since Dirk was singing off-key at the parade....

[Bob8]

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

Something has changed in Dallas this year. Dirk is out, Barnes was out in the start of the season, DSJ has missed some games, but Mavericks has 7 wins wins, 100%, more. I don’t believe Ingles would have brought that much. But I could be wrong.

Oh Luka and DJ have helped. Wes is playing better. But why is Dallas winning? The main reason is the 2nd unit is just crushing other teams' benches. Barea/Powell/Kleber together is more than plus 20 per 100 possessions. The starters with Wes are -7 per 100. Sub out Wes for DFS and they are plus 5 which is one of the reasons we have seen Rick pull Wes first among the starters recently to get DFS more run with the starters.

But the bench is the primary reason Dallas is winning. Luka is the primary reason the fanbase is re-inspired. I haven't felt this positive since Dirk was singing off-key at the parade....

If I remember right, bench was pretty good last year too.

[Duke4life831]

Yep. I often agree with Bob on Luka topics, but I'm 100% with you here. The talent is clearly there, but he's a kid so the impact doesn't yet match the talent. For all those 11 pt bursts to close out the Rockets, there are those 2 offline lobs to DJ and whatever that off the backboard nonsense was. For every wicked stepback 3, there is that needless turnover forcing a pass that isn't there. For every blocking Lebron twice, there is a missed switch or a blow by.

He's a tremendous talent and he's way ahead of any reasonable expectations 1/4 of a season into his career. But quality vets who really know how to play are going to be having more positive impact.

For now.

This is better said than anyway I coudlve said it. This is exactly what I mean. Ingles and Covington just know the game, theyre vets, they rarely make dumb mistakes and they make those crafty little plays all the time that dont really show up on the box sheet, but help impact games. We are talking about 2 guys that would start on any team in the NBA.

And yup this is not me talking ceiling or trade value or anything like that. Im talking strictly level of impact this year. Doncic has shown great flashes, but his impact isnt on those two guys level yet.

And what’s impact of ingles in his club. Has Utah really that much worse roster than Dallas?

I think Utah's roster is better but not playing up to their standard. I dont think its on Ingles that Mitchell is in a bad Soph slump, or Rubio is playing worse, or Crowder and Exum couldnt throw the ball into the ocean if they tried. I dont think that is on Ingles, but that doesnt takeaway from the impact Ingles is having. Again its a noisy stat, but its not a shock Ingles has the best On/Off on his team by almost double.

I think Dallas as a team is playing really good solid basketball. Same goes for Sac. You can look at Fox in a similar way. I can think of 10 PGs that are having a higher impact than Fox this year. Fox has some good raw stats, Sac has a good record, but that doesnt make Fox a top 10 PG yet. He still makes a lot of young mistakes throughout the game.

[Texas Chuck]

And what’s impact of ingles in his club. Has Utah really that much worse roster than Dallas?

It's different. Ingles has elite complementary skills. Which means put him on a good team, and he elevates them. But his limitations means he doesn't do as much for bad teams. Luka on the other hand is a primary option kind of guy. So he can lift bad teams more than Ingles is likely to. But put Luka on a contender right now and he'd not being playing starter's minutes. He'd likely not be closing games. Because those teams have better options than Luka.

Their impact is different because their games and roles are so different. But Ingles is able to have more positive impact overall in his role than Luka is in his right now. If Luka becomes what we all think he will, he will be having far more impact than Ingles. He's just not there yet.

[Texas Chuck]

If I remember right, bench was pretty good last year too.

They were good. The 2nd most-used lineup was Dirk/Barea/Powell/Yogi/Devin and it was plus 20 per 100. But the starters were an almost unfathomable -18 and of course they played more minutes than the bench.

The starters this year still aren't winning their match-ups, but they are managing since that awful start not to dig too big a hole for the bench to carry them through.

[Duke4life831]

And what’s impact of ingles in his club. Has Utah really that much worse roster than Dallas?

It's different. Ingles has elite complementary skills. Which means put him on a good team, and he elevates them. But his limitations means he doesn't do as much for bad teams. Luka on the other hand is a primary option kind of guy. So he can lift bad teams more than Ingles is likely to. But put Luka on a contender right now and he'd not being playing starter's minutes. He'd likely not be closing games. Because those teams have better options than Luka.

Their impact is different because their games and roles are so different. But Ingles is able to have more positive impact overall in his role than Luka is in his right now. If Luka becomes what we all think he will, he will be having far more impact than Ingles. He's just not there yet.

Yup. If you ask Covington to be the #1 guy on a team its not going to be pretty. But you ask him to be the ultimate 3&D wing, the dude has a massive impact on the game. What Chuck and I are talking about are the impacts these players are having on their teams this year. Doncic is the better individual talent for sure, give him a year or 2 and he will be making more of an impact than these players as well. But there is a reason why vets like Covington and Ingles are so valued in the league, its because of the impact they can have on a team, even if it doesnt show up on raw stats.

[Bob8]

If I remember right, bench was pretty good last year too.

They were good. The 2nd most-used lineup was Dirk/Barea/Powell/Yogi/Devin and it was plus 20 per 100. But the starters were an almost unfathomable -18 and of course they played more minutes than the bench.

The starters this year still aren't winning their match-ups, but they are managing since that awful start not to dig too big a hole for the bench to carry them through.

My point is that bench plays more or less the same and Mavs are 7 wins up. Meaning Luka and Jordan made the difference, big difference. On the other hand we have Utah, who is much worse than last year, meaning great Ingles cannot help much. I know that basketball is not math, but forgetting all numerical stats and believe only in RPM is somewhat funny too. Who in starting 5 would made 18 points more, if there was no Luka? Who would made clutch shots in which Luka was first before last game? Where in Rpm you can see this clutch shots?

[Texas Chuck]

And what’s impact of ingles in his club. Has Utah really that much worse roster than Dallas?

It's different. Ingles has elite complementary skills. Which means put him on a good team, and he elevates them. But his limitations means he doesn't do as much for bad teams. Luka on the other hand is a primary option kind of guy. So he can lift bad teams more than Ingles is likely to. But put Luka on a contender right now and he'd not being playing starter's minutes. He'd likely not be closing games. Because those teams have better options than Luka.

Their impact is different because their games and roles are so different. But Ingles is able to have more positive impact overall in his role than Luka is in his right now. If Luka becomes what we all think he will, he will be having far more impact than Ingles. He's just not there yet.

Yup. If you ask Covington to be the #1 guy on a team its not going to be pretty. But you ask him to be the ultimate 3&D wing, the dude has a massive impact on the game. What Chuck and I are talking about are the impacts these players are having on their teams this year. Doncic is the better individual talent for sure, give him a year or 2 and he will be making more of an impact than these players as well. But there is a reason why vets like Covington and Ingles are so valued in the league, its because of the impact they can have on a team, even if it doesnt show up on raw stats.

What we need to do is to figure out how to convince one of those teams to let their guy come play with Luka. Since that isn't likely to happen, Mavs fans should be really encouraged by Finney-Smith. His shooting looks really good. I don't know if he's really a 40% 3-pt shooter long-term but his form looks like he's going to shoot it well enough and his defense continues to improve as well. He's not Covington or Ingles, but he's definitely a guy Dallas should make a priority this summer.