MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

RB34 · Post #461 » by **RB34** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:41 am

LikeABosh wrote:
RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Are they playing 2v2 out there?

Sometimes

JordansBulls · Post #462 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:12 am

Benedict_Boozer wrote:Giannis better not lose that game against Lebron in LA. The media is full of recency bias and the Lakers doing well with AD out helps the case for Lebron.

It reminds me of Kobe the year he won it, CP3 had a great case but the media wanted to give Kobe the lifetime achievement treatment and he won that last head to head game. Lebron is basically in that same situation.

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Totally different. Kobe hadn't won one before. Lebron has 4.

trending · Post #463 » by **trending** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:19 pm

when all's said and done lowry or siakam will be there.

JN61 · Post #464 » by **JN61** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:02 pm

Harden has taken himself out of the race and it's currently just 1 player race for MVP.

Only way for Harden to enter the race again is to average closer 40 points for the rest of the season with league best record.

While Westbrook has taken a lot of his usage as of late, he has been very good in those games. However Harden has been bad in January compared to 2019.

DutchManDanFan · Post #465 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:25 pm

JN61 wrote:Harden has taken himself out of the race and it's currently just 1 player race for MVP.

Only way for Harden to enter the race again is to average closer 40 points for the rest of the season with league best record.

While Westbrook has taken a lot of his usage as of late, he has been very good in those games. However Harden has been bad in January compared to 2019.

LeBron is in the race as long as the Lakers record stay close to the Bucks.
Rockets must get in 2nd place with a small gap to LAL if Harden wants to win it. If he can get 40 ppg and Giannis and LeBron take it easy, he's in with a chance as well. Very unlikely though.

JN61 · Post #466 » by **JN61** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:27 pm

RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

Post #467 » by **The Duke** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:06 pm

Giannis ... there is no reasonable case for anyone else in the regular season.

Raps in 4 · Post #468 » by **Raps in 4** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:04 pm

JN61 wrote:
RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

One has a top-10 player for a running mate. The other one has Khris **** Middleton. Top-end talent is much more important in the NBA than depth. Giannis is carrying a much bigger load than Lebron this year.

mademan · Post #469 » by **mademan** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:37 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
JN61 wrote:
RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

One has a top-10 player for a running mate. The other one has Khris **** Middleton. Top-end talent is much more important in the NBA than depth. Giannis is carrying a much bigger load than Lebron this year.

uhh, lets not sell Giannis's supporting cast short here just cause they dont have name recognition. It's the same thing people did/do with the Raps last year with Kawhi. He has a terrific team; these guys play at a +9.4 per 100 possessions with him off the court. Thats absolutely ridiculous.

And i completely disagree that Giannis is carrying a bigger load. Producing more, playing better...etc, im cool with. Carrying a bigger load means that the Lakers supporting cast is better which it isnt, at least in the RS, where top end talent is not as important as depth.

And i say that while having Giannis as the MVP. People just need to stop selling his teammates short just because they dont have flashy names. They go 9-10 deep with quality players and have a top tier coach able to maximize them.

Post #470 » by **ken6199** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:04 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
JN61 wrote:
RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

One has a top-10 player for a running mate. The other one has Khris **** Middleton. Top-end talent is much more important in the NBA than depth. Giannis is carrying a much bigger load than Lebron this year.

Khris **** Middleton? Not sure how much attention you are paying to Middleton's play. Most of the Bucks fans I see were complaining about his contract in the summer but now saying he is performing up to / over his contract value. He is shooting 41.5% from 3. He is posting career high across the board on PER, WS/48, TRB, ASR, USG. He is shooting career high eFG and TS. Middleton is absolutely killing it right now.

Bucks bench is leading the league in NetRtg. Brook is blocking shots like there is no tomorrow leading the league in Block Pct. George Hill is shooting 3s at 53% with 3 attempts per game with a 135 ORtg both of which are almost unheard of. DiVincenzo, Brook, Middleton, Bledsoe are 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th in the league on total +/- behind Giannis and Lebron.

Nobody is saying any of the Bucks player is better than AD but you seem to underestimate the value of a good, fitting supporting cast. At least in the regular season, depth is very important. When Giannis sits the Bucks team have a NetRtg of +8.3 (it was +3.1 last year when he sat, -5.9 the year before under Kidd). Matter of fact every single Bucks player have a + NetRtg when they sit. Guess who is the only negative one on the Lakers when he sits?

What I am saying is, carrying a bigger load doesn't mean you are more MVP worthy. Someone can average 50/15/15 but if his team is 3-79 he ain't going to win the award over a guy who has his team on a 70W pace. Giannis no doubt is comfortably leading this race right now, he is playing even better than last year (which he won comfortably too), but in terms of load carrying, it's pretty clear that LeBron is carrying a bigger load in terms of both intensity (less quality supporting cast) and quantity (total minutes).

jimmybones · Post #471 » by **jimmybones** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:14 pm

Curious if some of you have watched a single Bucks game this season. Bucks cast around Giannis is very good, all fit together perfectly and fit a specific system. The Bucks record is what it is obviously because they have arguably the best player on the planet but an almost slept on aspect is their team defense. Elite rim protection, scheme and rotations. Bucks are not a one man show, the defense is ELITE.

Edrees · Post #472 » by **Edrees** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:39 pm

JN61 wrote:
RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

Wait what? So you think Caruso + Kuzma + Dwight + McGee + Danny Green + Rondo + KCP is the same as Middleton + Bledsoe + Mathews + Lopez + Ilyasova?

Clearly Lebron has a better supporting cast with AD but if you remove AD from the equation Bucks supporting roster is clearly much more superior.

Heading into the season, this entire board was saying how if either 1 of AD or Lebron was injured the Lakers would be a terrible team. Crazy how the narrative changes on them.

JN61 · Post #473 » by **JN61** » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:55 pm

Edrees wrote:
JN61 wrote:
RB34 wrote:LeBron getting a lot of props for winning without AD. Giannis winning the whole season without an AD.

Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

Wait what? So you think Caruso + Kuzma + Dwight + McGee + Danny Green + Rondo + KCP is the same as Middleton + Bledsoe + Mathews + Lopez + Ilyasova?

Clearly Lebron has a better supporting cast with AD but if you remove AD from the equation Bucks supporting roster is clearly much more superior.

Heading into the season, this entire board was saying how if either 1 of AD or Lebron was injured the Lakers would be a terrible team. Crazy how the narrative changes on them.

I don't compare. I just think both supporting casts are one of the best in the league.

DutchManDanFan · Post #474 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:37 am

Ouch 1-17 from 3...
Giannis had a bad game as well, but he still got away with 28-14-10-1-1 (and 8 to’s)...

Magic Giannison · Post #475 » by **Magic Giannison** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:56 am

I dont see how Giannis loses the MVP at this point.

Infinite Llamas · Post #476 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:08 am

Magic Giannison wrote:I dont see how Giannis loses the MVP at this point.

I do. Still a ton of games left to play

Magic Giannison · Post #477 » by **Magic Giannison** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:09 am

Infinite Llamas wrote:
Magic Giannison wrote:I dont see how Giannis loses the MVP at this point.

I do. Still a ton of games left to play

Theoretically sure but considering how he plays,teams performs and his minutes while having HUGE impact unless some drastic change happens its his

Infinite Llamas · Post #478 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:14 am

Magic Giannison wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:
Magic Giannison wrote:I dont see how Giannis loses the MVP at this point.

I do. Still a ton of games left to play

Theoretically sure but considering how he plays,teams performs and his minutes while having HUGE impact unless some drastic change happens its his

I agree but the media is always thirsting for a new contender to rise to make this a race.

BloodNinja · Post #479 » by **BloodNinja** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:43 am

Hardens chances have torpedoed now.

mademan · Post #480 » by **mademan** » Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:01 am

JN61 wrote:
Edrees wrote:
JN61 wrote:Eh, both players have extremely good supporting cast with or without Davis.

Wait what? So you think Caruso + Kuzma + Dwight + McGee + Danny Green + Rondo + KCP is the same as Middleton + Bledsoe + Mathews + Lopez + Ilyasova?

Clearly Lebron has a better supporting cast with AD but if you remove AD from the equation Bucks supporting roster is clearly much more superior.

Heading into the season, this entire board was saying how if either 1 of AD or Lebron was injured the Lakers would be a terrible team. Crazy how the narrative changes on them.

I don't compare. I just think both supporting casts are one of the best in the league.

Call it supporting cast or coaching, doesnt really matter. Lakers are alright with Lebron on the bench while the Bucks are gang busters with Giannis on the bench. Bucks completely destroy teams while Giannis rests like the 2018 Raps bench did or the 2014 Spurs bench did. You can say AD will provide more during the playoffs, but as is, Giannis has the much better RS supporting cast.

For the RS, at least, having 10 quality guys is much better than having a 2nd superstar and no one else who can dribble a basketball decently.

Who is your pick for the 2019-20 MVP?