Who's the G.O.A.T. ?

[Lukeem]

How is that moving the goalpost? One guy turned a losing organization into a dynasty the other won 1 title in 11 years with the franchise that drafted him. Also won when they came back to that franchise when they had 2 other stars and had to get a guy suspended for that to happen when they were favorite at the beginning of the season to win it all.

You’re not measuring how good the player was you’re measuring how good the franchise was at building around the player.
If that’s the measure of greatness than who cares about Mj or lebron they are both pathetic compared to bill Russell and the dynasty that was built around him

I am measuring how good they are. An all time great isn’t leaving the franchise that drafted them without leading them to a title and they sure as hell win more than 1 title in 11 for that franchise.
Bill Walton won as many in shorter time. So did Isiah and Hakeem and they aren’t even considered top 5-7 all time.

So did patrick McCaw, Kyle kuzma, Fred van vleet, pascal siakam, kyrie Irving... your measurement has nothing to do with their playing ability

You’re measuring their loyalty, lack of freedom, good fortune of being drafted into a good situation or even just complacency more than their ability to play basketball.

It’s a meaningless metric that is convienent for you to compare lebron and Jordan in a light that favours who you want to favour

[VanWest82]

MJ is the goat because he's the only player ever who was the best player in the league every year he played.

[JordansBulls]

You’re not measuring how good the player was you’re measuring how good the franchise was at building around the player.
If that’s the measure of greatness than who cares about Mj or lebron they are both pathetic compared to bill Russell and the dynasty that was built around him

I am measuring how good they are. An all time great isn’t leaving the franchise that drafted them without leading them to a title and they sure as hell win more than 1 title in 11 for that franchise.
Bill Walton won as many in shorter time. So did Isiah and Hakeem and they aren’t even considered top 5-7 all time.

So did patrick McCaw, Kyle kuzma, Fred van vleet, pascal siakam, kyrie Irving... your measurement has nothing to do with their playing ability

You’re measuring their loyalty, lack of freedom, good fortune of being drafted into a good situation or even just complacency more than their ability to play basketball.

It’s a meaningless metric that is convienent for you to compare lebron and Jordan in a light that favours who you want to favour

I am talking all time great players who were the clear top dog on the team, don’t pull crap like this talking about the 2nd options or role players.

[Lukeem]

MJ is the goat because he's the only player ever who was the best player in the league every year he played.

He clearly wasn’t

[Lukeem]

I am measuring how good they are. An all time great isn’t leaving the franchise that drafted them without leading them to a title and they sure as hell win more than 1 title in 11 for that franchise.
Bill Walton won as many in shorter time. So did Isiah and Hakeem and they aren’t even considered top 5-7 all time.

So did patrick McCaw, Kyle kuzma, Fred van vleet, pascal siakam, kyrie Irving... your measurement has nothing to do with their playing ability

You’re measuring their loyalty, lack of freedom, good fortune of being drafted into a good situation or even just complacency more than their ability to play basketball.

It’s a meaningless metric that is convienent for you to compare lebron and Jordan in a light that favours who you want to favour

I am talking all time great players who were the clear top dog on the team, don’t pull crap like this talking about the 2nd options or role players.

You’re talking nonsense that again has nothing to do with how good they are at basketball. Just an over developed prioritization on an employee being blindly loyal to his employer even to their own detriment.

I was being a bit facetious but using your logic to a T Jordan never surpassed Russell so who gives a ****

[VanWest82]

MJ is the goat because he's the only player ever who was the best player in the league every year he played.

He clearly wasn’t

I should've said every year with the Bulls. Some years it was close but there's a good case every year. Clearly he wasn't when he came back as 39 yr old with Wizards.

[lvckv]

Robin Lopez's agent

[Michael Lucky]

MJ, you are talking about a person that would have likely won 8 straight titles had he not retired the first time.

[Lukeem]

MJ is the goat because he's the only player ever who was the best player in the league every year he played.

He clearly wasn’t

I should've said every year with the Bulls. Some years it was close but there's a good case every year. Clearly he wasn't when he came back as 39 yr old with Wizards.

You should’ve. But even if you did it’s still just an opinion I and most sensible people would disagree with.

Even the if it was a fact it logically wouldn’t matter for comparing players from different generations. Unless your main recipe for goat is who dominated their competition the most. In which case wilt is a better candidate

[JordansBulls]

So did patrick McCaw, Kyle kuzma, Fred van vleet, pascal siakam, kyrie Irving... your measurement has nothing to do with their playing ability

You’re measuring their loyalty, lack of freedom, good fortune of being drafted into a good situation or even just complacency more than their ability to play basketball.

It’s a meaningless metric that is convienent for you to compare lebron and Jordan in a light that favours who you want to favour

I am talking all time great players who were the clear top dog on the team, don’t pull crap like this talking about the 2nd options or role players.

You’re talking nonsense that again has nothing to do with how good they are at basketball. Just an over developed prioritization on an employee being blindly loyal to his employer even to their own detriment.

I was being a bit facetious but using your logic to a T Jordan never surpassed Russell so who gives a ****

Russell never had to win 4 series in any season to win a title. In fact he won 8 titles with only having to win 2 series The other 3 titles with 3 series. In fact one year with the best record he went 7 against a .500 team and won by 1 poiint in game 7. That team had to play to an entire series beforehand as well.

[InWestWeTrust]

GATT, GOAT's are fairytales

Greatest At Their Time

[VanWest82]

But even if you did it’s still just an opinion I and most sensible people would disagree with.

Try and argue it definitively. It doesn't work in any year because ultimately you're talking about Michael Jordan who came into the league as arguably the best player. Your best case is probably 95 when he came back out of shape but was still the best player in a series with Penny and Shaq.

Even the if it was a fact it logically wouldn’t matter for comparing players from different generations. Unless your main recipe for goat is who dominated their competition the most. In which case wilt is a better candidate

Yes dominance over the era + quality of competition + era challenges/advantages, etc. Wilt didn't win enough. MJ has long since been the consensus for best ever. Only recently has Lebron formed a legitimate challenge.

[dautjazz]

Lebron will probably win his 5th title this season, and that would make it 11 NBA FINALS!! Win or lose, making the finals all the damn time is an incredible feat. I have had Lebron as the GOAT since 2016, but not going to lie the Last Stand doc maybe relive MJ's glory days and get me thinking about, but Lebron's 4th title in his 17th season is just another unheard of accomplishment, being this damn good so late in a career, and going into his 18th season he's going to be considered the best player again come playoffs time. If he gets 6 titles, people will just have to drop the argument for MJ.

[PizzaSteve]

KAJ. dominance, longevity, innovation. Name of the game is points. If LBJ passes him in total pts., he takes the crown. Jordan has best peak, bit didnt sustain.

[70sFan]

MJ is the goat because he's the only player ever who was the best player in the league every year he played.

Jordan wasn't even top 3 in 1985.
He wasn't in 1986 either.

I'd take Magic and Bird over 1987 Jordan as well - he had cute scoring stats on weak team and it didn't translate to meaningful results (he was also weak defender in that year).

He definitely wasn't in 1995.

He wasn't in Wizard years.

That's already 6 of 15 seasons and you can argue that he wasn't the best in the league in years like 1988 or 1993.

[Lukeem]

I am talking all time great players who were the clear top dog on the team, don’t pull crap like this talking about the 2nd options or role players.

You’re talking nonsense that again has nothing to do with how good they are at basketball. Just an over developed prioritization on an employee being blindly loyal to his employer even to their own detriment.

I was being a bit facetious but using your logic to a T Jordan never surpassed Russell so who gives a ****

Russell never had to win 4 series in any season to win a title. In fact he won 8 titles with only having to win 2 series The other 3 titles with 3 series. In fact one year with the best record he went 7 against a .500 team and won by 1 poiint in game 7. That team had to play to an entire series beforehand as well.

So it’s not about how quick you make the team that drafted you the best team in the league, or how many titles you win with them, it’s about getting swept in the first round for years, then for years losing before reaching the finals, then eventually winning exactly the way Jordan’s bulls did. Any variation from the way the bulls did it automatically makes anyone else inferior. Sounds like you’ve really got an open mind and fair assessment, clearly no bias or moving goal posts to assure a fragile ego or foundation of an argument is ever disrupted.

[Lukeem]

But even if you did it’s still just an opinion I and most sensible people would disagree with.

Try and argue it definitively. It doesn't work in any year because ultimately you're talking about Michael Jordan who came into the league as arguably the best player. Your best case is probably 95 when he came back out of shape but was still the best player in a series with Penny and Shaq.

Even the if it was a fact it logically wouldn’t matter for comparing players from different generations. Unless your main recipe for goat is who dominated their competition the most. In which case wilt is a better candidate

Yes dominance over the era + quality of competition + era challenges/advantages, etc. Wilt didn't win enough. MJ has long since been the consensus for best ever. Only recently has Lebron formed a legitimate challenge.

There’s an argument that could be made every single year that he was or wasn’t the best player in the league. You made the dumb statement you prove he was definitely the best player every year he played, and try to look like less of a homer.

“Wilt didn’t win enough” what is enough? Exactly as much or more than Jordan did, in the way Jordan did, against as weak of competition as Jordan did?
Check the poll, read some books by people that watched basketball in the 60s, listen to a variety of people that have studied the game. Jordan was and never will be the consensus GOAT

[_qubik]

Sam presti will still draft the goat with his gazillion picks

[dautjazz]

KAJ. dominance, longevity, innovation. Name of the game is points. If LBJ passes him in total pts., he takes the crown. Jordan has best peak, bit didnt sustain.

I personally feel that Kareem is top 3, and probably one of 4 with a strong GOAT argument (MJ, LBJ, Kareem, and Wilt), but total points while a GREAT accomplishment is not at all what makes him the GOAT. If Malone had not gotten injured in his final year, chances are he sticks around for atleast one more year, he'd probably have become the all-time leader (he finished roughly 1400pts behind Kareem). Despite Malone having come so close to Kareem, he's never come close to being in the argument for GOAT, and currently I'd say people have him around 15th overall. If you look at the top 6, which has Kobe and Dirk too, two guys who most wouldn't even put top 10, that puts 3 guys in the top 6 who aren't top 10 players. Longevity is really big, but peak tends to be valued a lot more in this argument, if not MJ wouldn't even be in the discussion.

[scrabbarista]

MJ is the goat because he's the only player ever who was the best player in the league every year he played.

Jordan wasn't even top 3 in 1985.
He wasn't in 1986 either.

I'd take Magic and Bird over 1987 Jordan as well - he had cute scoring stats on weak team and it didn't translate to meaningful results (he was also weak defender in that year).

He definitely wasn't in 1995.

He wasn't in Wizard years.

That's already 6 of 15 seasons and you can argue that he wasn't the best in the league in years like 1988 or 1993.

When you call the single highest ppg in the last 57 seasons "cute," your bias is showing pretty clearly. I'm not saying you're right or wrong about your other opinions. I'm just saying.