2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[srhcan]

I am not that high on Wagner. I think Suggs will be better than him eventually. Suggs was unfortunate to go to Orlando which is notorious for rookies especially. Suggs would have performed much better and would be in ROY race if he had gone to any team other than Orlando.

[JonFromVA]

tried for a few minutes and couldn't find one strictly for mid range, i'll keep playing with it.

also, it's bball-index's data and charts, i literally just choose the filters and it does the rest.

Appreciate the effort! Many of us have been debating about how Mobley is used on the defensive end and these charts paint a very clear image of his usage so far.

What’s the debate exactly?

People really overrate 1-on-1 defense. Guarding the most difficult matchup on the opposing team is nice but as Gobert alluded to in response to Edwards, it pales in comparison to essentially guarding the whole team. Mobley’s assignment isn’t to take on the best scorer. It’s to take away as much space on the floor as possible for all 5 guys. And him doing that so successfully is a big reason why the Cavs went from the #25 defense last year to #2 this year and why he’s by far the most impactful defender in the class.

My eye tells me Mobley has been a good to exceptional man defender as well, so, I wonder how well those charts do to capture individual defense when looking at a player that's out there trying to contest everything and everyone.

[DroseReturnChi]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 29. Mobley still on top, Franz keeps moving up.

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

[Madhouse]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 29. Mobley still on top, Franz keeps moving up.

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

your trolling needs work.

Out of the top 13 voted advanced metrics Barnes ranks:

1st
3rd
2nd
1st
3rd
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd

https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced-stats-nba-real-plus-minus-rapm-win-shares-analytics/

you aren't very good at this.

[LoveMyRaps]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 29. Mobley still on top, Franz keeps moving up.

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

your trolling needs work.

Out of the top 13 voted advanced metrics Barnes ranks:

1st
3rd
2nd
1st
3rd
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd

https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced-stats-nba-real-plus-minus-rapm-win-shares-analytics/

you aren't very good at this.

don't pay him no mind. he's one of the biggest barnes haters on this thread even though he's never seen him play.

[OrlMagic05]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 29. Mobley still on top, Franz keeps moving up.

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

Oh boy Raptor fans are going to be coming for your head lol

[AaronB]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 29. Mobley still on top, Franz keeps moving up.

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

your trolling needs work.

Out of the top 13 voted advanced metrics Barnes ranks:

1st
3rd
2nd
1st
3rd
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd

https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced-stats-nba-real-plus-minus-rapm-win-shares-analytics/

you aren't very good at this.

It does not matter.

This poster chose EPM, which some people like best and has Wagner slightly above Barnes and Mobley at the top.

I like RAPTOR WAR, which has Barnes slightly above Wagner (both well above Mobley).

Right now, I don't think there is a right answer about which one of the 3 is better.

I said earlier in this thread that I would not trade Wagner for either Barnes or Mobley.

Not because I thought he was better, but because every time think he has a limitation, he shows that he does not.

Hard to get a handle on that kind of guy.

His handle, which I thought was a weakness, is legit.

Maybe not as natural as, for example, Larry Bird, but extremely effective both in the open court and near the basket.

Also, he is now a legit 6-10. Probably 6-10 barefoot.

[Vampirate]

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

your trolling needs work.

Out of the top 13 voted advanced metrics Barnes ranks:

1st
3rd
2nd
1st
3rd
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd

https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced-stats-nba-real-plus-minus-rapm-win-shares-analytics/

you aren't very good at this.

It does not matter.

This poster chose EPM, which some people like best and has Wagner slightly above Barnes and Mobley at the top.

I like RAPTOR WAR, which has Barnes slightly above Wagner (both well above Mobley).

Right now, I don't think there is a right answer about which one of the 3 is better.

I said earlier in this thread that I would not trade Wagner for either Barnes or Mobley.

Not because I thought he was better, but because every time think he has a limitation, he shows that he does not.

Hard to get a handle on that kind of guy.

His handle, which I thought was a weakness, is legit.

Maybe not as natural as, for example, Larry Bird, but extremely effective both in the open court and near the basket.

Also, he is now a legit 6-10. Probably 6-10 barefoot.

I don't think either the Raptor, Cavs or Magic fanbase would trade their players for the other. I can make a legitimate argument for each player.

For all 3 of them it's difficult to know what there ceilings are as of now.

[Statlanta]

I can understand not feeling high on Wagner. He isn't bringing a new archetype to the NBA. His 38 point game felt like Booker's 70 point game in that most his points happened in the blowout.

I just like that he feels a position that the Magic haven't had since Hedo Turkoglu. A reliable SF on the roster.

[AaronB]

I can understand not feeling high on Wagner. He isn't bringing a new archetype to the NBA. His 38 point game felt like Booker's 70 point game in that most his points happened in the blowout.

I just like that he feels a position that the Magic haven't had since Hedo Turkoglu. A reliable SF on the roster.

This is not true.

Wagner was scoring in the 4th when the bucks lead was under 10.

As a rookie, Wagner is a much better basketball player than Turkaglu, not even close even if the stats are close.

Wagner's team D is much better and BBiq is much better.

[AaronB]

your trolling needs work.

Out of the top 13 voted advanced metrics Barnes ranks:

1st
3rd
2nd
1st
3rd
2nd
1st
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd

https://hoopshype.com/lists/advanced-stats-nba-real-plus-minus-rapm-win-shares-analytics/

you aren't very good at this.

It does not matter.

This poster chose EPM, which some people like best and has Wagner slightly above Barnes and Mobley at the top.

I like RAPTOR WAR, which has Barnes slightly above Wagner (both well above Mobley).

Right now, I don't think there is a right answer about which one of the 3 is better.

I said earlier in this thread that I would not trade Wagner for either Barnes or Mobley.

Not because I thought he was better, but because every time think he has a limitation, he shows that he does not.

Hard to get a handle on that kind of guy.

His handle, which I thought was a weakness, is legit.

Maybe not as natural as, for example, Larry Bird, but extremely effective both in the open court and near the basket.

Also, he is now a legit 6-10. Probably 6-10 barefoot.

I don't think either the Raptor, Cavs or Magic fanbase would trade their players for the other. I can make a legitimate argument for each player.

For all 3 of them it's difficult to know what there ceilings are as of now.

100% agree.

With Wagner, there is a bit of anti-Euro bias, and I think Mobley is a little more projectable.

But Barnes' shooting and Wagner's handle and overall play has caught people like me by surprise.

[thelead]

Franz having another efficient game. 16pts on 6/10 shooting midway through the 3rd.

[DroseReturnChi]

I can understand not feeling high on Wagner. He isn't bringing a new archetype to the NBA. His 38 point game felt like Booker's 70 point game in that most his points happened in the blowout.

I just like that he feels a position that the Magic haven't had since Hedo Turkoglu. A reliable SF on the roster.

hes not bringing anything new compared to college game. hes just putting up stats on a bad team.
but i will give him props that he adjusted to nba from day 1 not many can do. he would need to make massive improvements until yr 4 to peg him as all star plenty fall off like tyler herro.

[TheLand13]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 29. Mobley still on top, Franz keeps moving up.

yep barnes is barely top 3 huge gap from mobley, franz. but franz seems to peaked dont see him all star level.

Huge gap? What makes you think it's a huge gap based on the chart provided?

[SOUL]

I can understand not feeling high on Wagner. He isn't bringing a new archetype to the NBA. His 38 point game felt like Booker's 70 point game in that most his points happened in the blowout.

I just like that he feels a position that the Magic haven't had since Hedo Turkoglu. A reliable SF on the roster.

He was + in a blowout while playing a **** of minutes and kept the game close, wouldn't say he was just piling on points since he kept the team afloat.

[thelead]

I can understand not feeling high on Wagner. He isn't bringing a new archetype to the NBA. His 38 point game felt like Booker's 70 point game in that most his points happened in the blowout.

I just like that he feels a position that the Magic haven't had since Hedo Turkoglu. A reliable SF on the roster.

hes not bringing anything new compared to college game. hes just putting up stats on a bad team.
but i will give him props that he adjusted to nba from day 1 not many can do. he would need to make massive improvements until yr 4 to peg him as all star plenty fall off like tyler herro.

I understand the 'putting up stats on a bad team' thing but not when it's on 45/36/83 spits. For the month of December, he played 14 games while averaging 20/5/3 on 48/39/88 spits. All while doing it against defenses locking in on him. Hell, he just went 38pts and 20pts against Milwaukee and had double teams thrown his way.

[SOUL]

Franz is 100% in the ROY race, I don't get people dismissing him or thinking he's unimpressive. That's silly. I don't think he will win it though, for one reason alone:

Barnes and Mobley just have to play average ball and continue to play how they play and maintain the status quo basically. Franz has been efficient and solid all the way around just like they have, but I think he would have to have some more huge scoring nights to actually win it. What I'm saying is that his play warrants him being in the mix and debated with the other two guys + Cade, but since his game is more scoring based (even though he doesn't have a huge "weakness" besides consistent rebounding), his offense is what will have to carry him which is hard as a rookie but impressive that he's settled in so quickly.

[TheLand13]

This was actually the first back to back 20 point performance of Mobley's career, 21 to be exact for tonight on 50% shooting to go along with five rebounds, two blocks and a steal. Cleveland is clearly missing Allen and Garland, but it's noteworthy to see how effective Mobley has been offensively since he's had to take on a bigger load. Makes me wonder what kind of numbers he would be putting up if he was the clear cut number one guy on the team (same could be said about Barnes though).

Also, I noticed Mobley was taking the ball up the court a lot for Cleveland tonight. Found that very interesting.

[thelead]

This was actually the first back to back 20 point performance of Mobley's career, 21 to be exact for tonight on 50% shooting to go along with five rebounds, two blocks and a steal. Cleveland is clearly missing Allen and Garland, but it's noteworthy to see how effective Mobley has been offensively since he's had to take on a bigger load. Makes me wonder what kind of numbers he would be putting up if he was the clear cut number one guy on the team (same could be said about Barnes though).

Also, I noticed Mobley was taking the ball up the court a lot for Cleveland tonight. Found that very interesting.

I'll have to go back and watch the highlights since I was watching the magic game instead. I love what Mobley brings to the game. Funny, I would love to see a team of:

Mobley
Barnes
Franz
Suggs or Green or Giddey
Cade

That would be fun to see.

[basketballRob]

This was actually the first back to back 20 point performance of Mobley's career, 21 to be exact for tonight on 50% shooting to go along with five rebounds, two blocks and a steal. Cleveland is clearly missing Allen and Garland, but it's noteworthy to see how effective Mobley has been offensively since he's had to take on a bigger load. Makes me wonder what kind of numbers he would be putting up if he was the clear cut number one guy on the team (same could be said about Barnes though).

Also, I noticed Mobley was taking the ball up the court a lot for Cleveland tonight. Found that very interesting.

Hopefully, they don't ask him to do too much. I know Franz looked pretty gassed. 15 games this month and he handled the ball a lot.

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