2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[tmorgan]

I think it’s fair to say Cade can already create shots, for himself and others, at an All-Star level. He sees the floor very well, instructs teammates, calls out changes, and has a big bag to pull from.

Now making the shots… he’s not there yet, and as far as All-Star level, it’s not even close. That’s true for his teammates as well. It’s not a strong roster or a good shooting team in general. Bey has struggled, Olynyk has been hurt and struggled, and Grant was out quite a while. The Pistons’ guards outside of Cade have to be the worst in the league.

To be fair, though, it’s important to remember that rookie guards and ball handling wings almost always struggle with this. LeBron, KD, Melo, and a much longer list. For every rookie Chris Paul, there are dozens that struggle with shot selection and shooting in the pros early on.

[zike_42]

I have read something like that even about other players in the draft class, too.

But how often is it reasonable? 2016 onwards you'd have Simmons, Tatum, Luka, Zion as the pretty clear-cut rookies most fans would take out of their respective classes during their rookie years. Last year obviously it would've been pretty split between Ant and LaMelo. I honestly can't think of the last time there were 3 different rookies with legitimate cases as the best prospect in their rookie years.

not often reasonable. 3-way ROY race is rare.

Just as a side note, there has never been a three-way RotY winner. However, there have been five instances of a two-way tie for RotY:
1951-52 - Mel Hutchins/Bill Tosheff
1970-71 - Geoff Petrie/Dave Cowens
1970-71 - Dan Issel/Charlie Scott (ABA)
1994-95 - Jason Kidd/Grant Hill
1999-00 - Steve Francis/Elton Brand

So I'm guessing the three-way award is out of the question, but if it was a two-way selection, who would the two be?

[The Moose]

That is some bad (but not unexpected) shooting. Why does he get a pass from many casual fans for his percentages?

I think its opposite where casual fans would see it as more of a problem just stat watching.

Anybody who watches him leaves pretty impressed after at how advanced he is at his age as the #1 guy on his squad. He has a arsenal of moves as a 3 level scorer who commands alot of attention from defenses. Plus he also plays hard on defense all game.

His defence is quite good and he tries hard. But his red flag going into the league was he can't shoot. And he still can't shoot. 28% from 3 is not a three level scorer lol. 28% from 3 on 6 attempts per game is dumb. Look a little closer at his stats and he is basically a lite-Russell Westbrook on offense at this point. He has a ton of potential, but he is not good at this point.

what?
that was literally seen as one his elite strengths coming into the NBA, he shot 40% from 3 in college on high volume.
Then he shot 50% from 3 in a few summer league games, got injured, missed all of training camp, preseason and the start of the regular season and came back with rusty shooting.

After the 1st month of the season (so since december) he's shooting 35% from 3 on 2 3pm per game and over 200 attempts. This is all while having a very high usage as a rookie. If he was being used as just a spot up shooter, that percentage would probably rise.

Also I've never heard of a player who "can't shoot" be an 85% ft shooter as a rookie

[Upperclass]

He's looked even better than his stats.. Dude controls the game on a Luka, Harden, LeBron level in terms of situational IQ

[BuddyBuckets]

Piston fans what position do you think he's best suited for in the NBA? What type of player(s) do you want to round out the starting 5? Assuming Grant stays and Bey is a starter.

[MrBigShot]

Piston fans what position do you think he's best suited for in the NBA? What type of player(s) do you want to round out the starting 5? Assuming Grant stays and Bey is a starter.

He's got the mix of handle, poise, passing and court vision to be a team's primary ball handler and playmaker. So PG, with his backcourt mate having a skillset similar to LaVine offensively; good offball but can get his own shot and serve as a secondary playmaker. A bigman that can catch lobs and shoot the 3 would be great. John Collins and Christian Wood are two guys that come to mind that would be great fits with Cade.

Bagley isn't even that good but he's on pace for 20/10 per 36 with us, because Cade gets him a handful of lobs and easy layups/dunks.

I don't really think Kilian Hayes is the answer moving forward. If Kilian pans out I think he becomes a good back-up PG. He's too atrocious as a scorer to really be starting caliber. Getting Chet, Ivey, or Jabari Smith in this draft would be really great.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think it’s fair to say Cade can already create shots, for himself and others, at an All-Star level. He sees the floor very well, instructs teammates, calls out changes, and has a big bag to pull from.

Now making the shots… he’s not there yet, and as far as All-Star level, it’s not even close. That’s true for his teammates as well. It’s not a strong roster or a good shooting team in general. Bey has struggled, Olynyk has been hurt and struggled, and Grant was out quite a while. The Pistons’ guards outside of Cade have to be the worst in the league.

To be fair, though, it’s important to remember that rookie guards and ball handling wings almost always struggle with this. LeBron, KD, Melo, and a much longer list. For every rookie Chris Paul, there are dozens that struggle with shot selection and shooting in the pros early on.

Chris Paul was a wizard right from the jump, and even he shot 43% and 28% from 3. Super efficient scoring for a young guard is the exception not the norm. I've thought Cade looked really good lately, those shots will start to drop a lot more often.

[tmorgan]

Yeah, now that I just double-checked, even CP3 wasn’t a very efficient scorer early on. But his game control skills and A/TO ratio were extremely impressive.

Creating your own shot and shooting over NBA athletes is not something most rookies are good at. You have to learn what you can get away with and what you can’t, player tendencies, earn ref respect, and a whole bunch of other things.

[Madhouse]

But how often is it reasonable? 2016 onwards you'd have Simmons, Tatum, Luka, Zion as the pretty clear-cut rookies most fans would take out of their respective classes during their rookie years. Last year obviously it would've been pretty split between Ant and LaMelo. I honestly can't think of the last time there were 3 different rookies with legitimate cases as the best prospect in their rookie years.

not often reasonable. 3-way ROY race is rare.

Just as a side note, there has never been a three-way RotY winner. However, there have been five instances of a two-way tie for RotY:
1951-52 - Mel Hutchins/Bill Tosheff
1970-71 - Geoff Petrie/Dave Cowens
1970-71 - Dan Issel/Charlie Scott (ABA)
1994-95 - Jason Kidd/Grant Hill
1999-00 - Steve Francis/Elton Brand

So I'm guessing the three-way award is out of the question, but if it was a two-way selection, who would the two be?

Not expecting any tie whatsoever, just saying that it could be deserving for this year.

[Mr Peanut]

So you are saying that he is good this year? Or he has potential to be good?

Also, how many basketball games do you watch each year? I'm sure that you watch more Pistons games than I do, but I can almost certainly tell you that I watch more games than you do. The watch games arguement is so weak. He has the 3rd worst eFG% in the league.

To be fair, KD had a .451 eFG% and .288 3pt% in his rookie season. Not comparing the 2 but just pointing out that rookie shooting numbers are not the end all/be all. If he still shoots it like this by the end of year 2, there should be more cause for concern. Cade is taking some trash shots - partly because he doesn't have anyone on the team other than Grant and partly because he has the green light to chuck with little repercussion. If I'm a Pistons fan, the second part is more concerning to me. They need to put a system and some decent players around him after the draft this year for his overall development.

Right and if you read my posts that is exactly what I say. Everyone just wanting to post without reading. You and I agree. To be honest, I think I agree with most posters on here, just many of them are not able to read or have just pretty bad comprehension skills. Maybe my fault for giving some people too much credit. There is a difference between current level and potential, as you said (and as I said like 11 times now). Did you watch Cade in college?

I don't think the issue is anyone's reading comprehension skills. I think everyone is quote replying you because it's plain as day that you haven't watched many games in which Cade has played.

When you do, it will become obvious how much he controls the tempo of the offense, gets to wherever he wants to on the court, sets up so much for his teammates, and how much of a beast he has been in the clutch. But if you're just going to wade into this thread to quote eFG% and make ridiculous comparisons, then most people aren't going to put much stock in your opinion.

[The Moose]

I think it’s fair to say Cade can already create shots, for himself and others, at an All-Star level. He sees the floor very well, instructs teammates, calls out changes, and has a big bag to pull from.

Now making the shots… he’s not there yet, and as far as All-Star level, it’s not even close. That’s true for his teammates as well. It’s not a strong roster or a good shooting team in general. Bey has struggled, Olynyk has been hurt and struggled, and Grant was out quite a while. The Pistons’ guards outside of Cade have to be the worst in the league.

To be fair, though, it’s important to remember that rookie guards and ball handling wings almost always struggle with this. LeBron, KD, Melo, and a much longer list. For every rookie Chris Paul, there are dozens that struggle with shot selection and shooting in the pros early on.

Trae had 42/32 splits too, its fairly common

[robbie84]

Negative defensive player but has length and work ethic to become at least a good defender.

[AussieCeltic]

Is Snowwy trolling or what

[Madhouse]

Since the allstar break:

Scottie Barnes: +4.2 BPM, 19/8/3/2/1, 57% FG, 62% TS
Evan Mobley: +0.4 BPM, 15/10/3/1/2, 49% FG, 54% TS
Cade Cunningham: -0.5 BPM, 22/8/6/1/1, 44% FG, 52% TS
Jalen Green: +2.1 BPM, 20/3/4/1, 49% FG, 58% TS
Franz Wagner: -0.3 BPM, 13/5/3/1, 46% FG, 54% TS
Jonathan Kuminga: -0.6 BPM, 15/5/1/1/1, 52% FG, 64% TS
Ayo Dosunmu: +0.1 BPM, 11/3/5/2/1, 57% FG, 63% TS

[JackTalkThai]

Since 2010, NBA rookies with games of 25-5-5…

Luka Doncic - 15
Blake Griffin - 14
Cade Cunningham - 8 (14 games remaining)
Trae Young - 6
John Wall - 6

[Snowwy]

To be fair, KD had a .451 eFG% and .288 3pt% in his rookie season. Not comparing the 2 but just pointing out that rookie shooting numbers are not the end all/be all. If he still shoots it like this by the end of year 2, there should be more cause for concern. Cade is taking some trash shots - partly because he doesn't have anyone on the team other than Grant and partly because he has the green light to chuck with little repercussion. If I'm a Pistons fan, the second part is more concerning to me. They need to put a system and some decent players around him after the draft this year for his overall development.

Right and if you read my posts that is exactly what I say. Everyone just wanting to post without reading. You and I agree. To be honest, I think I agree with most posters on here, just many of them are not able to read or have just pretty bad comprehension skills. Maybe my fault for giving some people too much credit. There is a difference between current level and potential, as you said (and as I said like 11 times now). Did you watch Cade in college?

I don't think the issue is anyone's reading comprehension skills. I think everyone is quote replying you because it's plain as day that you haven't watched many games in which Cade has played.

When you do, it will become obvious how much he controls the tempo of the offense, gets to wherever he wants to on the court, sets up so much for his teammates, and how much of a beast he has been in the clutch. But if you're just going to wade into this thread to quote eFG% and make ridiculous comparisons, then most people aren't going to put much stock in your opinion.

So just to clarify, are you saying he is a good shooter? Or not. Because my claim is he is not a good shooter. Obviously he isn't. You agreed with me by omission with a long winded post totally ignoring shooting.

[mulamutti]

As a toronto raptors fan, i think Cade should get ROY. Regardless of the stats, he is the best of the lot right now. He's the primary ball handler and creator and he is absolutely playing amazing. He is an obvious all star, but stuck in a trash team with a mediocre coach. If the Pistons don't get their act together and pull off a cavaliers style off season, they may lose him eventually.

[everdiso]

I just noticed that Mobley has lost the edge in analytics that he had earlier on:

Mobley: 0.7bpm, 0.9epm, -0.5dpm, -0.6raptor, 1.2lebron = 0.4 average
Scottie: 0.8bpm, 0.0epm, 0.0dpm, 0.7raptor, -0.1lebron = 0.3 average


The lebron stat there is the only one of the 5 that hasn't been updated yet - it's about a week old.

[Liqourish]

Is Snowwy trolling or what

Raptor fan.

[HiRez]

Rookie tracker through Mar. 13.