NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[G R E Y]

GG, Knicks fans!

[deneem4]

The rest are all true (especially 76ers relying on Harden & Maxey to win games), but Bones has been anything but good lol. Sub 40% shooting, below average WS/BPM/VORP, etc.

Jokic is single handedly carrying these scrubs yet again,

Pelicans and nuggets trade,
(Guessing you’re kinda of a nuggets fan)
….If there’s one possible
Or wait it out?
Edit** took realistically out
////contracts aside///
bones for herb?
Cj for Gordon?
Val for Porter?
Pope for graham????

Yes to the Bones for Herb trade! The rest, eh.

You would trade Jones for bones right now???

[bstein14]

Luka might end up putting up the most insane stats, but I have never been a fan of giving MVP to a player that doesn't lead their team to a top 3 record in their conference.

In the East you have Tatum, Giannis, and KD all with top 3 records and Jokic has his team tied for best in the West. I think Luka is the frontrunner right now with this latest run he's been on but I do feel like we're still in a really tight race.

[CobraCommander]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some really games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

Yep so this is what this thread looks like…



Choose your champion- no real wrong answer between Luka, Giannis, curry, KD, Jokic, Embiid, Tatum… but it’s fun to talk-

The voters leaning Tatum still cause one game not changing the writers minds - someone called out Book gave you 70 so the writers don’t really value monster games like we do… they also truly have voter fatigue- they still think Giannis is best player in world, have a problem with Embiid, love Tatum almost irrationally (maybe because he is playing for a storied franchise and is the lone American at the top), talk about Ja alll the damn time, if curry healthy he gonna get some votes cause his numbers were staggering before injury- KD coming strong…

Just proves there isn’t a single guy that the voters see as the Lebron
Heir apparent -

[deneem4]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some really games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

Yep so this is what this thread looks like…



Choose your champion- no real wrong answer between Luka, Giannis, curry, KD, Jokic, Embiid, Tatum… but it’s fun to talk-

The voters leaning Tatum still cause one game not changing the writers minds - someone called out Book gave you 70 so the writers don’t really value monster games like we do… they also truly have voter fatigue- they still think Giannis is best player in world, have a problem with Embiid, love Tatum almost irrationally (maybe because he is playing for a storied franchise and is the lone American at the top), talk about Ja alll the damn time, if curry healthy he gonna get some votes cause his numbers were staggering before injury- KD coming strong…

Just proves there isn’t a single guy that the voters see as the Lebron
Heir apparent -

Somehow lebron lasted to be considered curry nemesis and curry holds the throne (even with the kd carry)

But since curry is out it’s up in the air
Giannas got a ring and is the best 2 way player in the league (facts)
Jokic needs a ring to validate another mvp regardless of his team health or otherwise
Luka needs to carry his team to a ring since his fans has made that his narrative
Tatum….curry is king
Embiid shares nightmares with harden about kwahi
And ja might get it if Zion eats too much during all star break (Memphis should trade for rose)

[CobraCommander]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some really games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

Yep so this is what this thread looks like…



Choose your champion- no real wrong answer between Luka, Giannis, curry, KD, Jokic, Embiid, Tatum… but it’s fun to talk-

The voters leaning Tatum still cause one game not changing the writers minds - someone called out Book gave you 70 so the writers don’t really value monster games like we do… they also truly have voter fatigue- they still think Giannis is best player in world, have a problem with Embiid, love Tatum almost irrationally (maybe because he is playing for a storied franchise and is the lone American at the top), talk about Ja alll the damn time, if curry healthy he gonna get some votes cause his numbers were staggering before injury- KD coming strong…

Just proves there isn’t a single guy that the voters see as the Lebron
Heir apparent -

Somehow lebron lasted to be considered curry nemesis and curry holds the throne (even with the kd carry)

But since curry is out it’s up in the air
Giannas got a ring and is the best 2 way player in the league (facts)
Jokic needs a ring to validate another mvp regardless of his team health or otherwise
Luka needs to carry his team to a ring since his fans has made that his narrative
Tatum….curry is king
Embiid shares nightmares with harden about kwahi
And ja might get it if Zion eats too much during all star break (Memphis should trade for rose)

So this curry’s league?

Or is it the period between jordan and Lebron where we had shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, tmac, Yao,nash etc - and while shaq and Kobe and Duncan were considered the absolute best - there were guys that were amazing too but just didn’t get as many rings and thus were not considered as well- Shaq was the most dominate but you can’t deny the other guys

[deneem4]

Yep so this is what this thread looks like…



Choose your champion- no real wrong answer between Luka, Giannis, curry, KD, Jokic, Embiid, Tatum… but it’s fun to talk-

The voters leaning Tatum still cause one game not changing the writers minds - someone called out Book gave you 70 so the writers don’t really value monster games like we do… they also truly have voter fatigue- they still think Giannis is best player in world, have a problem with Embiid, love Tatum almost irrationally (maybe because he is playing for a storied franchise and is the lone American at the top), talk about Ja alll the damn time, if curry healthy he gonna get some votes cause his numbers were staggering before injury- KD coming strong…

Just proves there isn’t a single guy that the voters see as the Lebron
Heir apparent -

Somehow lebron lasted to be considered curry nemesis and curry holds the throne (even with the kd carry)

But since curry is out it’s up in the air
Giannas got a ring and is the best 2 way player in the league (facts)
Jokic needs a ring to validate another mvp regardless of his team health or otherwise
Luka needs to carry his team to a ring since his fans has made that his narrative
Tatum….curry is king
Embiid shares nightmares with harden about kwahi
And ja might get it if Zion eats too much during all star break (Memphis should trade for rose)

So this curry’s league?

Or is it the period between jordan and Lebron where we had shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, tmac, Yao,nash etc - and while shaq and Kobe and Duncan were considered the absolute best - there were guys that were amazing too but just didn’t get as many rings and thus were not considered as well- Shaq was the most dominate but you can’t deny the other guys

It’s a new type of period
Lebron wasn’t dominant like jordan
(2 3peats etc)
But lebron has been dominant in his own way
(And I’m not the biggest lebron fan)
Curry isn’t dominant like lebron
(Self explanatory)
But curry changed the game in his way

With that said

I don’t see 3 pests happening again
Nor anybody beating the scoring record
Nor anybody making kids want to shoot soon as they touch halfcourt

The league is up for grabs, one thing I haven’t seen is a compact shaq,
Or a Derrick rose without injury problems,
or a harden/Westbrook ball player that won it all
Or whatever embiid and Jokic is doing
as far as impacting

Maybe kwahi and pg or Tatum and brown might jordan and pippen

[CobraCommander]

Somehow lebron lasted to be considered curry nemesis and curry holds the throne (even with the kd carry)

But since curry is out it’s up in the air
Giannas got a ring and is the best 2 way player in the league (facts)
Jokic needs a ring to validate another mvp regardless of his team health or otherwise
Luka needs to carry his team to a ring since his fans has made that his narrative
Tatum….curry is king
Embiid shares nightmares with harden about kwahi
And ja might get it if Zion eats too much during all star break (Memphis should trade for rose)

So this curry’s league?

Or is it the period between jordan and Lebron where we had shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, tmac, Yao,nash etc - and while shaq and Kobe and Duncan were considered the absolute best - there were guys that were amazing too but just didn’t get as many rings and thus were not considered as well- Shaq was the most dominate but you can’t deny the other guys

It’s a new type of period
Lebron wasn’t dominant like jordan
(2 3peats etc)
But lebron has been dominant in his own way
(And I’m not the biggest lebron fan)
Curry isn’t dominant like lebron
(Self explanatory)
But curry changed the game in his way

With that said

I don’t see 3 pests happening again
Nor anybody beating the scoring record
Nor anybody making kids want to shoot soon as they touch halfcourt

The league is up for grabs, one thing I haven’t seen is a compact shaq,
Or a Derrick rose without injury problems,
or a harden/Westbrook ball player that won it all
Or whatever embiid and Jokic is doing
as far as impacting

Maybe kwahi and pg or Tatum and brown might jordan and pippen

Agreed- the league has a ton of parity

[deneem4]

So this curry’s league?

Or is it the period between jordan and Lebron where we had shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, tmac, Yao,nash etc - and while shaq and Kobe and Duncan were considered the absolute best - there were guys that were amazing too but just didn’t get as many rings and thus were not considered as well- Shaq was the most dominate but you can’t deny the other guys

It’s a new type of period
Lebron wasn’t dominant like jordan
(2 3peats etc)
But lebron has been dominant in his own way
(And I’m not the biggest lebron fan)
Curry isn’t dominant like lebron
(Self explanatory)
But curry changed the game in his way

With that said

I don’t see 3 pests happening again
Nor anybody beating the scoring record
Nor anybody making kids want to shoot soon as they touch halfcourt

The league is up for grabs, one thing I haven’t seen is a compact shaq,
Or a Derrick rose without injury problems,
or a harden/Westbrook ball player that won it all
Or whatever embiid and Jokic is doing
as far as impacting

Maybe kwahi and pg or Tatum and brown might jordan and pippen

Agreed- the league has a ton of parity

But if compact shaq could coexist with quiet kd
It’s gon take more than victor to change that trajectory
Embiid vs Zion tomorrow
Jokic vs butler

[BuddyBuckets]

I'm just happy Zion is in the conversation now. Needs to get a 'snub' year under his belt yet. Might not even be this year. But a top seeded Pels led by Zion could be a case for top 2 in voting.

[deneem4]

I'm just happy Zion is in the conversation now. Needs to get a 'snub' year under his belt yet. Might not even be this year. But a top seeded Pels led by Zion could be a case for top 2 in voting.

If bi was playing and Pelicans was the top seed in the west
Would he be getting the Tatum treatment?

[BuddyBuckets]

I'm just happy Zion is in the conversation now. Needs to get a 'snub' year under his belt yet. Might not even be this year. But a top seeded Pels led by Zion could be a case for top 2 in voting.

If bi was playing and Pelicans was the top seed in the west
Would he be getting the Tatum treatment?

I dunno man, I think Boston is a deep team too so could draw parallels. I think it will be interesting to see how BI comes back. It looked like earlier in the season it was 'his' team and now it looks like Zion is the best player in the Pels. So if BI comes back and Zion still gets his 25-30 a game on insane efficiency and Pels stay top seed. Maybe some noise happens. Jokic and Giannis still seem like they are above the rest, Giannis less so this year imo. But a guy like Tatum is prime for an MVP because some may argue he was snubbed already. Seems rare to me a guy just wins MVP without being highly counted for it prior.

[deneem4]

I'm just happy Zion is in the conversation now. Needs to get a 'snub' year under his belt yet. Might not even be this year. But a top seeded Pels led by Zion could be a case for top 2 in voting.

If bi was playing and Pelicans was the top seed in the west
Would he be getting the Tatum treatment?

I dunno man, I think Boston is a deep team too so could draw parallels. I think it will be interesting to see how BI comes back. It looked like earlier in the season it was 'his' team and now it looks like Zion is the best player in the Pels. So if BI comes back and Zion still gets his 25-30 a game on insane efficiency and Pels stay top seed. Maybe some noise happens. Jokic and Giannis still seem like they are above the rest, Giannis less so this year imo. But a guy like Tatum is prime for an MVP because some may argue he was snubbed already. Seems rare to me a guy just wins MVP without being highly counted for it prior.

So Zion need bi to play and need to be a top seed for some noise to happen?
I’m lost

[Yuri36]

Mavs are 0-3 without Luka... and 20-13 with him this season

Definition of MVP.
And that's without even looking at who are his Robins comparing to the Robins of the other MVP candidates:
-J.Brown for Tatum (just one of the top 20 players in the league this season and even in general)
-J.Murray for Joker
-Middleton and Holiday for Giannis
-J.Harden for Embiid (nuff said)

No competition really especially if Dallas make the top 4 in West.....except funnily enough perhaps Zion (who I love as a player and even more as a person) if he and Pels continue with that current streak (though Zion's stat line is not complete enough to challenge guys like Luka and Joker in particular)

[Bob8]

If bi was playing and Pelicans was the top seed in the west
Would he be getting the Tatum treatment?

I dunno man, I think Boston is a deep team too so could draw parallels. I think it will be interesting to see how BI comes back. It looked like earlier in the season it was 'his' team and now it looks like Zion is the best player in the Pels. So if BI comes back and Zion still gets his 25-30 a game on insane efficiency and Pels stay top seed. Maybe some noise happens. Jokic and Giannis still seem like they are above the rest, Giannis less so this year imo. But a guy like Tatum is prime for an MVP because some may argue he was snubbed already. Seems rare to me a guy just wins MVP without being highly counted for it prior.

So Zion need bi to play and need to be a top seed for some noise to happen?
I’m lost

https://stathead.com/tiny/fUeBV

Luka more wins, when they're playing.

[Exp0sed]

I'm just happy Zion is in the conversation now. Needs to get a 'snub' year under his belt yet. Might not even be this year. But a top seeded Pels led by Zion could be a case for top 2 in voting.

If bi was playing and Pelicans was the top seed in the west
Would he be getting the Tatum treatment?

When Tatum was getting "the Tatum treatment", the Celtics had by far the best record in the league
and despite their insane depth and early hot shooting by basically their entire roster, not to mention JB playing like a top 15-20 player - he was still crowned "quarter MVP" itt and was a top candidate in media outlets etc.

so idk what u mean by the Tatum treatment

The Pels are first in the West (with a fragile edge) and Zion is getting serious MVP talk so i'm not really seeing what the problem is tbh

Zion played worse when Bi was playing, very likely it was because it was early in the season but let's not pretend as if he was playing this well but not getting talk because of Bi, he's only been this "hot" for a month or a little more

moreover, when BI comes bac if Zion continues his rampage on the league - i'd expect the Pels to win alot of games and quite easily be first in the West, as the West's elite teams all have serious flaws, issues and or injuries

with a great record and 1st in the West, Zion will get plenty of MVP talk and rightfully so, even if his raw numbers will suffer a bit due to BI coming back \ less usage etc.

i don't feel like Zion is at a 100% yet or even close, i think he has an even higher gear
we saw it in his soph season and he has probaby grown as a player since then

the 13 straight points in crunch time to close the game with defense to boot is like a tiny version of that Lebron show vs the Pistons back in the day

that was obviously on a different level of dominance, probably the best in history especially since it was the semis and i'm not comparing the two performances, just saying that it's somewhere on that scale

Playoff Zion is gonna be a real thing

I have him over Durant atm

[Yuri36]

Right now, Luka and Tatum are neck and neck, after that, Embiid, Jokic/Giannis.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Lol how can Tatum be neck and neck with anyone in the MVP ballot when his Robin is by a country mile better than all of the Robins of the other MVP candidates and when his stat line is not as complete as guys like Joker or Luka?
Make no mistake, he and Celtics are having a fantastic season but guys like Joker or Luka are having historical ones....and their teams have still at most only 6 more losses than Celtics despite being overall far less stacked.

[Johnny Tomala]

1. Jokić
2. Doncić
3. Williamson

For me at this moment

[BuddyBuckets]

If bi was playing and Pelicans was the top seed in the west
Would he be getting the Tatum treatment?

I dunno man, I think Boston is a deep team too so could draw parallels. I think it will be interesting to see how BI comes back. It looked like earlier in the season it was 'his' team and now it looks like Zion is the best player in the Pels. So if BI comes back and Zion still gets his 25-30 a game on insane efficiency and Pels stay top seed. Maybe some noise happens. Jokic and Giannis still seem like they are above the rest, Giannis less so this year imo. But a guy like Tatum is prime for an MVP because some may argue he was snubbed already. Seems rare to me a guy just wins MVP without being highly counted for it prior.

So Zion need bi to play and need to be a top seed for some noise to happen?
I’m lost

Yea I'm not tryna hyperbole the switch. Zion is playing amazing, started a thread on the GB about it and he's kept it up. I just see many factors in okay for MVP and Zion may meet some criteria regardless, but yes, being the clearly best player on the 1st seed Pels come end of season is a factor.

It's only December and the west is tight. I'm not saying too much now.

[Petergrifindor]

It has to be Luka.

The only other player that I see as more or less on a similar level right now is Jokic, all the others fall behind, but when directly compared, Jokic season looks kind of lazy, while Luka's looks like Hercules 13th chore.