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Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:51 am
by Andri
Hot takes are hot
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:21 am
by FluLikeSymptoms
Raps in 4 wrote:FluLikeSymptoms wrote:The only players better than Jokic since bulls MJ are Shaq, TD, and LeBron but you can put him with anyone else.
Steph is also ahead. He matched Jokic's peak in terms of production, and he has more titles (even if we don't count the KD ones).
I just mean as a level, not necessarily accomplishments. I’d be more worried about playing Jokic than any version of Curry, the control, the metronomic excellence- he can’t have a bad game. I love Steph and obviously Joker’s not a million miles ahead of Steph or Kobe or Giannis but to me there’s a bit of a gap.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:29 am
by PedroFlu
People still in denial. Lets see what theyll say if he gets his 2nd in a row.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:30 am
by PedroFlu
I mean, just watch him. It feels impossible to beat him.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 11:57 am
by Bolivar
JustBuzzin wrote:Jokic is a puppet. I can tell he's not in the GOAT discussion because any GOAT who on the verge of getting swept would be getting crucified.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:15 pm
by HotRocks34
Jordan swept
1986....R1
1987....R1
.
.
.
LeBron swept
2007....Finals
2018....Finals
2023....WCF (by Jokic)
.
.
.
Jokic swept
2021....R2
Jokic is doing ok in this metric. Campazzo and Austin Rivers each started 3 games in the 2021 Suns series, and both were top-6 in minutes played for Denver in the series.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:47 pm
by dhsilv2
Raps in 4 wrote:FluLikeSymptoms wrote:The only players better than Jokic since bulls MJ are Shaq, TD, and LeBron but you can put him with anyone else.
Steph is also ahead. He matched Jokic's peak in terms of production, and he has more titles (even if we don't count the KD ones).
Production? I certainly think Steph's case is there due to his gravity and how he can make others better. I think he also had this strange ability to make everyone streaky shooting in a good way. But I'd be hard to argue he produced more on paper.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:53 pm
by AleksandarN
Jokic peak is not greater than Jordan or Lebron just stop it. If Jokic wins three chips in a roll then we can start to have a conversation but now it is a bit too much.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 12:54 pm
by bstein14
Last four years of Jokic is for sure better than any four year stretch of any player since Jordan. I think Lebron is great and is for sure a top 2 player of all-time but LeBron never had a four year stretch like Jokic just had.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 1:17 pm
by AleksandarN
bstein14 wrote:Last four years of Jokic is for sure better than any four year stretch of any player since Jordan. I think Lebron is great and is for sure a top 2 player of all-time but LeBron never had a four year stretch like Jokic just had.
Lebron was better even though Jokic had a greater control of the game on the offensive side Lebron had a better influence on the defensive side which separates him from Jokic.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 1:19 pm
by EmpireFalls
Why does Jokic have to be better than peak Shaq or LeBron exactly? Why can’t he just be an amazing player and appreciated for that?
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 1:29 pm
by dhsilv2
EmpireFalls wrote:Why does Jokic have to be better than peak Shaq or LeBron exactly? Why can’t he just be an amazing player and appreciated for that?
I think as humans we want to order, rank, sort, and put numbers to things. That said...why can't we treat athletes today like we used to? In Jordan's first game the announcer was calling him Captain Marvelous. Before playoff games we had these insane buildups talking up how great everyone was. Now we have to listen to never ending cycles of negativity. Maybe Harden wasn't THAT guy, but damn if he wasn't amazing to watch with/when his second option was Gordon and he was going toe to toe vs the warriors. Maybe Curry had some issues on defense and maybe he needed a few mid range tricks added to his bag...buy holy hell was he great.
Lets enjoy greatness by actually talking about it. Maybe we don't need to rank things, but we've never seen anything like Jokic. And sometimes it helps to try and quantify that.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 1:31 pm
by dhsilv2
AleksandarN wrote:bstein14 wrote:Last four years of Jokic is for sure better than any four year stretch of any player since Jordan. I think Lebron is great and is for sure a top 2 player of all-time but LeBron never had a four year stretch like Jokic just had.
Lebron was better even though Jokic had a greater control of the game on the offensive side Lebron had a better influence on the defensive side which separates him from Jokic.
I don't think that's true. Jokic at least in terms of influence (decision making, game calling, how the defense plays) is more impactful. Now you can argue Lebron at his Apex was better defensively. But those are different things.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 8:35 am
by Goose egg
40 pts
13 assists
0 turnovers
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:15 pm
by EmpireFalls
I still don’t think he’s THE best since Jordan but he’s undoubtedly on the shortlist now. It goes Shaq, maybe peak Duncan, Bron, Steph, Jokic in terms of guys who can make that case
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:41 pm
by chrismikayla
For people who question how good Larry Bird would be today, look no further than Jokic. Larry would also dominate with his shooting, rebounding, passing ability, and smarts.
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Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:56 pm
by art_tatum
The overreactions on both sides are crazy
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 4:45 am
by WentzerWuver
Goose egg wrote:I can understand putting Lebron ahead of either guy in your host rankings. Longevity matters, so does actual hardware.
But peak prime? Jokic is best player in league since Jordan. They are a tier above the next best “guys at their peak prime” (Lebron Giannis Shaq) and levels above the tier below that (Durant KG Steph).
I don’t even think it’s close. He controls the game like no one else since Jordan, whereas to me the guys the tier below never controlled every game, they were more akin to unstoppable freight trains that could take over a game. It’s the difference between these guys for me.
Lol Joker don't play defense which is why AD has a field day in the paint when being guarded by him. Lebron is the ONLY player that can dethrone MJ. The Joker is just a softy.
Closed thread for a ludicrous suggestion.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 5:19 am
by lessthanjake
I think there’s a pretty good argument for this.
Obviously, the player since Jordan that is the biggest competition for this is LeBron. LeBron has had a substantially better career than Jokic, and while Jokic is in the middle of his career, I very much doubt he will catch LeBron in terms of overall greatness, given that he got to a super elite level later and likely won’t keep playing as long. But in terms of who is the “best player,” I think there’s a good case that current Jokic is better than LeBron was (and frankly a case for that against peak Jordan too, though it’s harder to make the case for various reasons, including the relative lack of data for Jordan). I compiled available impact-data and impact-correlated box metrics for peak LeBron (2009-2013) and peak Jokic (2021 onwards) here:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=112905068#p112905068. It’s close, but I think Jokic looks a little better overall.
Re: Jokic is the best player since Jordan
Posted: Mon May 20, 2024 2:45 am
by 3toheadmelo
oh boy