2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 4: Who is the MVP?)

[f4p]

Read on Twitter

How the **** is Mitchell 5? Man should retire his lists suck ass.

Mitchell might be top 5 on the cavs.

[AleksandarN]

My source is an obscure site called basketball-reference.com, we are part of a conspiracy to make Jokic teammates look good.

Since this is a regular season award what are their stats during the regular season we after are judging the regular contributions arent we?

Jokic had carrer high 22 on/off in 23, this shrunk to 2 in PO, Murray had good but unspectacular 6 in RS, that jumped to 10.
Are you saying Jokic is GOAT RS player but terrible choker in the PO, or maybe on/off doesn't mean you really are the diffwrence between the on and the off?

Or maybe the Murray finally steps up in the postseason. He finally gets help. Speaking of the playoffs what is Jokic’s averages in the preseason? Isn’t majority of players stats go down in the preseason. Or are you saying Jokic is a playoff dropper?

[AleksandarN]

My source is an obscure site called basketball-reference.com, we are part of a conspiracy to make Jokic teammates look good.

Since this is a regular season award what are their stats during the regular season we after are judging the regular contributions arent we?

Jokic had carrer high 22 on/off in 23, this shrunk to 2 in PO, Murray had good but unspectacular 6 in RS, that jumped to 10.
Are you saying Jokic is GOAT RS player but terrible choker in the PO, or maybe on/off doesn't mean you really are the diffwrence between the on and the off?

Also here is Jokic playoff stats. Are you suggesting Jokic is a terrible choker in the playoffs. Please tell me you are not suggesting that. It is pretty asinine to even make that assertion.

Read on Twitter

[RRR3]

Now on/off doesn't matter

[Special_Puppy]

Now on/off doesn't matter

Problem with Playoff On/Off is that only like 10 players in the past 30 years have a big enough sample size to do serious analysis. If you want to get a hint on how players impact translate against stronger teams something that incorporates regular season data as well is probably needed https://www.nbarapm.com/datasets/strong

[AleksandarN]

In the 2 successful PO runs Jokic had
In 2020
Murray +10
MPJ +14
Jokic -3

2023
MPJ +3.5
Murray +10
Gordon +20
Jokic +2

Anyone who wants to "use his brain", use it in this while throwing these guys under the bus.

He had a plus 2 in 2023 playoffs? Where you get that?? jokic was a plus 169 in 23 playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-stats-plus-minus-on-and-off-court-2023-playoffs

Nikola Jokić had a plus/minus of +169 in the 2023 playoffs

[scrabbarista]

In the 2 successful PO runs Jokic had
In 2020
Murray +10
MPJ +14
Jokic -3

2023
MPJ +3.5
Murray +10
Gordon +20
Jokic +2

Anyone who wants to "use his brain", use it in this while throwing these guys under the bus.

He had a plus 2 in 2023 playoffs? Where you get that?? jokic was a plus 169 in 23 playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-stats-plus-minus-on-and-off-court-2023-playoffs

Nikola Jokić had a plus/minus of +169 in the 2023 playoffs

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

[Mavrelous]

In the 2 successful PO runs Jokic had
In 2020
Murray +10
MPJ +14
Jokic -3

2023
MPJ +3.5
Murray +10
Gordon +20
Jokic +2

Anyone who wants to "use his brain", use it in this while throwing these guys under the bus.

He had a plus 2 in 2023 playoffs? Where you get that?? jokic was a plus 169 in 23 playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-stats-plus-minus-on-and-off-court-2023-playoffs

Nikola Jokić had a plus/minus of +169 in the 2023 playoffs

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

Because the entire argument for Jokic is on/off based, when you bring his PO on/off immediately it shifts to the very arguments that are ignored in RS.

[scrabbarista]

He had a plus 2 in 2023 playoffs? Where you get that?? jokic was a plus 169 in 23 playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-stats-plus-minus-on-and-off-court-2023-playoffs

Nikola Jokić had a plus/minus of +169 in the 2023 playoffs

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

Because the entire argument for Jokic is on/off based, when you bring his PO on/off immediately it shifts to the very arguments that are ignored in RS.

29/13/10 on 58/41/81 is a total non-part of the argument?

Also, it's not an argument for Jokic. It's an argument for the MVP Award. The regular season MVP.

[Mavrelous]

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

Because the entire argument for Jokic is on/off based, when you bring his PO on/off immediately it shifts to the very arguments that are ignored in RS.

29/13/10 on 58/41/81 is a total non-part of the argument?

Also, it's not an argument for Jokic. It's an argument for the MVP Award. The regular season MVP.

It is part of the argument, it is not enough, these last few pages are of people bitching how Jokic is MVP because Murray and Gordon suck based on on/off.

[RB34]

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

Because the entire argument for Jokic is on/off based, when you bring his PO on/off immediately it shifts to the very arguments that are ignored in RS.

29/13/10 on 58/41/81 is a total non-part of the argument?

Also, it's not an argument for Jokic. It's an argument for the MVP Award. The regular season MVP.

Playoffs were an argument against Joker. They said they didn’t want to give another MVP to someone who hadn’t won a championship.

Then they give it to someone who has never made it out of the second round.

[Djoker]

[scrabbarista]

This is like the second day of the year I'd vote for SGA if it was today.

Basically, if Jokic plays, there's no one better. If he misses games, SGA has been great enough to squeeze past him.

I'm assuming if Jokic plays tomorrow, my vote will be back with him. We'll see.

[AleksandarN]

This is like the second day of the year I'd vote for SGA if it was today.

Basically, if Jokic plays, there's no one better. If he misses games, SGA has been great enough to squeeze past him.

I'm assuming if Jokic plays tomorrow, my vote will be back with him. We'll see.

He is not playing tomorrow. He is injured

[AleksandarN]

In the 2 successful PO runs Jokic had
In 2020
Murray +10
MPJ +14
Jokic -3

2023
MPJ +3.5
Murray +10
Gordon +20
Jokic +2

Anyone who wants to "use his brain", use it in this while throwing these guys under the bus.

He had a plus 2 in 2023 playoffs? Where you get that?? jokic was a plus 169 in 23 playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-stats-plus-minus-on-and-off-court-2023-playoffs

Nikola Jokić had a plus/minus of +169 in the 2023 playoffs

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

He was a pus a plus 169. Meaning he was over a plus 10 per game overall in the playoffs. So how was he a plus two

[Mrakar]

He had a plus 2 in 2023 playoffs? Where you get that?? jokic was a plus 169 in 23 playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-stats-plus-minus-on-and-off-court-2023-playoffs

Nikola Jokić had a plus/minus of +169 in the 2023 playoffs

He used On-Off.

Not sure why this is a topic in this thread, though.

He was a pus a plus 169. Meaning he was over a plus 10 per game overall in the playoffs. So how was he a plus two

He said he used on off which rough explained means if he was + 169 and the nuggets where +129 when he didnt play that means he is +40 and in 20 games that averages at +2. However i cant find a stat to back it up and he doesnt want to post the link. Everywhere i look i get other number.

BMP which is far more accurate of a stat has Jokic at 12.7 and next nugget in Murray at 4.7 (for refference, 10+ is all time great season and 0 is nba average.
Still would like to see that on off stat since that is where conversation started.

[Mavrelous]

Step 1: go basketball-reference.com
Step 2: type in the search bar name of the player, go to players page
Step 3: scroll down to play-by-play section, by default, it is on regular season, at the top the table you see the word play off , click on it and you see playoff on off

[AleksandarN]

Because the entire argument for Jokic is on/off based, when you bring his PO on/off immediately it shifts to the very arguments that are ignored in RS.

29/13/10 on 58/41/81 is a total non-part of the argument?

Also, it's not an argument for Jokic. It's an argument for the MVP Award. The regular season MVP.

It is part of the argument, it is not enough, these last few pages are of people bitching how Jokic is MVP because Murray and Gordon suck based on on/off.

In the regular season which the bloody mvp is based on. To ignore that is to ignore logic all together

[AleksandarN]

Step 1: go basketball-reference.com
Step 2: type in the search bar name of the player, go to players page
Step 3: scroll down to play-by-play section, by default, it is on regular season, at the top the table you see the word play off , click on it and you see playoff on off

Why playoffs when mvp is a regular season award that’s pretty disingenuous on your part

[Mavrelous]

29/13/10 on 58/41/81 is a total non-part of the argument?

Also, it's not an argument for Jokic. It's an argument for the MVP Award. The regular season MVP.

It is part of the argument, it is not enough, these last few pages are of people bitching how Jokic is MVP because Murray and Gordon suck based on on/off.

In the regular season which the bloody mvp is based on. To ignore that is to ignore logic all together

This is the last post I make in this thread becaise it's becoming cumbersome.
SGA is a deserving MVP, and Jokic has no case being 15 games behind, the only claim being thrown around is Jokic on/off.
It is claimed in this thread that the Nuggetd are 64 wins team with Jokic and 17 w/o him based on on/off data.
Historically, Nikola Jokic has absurd on/off in RS and pedstrian on/off in the PO, his on/off in RS is a derivative of rotations by Malone and the terrible bench the team has, namely, the lack of any playmaker other than Jokic or Murray, Jokic team is good enough, if it wasn't, the team wouldn't be better with him off the floor in 39 PO games in 20 and 23 the only 2 years Denver was able to advance in the PO.
Jokic is a great player, he isn't the only great player, others can and should win MVPs while he's playing, this isn't blasphemy.
People who have different MVP than Jokic actually know how to use their brains, contrary to what's claimed in this thread.