All Star Reserves

[Doctor MJ]

Well they are an overachieving TEAM, not a poor team being dragged from the bottom by Brandon Roy. He's playing solid ball, but he isn't carrying some bottom feeder.

Exactly. The Blazers do as well with Roy off the court as with him on it. That's not how a guy "carrying" his team does things. Roy's nice, Baron's a top 10 player in the game right now.

[crzy]

I like to give a shout-out to Blazers marketing. These things did their job.

[Mike Hunt]

I would have selected Kaman over just about any big man in the league (except Dwight Howard). He's top 3 in two major categories (rebounds and blocks) and is managing 18ppg while playing a weak position. He's Camby with offense right now stats-wise (though he doesn't have the defensive reputation ye)t. I think he's a bigger snub if you consider him with relation to West than Baron is relative to Roy.

The Clippers suck but not having Kaman in the all-star game is still a mistake.

[KingDave]

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The Blazers do as well with Roy off the court as with him on it. That's not how a guy "carrying" his team does things. Roy's nice, Baron's a top 10 player in the game right now.

So your saying the Blazers without Roy would still be 26-19 and 1.5 games behind the division leader?

[Effigy]

Fans who act like they know more than coaches crack me up. I thought Roy had a good chance to get in because he plays the kind of selfless give the body up type of basketball that coaches love. Baron Davis is perceived as being selfish, and I think the coaches ask themselves who would I rather have on my team? Not a knock against Baron, he's very good but I think his reputation hurts him. Also he's b een campaigning all year to get in. When Portland beat the Warriors earlier this year he was upset that he didn't play in the 4th quarter and couldn't improve his stats to help make the all star game. That's not the kind of player I want.

[sabi]

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Exactly. The Blazers do as well with Roy off the court as with him on it. That's not how a guy "carrying" his team does things. Roy's nice, Baron's a top 10 player in the game right now.

wow. that's some crazy stuff

[KingDave]

Well they are an overachieving TEAM, not a poor team being dragged from the bottom by Brandon Roy. He's playing solid ball, but he isn't carrying some bottom feeder.

Are you serious?? They were 5-12 to start the season and looked very much like a "bottom feeder" team. Nobody would have blamed them too because Greg Oden was out for the season and there were no expectations..

Brandon isnt playing solid ball, he's playing GREAT ball...Don't try to downplay Brandon's achievement's because Baron was snubbed..

[crzy]

Fans who act like they know more than coaches crack me up. I thought Roy had a good chance to get in because he plays the kind of selfless give the body up type of basketball that coaches love. Baron Davis is perceived as being selfish, and I think the coaches ask themselves who would I rather have on my team? Not a knock against Baron, he's very good but I think his reputation hurts him. Also he's b een campaigning all year to get in. When Portland beat the Warriors earlier this year he was upset that he didn't play in the 4th quarter and couldn't improve his stats to help make the all star game. That's not the kind of player I want.

I agree with most of your points. Brandon Roy got in because he has a clean image and is selfless with a great reputation. Not because he is a better player than Baron Davis, because he isn't (at least not at this moment). And that's what's so frustrating.

[Effigy]

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I agree with most of your points. Brandon Roy got in because he has a clean image and is selfless with a great reputation. Not because he is a better player than Baron Davis, because he isn't (at least not at this moment). And that's what's so frustrating.

I can agree with that.

Anyway, I echo the sentiment of Mr. Odd. Baron will play even better down the stretch to prove he should have gotten in, and the Warriors will make the playoffs. I do feel bad for Warrior fans, because you've gone like 13 years without an all-star. It's been a while for Portland too, 8 years, so I feel your pain.

[KingDave]

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I agree with most of your points. Brandon Roy got in because he has a clean image and is selfless with a great reputation. Not because he is a better player than Baron Davis, because he isn't (at least not at this moment). And that's what's so frustrating.

So Roy being an absolute stud had nothing to do with his All-Star selection?

Sure, Roy's image and style of play helped but it wouldn't have made a difference if he wasn't a great ball player...Both Roy and Baron deserved to make the team, the coaches just liked Roy more.

[Effigy]

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So Roy being an absolute stud had nothing to do with his All-Star selection?

Sure, Roy's image and style of play helped but it wouldn't have made a difference if he wasn't a great ball player...Both Roy and Baron deserved to make the team, the coaches just liked Roy more.

Well he didn't say Roy isn't an absolute stud. He says he thinks Baron's better at this stage of their career. And as a one on one player, I can agree with that. But Roy has a lot of intangibles that helped him.

[KingDave]

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Well he didn't say Roy isn't an absolute stud. He says he thinks Baron's better at this stage of their career. And as a one on one player, I can agree with that. But Roy has a lot of intangibles that helped him.

It's all opinion, maybe the coaches think Roy is the superior player and leader..

The problem I have is with posters trying to downplay Roy to make Baron look better...

[Fitz303]

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I agree with most of your points. Brandon Roy got in because he has a clean image and is selfless with a great reputation. Not because he is a better player than Baron Davis, because he isn't (at least not at this moment). And that's what's so frustrating.

Thats a big part of being a good player. Thats a part of making your TEAM better. He doesnt shoot his team out of games if hes not hitting his 3s, because he will stop shooting them. He does what is necessary for the team to win, which isnt always scoring points. I love Baron Davis, but to slight Roy because he has 3 less points (although he shoots 2 less shots per game) and 2.5 less assists (although with 1 less turnover) is just ridiculous.

[crzy]

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Thats a big part of being a good player. Thats a part of making your TEAM better. He doesnt shoot his team out of games if hes not hitting his 3s, because he will stop shooting them. He does what is necessary for the team to win, which isnt always scoring points. I love Baron Davis, but to slight Roy because he has 3 less points (although he shoots 2 less shots per game) and 2.5 less assists (although with 1 less turnover) is just ridiculous.

I think you've misunderstood me.

I was simply commenting on the public perception of Brandon Roy versus that of Baron Davis.

I should have gone on to note that much of the negative stigma surrounding Baron Davis is invalid and unfair. Baron Davis does make his teammates better. Baron Davis is the leader of the Warriors. He plays through pain, through injury. He has tons of clutch performances to win games in the fourth quarter. All those intangibles and character that you list to describe Brandon Roy are NOT exclusive to Brandon Roy.

The only reason I harp so much on the statistical argument, is because I honestly believe they are EQUAL in everything else.

It's impossible to quantitatively measure how much a player "impacts" their team. But both Baron Davis and Brandon Roy are the leaders of their respective squads, and have them both in playoff contention. So they are dead even on that front, in my book.

Now if you go further to delve into statistics, you'll see that Baron is superior in nearly every category. And therefore, Baron Davis should be in the All-Star game over Brandon Roy.

[KingDave]

Also, why is everyone pitting Baron against Roy?

West along with Roy were the wilcard picks..Which means the coaches can pick any 2 players regardless of position..

If anything, this should be a Baron vs West argument in which Baron would win easily..

West is a good player but he's the 3rd most important player on the Hornets.

[Ballings7]

I would of had it differently in a few spots, but everybody who was selected is deserving.

I basically had the East right. I just had a tie between Hedo and Joe Johnson for the last wild card.

Especially great to see both Roy and West make it (who I didn't think would make it). Surprised about Camby and Howard, but then again, other guys still deserve it, too.

[crzy]

Also, why is everyone pitting Baron against Roy?

West along with Roy were the wilcard picks..Which means the coaches can pick any 2 players regardless of position..

If anything, this should be a Baron vs West argument in which Baron would win easily..

West is a good player but he's the 3rd most important player on the Hornets.

I also have a problem with the West selection. The Wildcard picks should have been Camby and Baron, IMO. The reason Baron is being pitted against Roy is because they are both guards.

[NO-KG-AI]

West is EASILY our second best player, you would know that if like, you knew basketball.

[tranjSAIC]

Per game numbers:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
johnson,joe  21.7  4.3  5.5  0.9  0.1 .585 .463 .517 16.5
turkoglu,hed 19.3  6.0  4.2  1.1  0.4 .804 .503 .557 16.9

Pace-adjusted per-40 numbers:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
johnson,joe  21.6  4.2  5.5  0.9  0.1 .571 .463 .517 16.5
turkoglu,hed 19.9  6.2  4.4  1.1  0.4 .900 .503 .557 16.9

Their numbers are pretty even overall. Turk shoots a higher percentage, but he benefits from Howard and Lewis drawing the defensive attention. Johnson scores more as the first option in the offense.

I personally give a little more credence to team record, so I'd go with Turkaglu. But I don't think it would be such a travesty to send Johnson. Atlanta was a .500 ball club a couple of weeks ago. So it's basically a choice between sending the best player on a near-.500 club over the 2nd best player (a distant second best at that) on a .600 ball club.

The problem I have is, he hasn't been clutch and his team has a losing record. I could understand if they had a winning record at least, but his play this year has been pretty bad. Even most Hawks fans will agree he doesn't deserve a spot. If anyone on the Hawks should have gone it would be Smith.

[tranjSAIC]

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Calderon's numbers blow both of those guys out of the water...

Do you mean his 12 points he is averaging for THE SEASON? or are you taking about the month span he has been starting... LOL