Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers

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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#481 » by Blame Rasho » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:22 am

Phil XI wrote:First off, a players salary means nothing to me. In fact, I am only arguing this position because their a salary cap discussion that is really at heart here now how much money people I don't know make.

And I am not bragging about his contract.... at all. It is what it is. As far as a better shot at the title.. that has not been determined yet.


A question for you... do you think that KG's contract when he was a Timberwolf played a part into why he had limited postseason success?

Just for a frame of reference... in 02/03 KG made 25.2 Million(the MAX allowed per the CBA due to when he came into the NBA and caused the lockout no less) and TD made (12.1 max allowed for his years in NBA). It might be one of the hidden blessings that the Spurs had over the years that no one acknowledges over the years. The Spurs could put more pieces around Duncan than the Wolves could for KG because of the difference in salaries. And let us remember that these were two players in their respective primes.... not an aging superstar.

Why is this a hard concept to understand? It doesn't need to be determined. It needs to be acknowledged. It will be harder for the Lakers to have the pieces around Kobe if he takes such a big part of their respective cap. If you think differently great... most of us think it is a bit silly to think so.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#482 » by Bruh Man » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:34 am

Blame Rasho wrote:
Phil XI wrote:First off, a players salary means nothing to me. In fact, I am only arguing this position because their a salary cap discussion that is really at heart here now how much money people I don't know make.

And I am not bragging about his contract.... at all. It is what it is. As far as a better shot at the title.. that has not been determined yet.


A question for you... do you think that KG's contract when he was a Timberwolf played a part into why he had limited postseason success?

Just for a frame of reference... in 02/03 KG made 25.2 Million(the MAX allowed per the CBA due to when he came into the NBA and caused the lockout no less) and TD made (12.1 max allowed for his years in NBA). It might be one of the hidden blessings that the Spurs had over the years that no one acknowledges over the years. The Spurs could put more pieces around Duncan than the Wolves could for KG because of the difference in salaries. And let us remember that these were two players in their respective primes.... not an aging superstar.

Why is this a hard concept to understand? It doesn't need to be determined. It needs to be acknowledged. It will be harder for the Lakers to have the pieces around Kobe if he takes such a big part of their respective cap. If you think differently great... most of us think it is a bit silly to think so.

It has more to do with management and coaching which is light years apart when talking about the Spurs and Timberwolves, also the fact that Duncan is a better player than KG. Serious question, how often does the team with the highest player salaries win the title?
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#483 » by LLcoleJ » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:36 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Again, if the Lakers are making decisions for non-basketball reasons, then that's not good for the basketball. 'sall I'm saying.


And 'sall I am saying is the Lakers make moves for basketball reasons because as you know financially decisions and basketball decisions are one in the same for the Lakers. If you disagree then thats ok.


Like what though? And don't just say "We can't possibly know." I get it, we can't know all that's going on, but can you at least give a plausible thing that could happen here?


Again. The Agents mention was part of the entire " business model' that you or I are not privy too. We don't strike deals with major media outlets for billions of dollars, we don't give contracts to employees for 50 millon, we don't talk to agents we are not in the trenches of this business.

Simply--- You and I can agree or disagree that with all that ^^^ really ^^^ important stuff I mentioned above that the Lakers FO has a plan. Clearly you disagree and that is fine. I am sorry I cannot offer you more than that.

In the end, I just don't see that many types of possibilities. If you're acquiring a star, it's either because the star wants to come to you, or the team he's on decides they're better off giving them to you.And in the case of the latter, that seems clearly to be a case of something that just comes up. Maybe something like that is happening as we speak on some team sure, but the odds of that are very remote.


Fair enough. . Player movement in the NBA to me always seems fluid. Every year teams change and with the new CBA teams have to learn how to change differently. Some are motivated by other factors outside of basketball and those that are motivated to win find ways to get players.

Who knows though I am still a Laker fan if they they suck.



Similarly, odds are very remote that a future free agent has basically given a guarantee.


I have no idea where this came from.

Want to take issue that I post on a message board only having very-likely understanding of what's going on? Okay, but them's some high standards for the innernetz.

If they pull of a big deal tomorrow, I'll eat crow and give praise unto teh Busses, but in the mean time, I'm going to go with how it looks.


And now this got weird.

Eminently reasonable that. The context of the thread pits us against one another and makes us speak with a vehemence that sometimes lacks courtesy. I apologize if I'm being a jerk.


haha.. it's all good.


Totally sympathy. Lakers got so screwed over by Stern on the Paul deal.

Trust? In the sense that I'm not going to say they have bad management, certainly. In the sense that I'm going to assume that every move they make is a good one? Nah.

I too was upset we didn't get Paul. I love that guy. But it happened. It's not the Lakers are not on the other end of those deals alot. And again, I am not asking you to trust them. Clearly you don't

My position....I trust them right now and until I feel they are not making basketball decisions we can certainly disagree.



Fair enough. I readily concede that there's a slight possibility that all would make sense basketball-wise if I just knew what they knew, but I think the explanation here of "more info" really just means they were afraid of things that as a fan I don't have to be afraid of. It makes their choice understandable, but not necessarily wiser.


If it's the right move or not is yet to be seen. I think we can both agree on that. But at the end of the day the team needs to be healthy financially to make the moves we ultimately want them to make.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#484 » by Yoshun » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:37 am

Good for Kobe, the guy can still play. As far as what it does for the Lakers, they make a TON of money off of Kobe, it's pretty obvious why they don't want him to leave.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#485 » by DayofMourning » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:40 am

Kobe deserves it. He'll most likely make 1st team all nba and 1st all defense next year at the age of 36. Who can do that? Nobody else has that kind of talent. As long as he's on the Lakers they will compete for a championship every year.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#486 » by LLcoleJ » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:43 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
See this is where I run into such frustration. People will forever think that Kobe's rings will justify his behavior, when the only reason he has 5 rings is because a lot of lucky things went his way. Not the least of which, having a superior teammate lead him to the majority of those rings.


And this is where my frustration comes in. You infuse player comparison Doc MJ to these discussions. I am not here to support/bash/justify another mans behavior nor do I want to get into yet another Kobe is not like Tim or played with Shaq to their ... puke.

I fully understand your position with Kobe. I am not here to change your mind. But the reliaty if Kobe is now going to be on the the Lakers for the next 3 years. So now we will see what the Lakers org. is really about. Do they have a plan? or are they " dupping" everyone? lets find out.

C'mon man, all things equal, a player giving his organization more room to work with is a good thing. Why is that so hard to agree on?
Things are not equal.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#487 » by DRK » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:43 am

DayofMourning wrote:Kobe deserves it. He'll most likely make 1st team all nba and 1st all defense next year at the age of 36. Who can do that? Nobody else has that kind of talent. As long as he's on the Lakers they will compete for a championship every year.


I really hope you're joking. Apologies, maybe my sarcasm radar hasnt been fine-tuned yet.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#488 » by LLcoleJ » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:44 am

Blame Rasho wrote:
Phil XI wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Every ring Duncan has ever won he's done making less money than Kobe will be making in his 20th year in the NBA. Think about that for a second, and then ponder that Kobe's not getting anywhere with the Lakers without the Lakers acquiring guys who cost serious money.
Well good for Tim. He has less rings and less money. But he has won the hearts and minds of everyone!


This is a bad post...


Oh relax....you know it was jokes. Unless you see a comparison between anything close to Kobe and Duncan?
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#489 » by Blame Rasho » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:45 am

You can mention draft picks as well... but at the very core of it the Wolves had less to work with than the Spurs because of the cap hit. It is over 12 million dollars that can be reallocated to other players and needs.

Do I think that Duncan was better than KG.. yeah... I would even say marginally. I would be the first to tell you that KG sometimes had better years than Duncan(gasp!!!) but that really doesn't mean that much to this discussion does it?

To the other question, there really isn't a correlation between winning a championship and having the highest player salaries. You can thank teams like Portland, Knicks, Mavs for several years, and etc for that trend. What is important is having flexibility to make trades and sign players, not paying the lux tax which is even worse for repeat offenders, and lastly being able to not hamstring your team for years on end because of one bad contract.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#490 » by MisterWestside » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:46 am

Bruh Man wrote:Serious question, how often does the team with the highest player salaries win the title?


Oh, a bunch. But the logic fails.

"Teams with the highest salaries win the most titles; my team has the highest salary, therefore we will win the title" is a lesson in causation.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#491 » by LLcoleJ » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:48 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
Phil XI wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Now you're just being argumentative.

If the ball had bounced slightly differently last year, Duncan would have another ring right now.


haha now I am argumentative? man no love.......but wait I took less money to post here as opposed to other forums . doesn't that buy me anything?

I wasn't actually discussing some of the talking points that are flying around? Well how about this... if the ball bounced slightly differnetly than last year.. would Lebron James be the Lebron James we talk about so fondly today? I mean he took a pay cut and would have had a 1-3 finals record.


Eh, that's not actually a rebuttal.

The point is that there is luck involved in this game and that you can't judge whether or not a decision made sense simply because one particular ball went in or bounced out. As such when we speak of people talking "so fondly" of LeBron only because of the lack, it goes without saying that I think those people are misguided.


Really you are going to pull out a what if scenario in this discussion and I reply and I am argumentative. You brought up the ball bounce the other way and Duncan wins comment to some how relate it to him mapping out the blue print for success. There are a lot of blue prints for success in this league.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#492 » by Jonatton Yeah » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:49 am

I can understand where the Lakers' fans are coming from. It's their team. Kobe is their dude. They, correct or not, feel there's a target on their back so they react (or lash out) accordingly (?) to something as divisive as this contract extension.

I would just say that it's okay to be a Laker fan (and a Kobe fan) and question this extension. As a caveat, I am neither.

Kobe is being paid as the best player in the league when he is not. His team is not very good. He has yet to play a game after a difficult injury. Even when he is very good, it's on one side of the court; something I don't think anyone can argue with.

It comes across like a PR move to keep those expensive seats filled. The fact is, most real Laker fans can't afford those seats, that parking, and those stadium beers. I just believe this signing was for those who can despite it being a hit on the quality of the game on the court. Any reasonable projection will paint this team as a non-contender. Sure, nobody can predict the future; but reasonable expectations should be listened to. Kobe, for all his greatness, will probably end up going out with a whimper (well, sans wallet). Maybe that sets them up better for the future. Sure. Maybe. But do you really think that's what's in Kobe's mind/ego?
That's hilarious and co
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#493 » by LLcoleJ » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:51 am

Free Rider wrote:
Phil XI wrote:Boom you nailed it. So, tell me guy with Google. Lakers should have renounced Kobe and all of their cap holds to sign 2 FAs? Who Lebron ? Sweet. Then what? Talk to Melo ? yeah budddy.
Should the team completely purge everyone and hope to get back in 5 years from now? What plan are you proposing? get on google and get back to me.


Do you really see no middle ground between renouncing Kobe and paying him ~$24 mil per year in his late 30s following an Achilles injury. Do you believe the only two alternatives are getting a Lebron/Melo type duo or giving Kobe $48 million? I agree that the free agent landscape wasn't all too promising but surely that doesn't automatically mean that you just throw whatever you can at Kobe.


I think they signed 1 of their 2 max contracts for the summer. If they do not get the second ( or the first) they are still in the same situation.I don't believe the Lakers are ready to let every one go and hope their team can build through the draft for the next 5 years.That's just not them.
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#494 » by Bruteque » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:51 am

I guess the Achilles injury made Kobe reconsider his stance on not taking a paycut.

$30.5 mil -> $23.5 mil

Looks like a $7 mil paycut to me. Good job, Mitch. Enjoy your year-end bonus.

The Lakers always were going to keep their cash cow no matter what the cost: Dwight Howard, $66.5 mil/2 years, their children's immortal souls, and whatever else was required to get the job done. Excellent work, Mitch, for limiting the damage to just Dwight Howard and $48.5 mil/2 years.

:lol:
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#495 » by Kilroy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:53 am

Why are we comparing Kobe to Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan to KG? Why are we comparing the 90's to 2013?

I think Kobe got paid too much... But I'm not willing to call it a bad deal or tangible proof that the Lakers FO is inept and the Lakers are done as a contending franchise...

Who's to say someone like perhaps Mark Cuban, wouldn't have offered Kobe that much in Free Agency anyway just to **** with the Lakers... It'd be a win-win for him, especially if Kobe can still play...
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#496 » by LLcoleJ » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:54 am


Huh?


I don't care how much money people make?


I just proved this a couple pages back using simple logic. Go back and read it.
you have proved I bragged about Kobe's contract?
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#497 » by Jugs » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:57 am

way way way too much money. looks like the next 2 seasons will be his farewell tour and not championship contention
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#498 » by Kilroy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:59 am

Jugs wrote:way way way too much money. looks like the next 2 seasons will be his farewell tour and not championship contention


Yes, but that was always the overwhelming probability...
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#499 » by Maluco Beleza » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:00 am

lakers will miss the playoffs
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Re: Kobe agrees to contact extension with Lakers 

Post#500 » by Ayt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:01 am

Blame Rasho wrote:
Phil XI wrote:First off, a players salary means nothing to me. In fact, I am only arguing this position because their a salary cap discussion that is really at heart here now how much money people I don't know make.

And I am not bragging about his contract.... at all. It is what it is. As far as a better shot at the title.. that has not been determined yet.


A question for you... do you think that KG's contract when he was a Timberwolf played a part into why he had limited postseason success?

Just for a frame of reference... in 02/03 KG made 25.2 Million(the MAX allowed per the CBA due to when he came into the NBA and caused the lockout no less) and TD made (12.1 max allowed for his years in NBA). It might be one of the hidden blessings that the Spurs had over the years that no one acknowledges over the years. The Spurs could put more pieces around Duncan than the Wolves could for KG because of the difference in salaries. And let us remember that these were two players in their respective primes.... not an aging superstar.

Why is this a hard concept to understand? It doesn't need to be determined. It needs to be acknowledged. It will be harder for the Lakers to have the pieces around Kobe if he takes such a big part of their respective cap. If you think differently great... most of us think it is a bit silly to think so.


That is being kind. It is illogical nonsense.

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