MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[RB34]

Not going to go through all the quotes but it’s amazing that as soon as you play with LeBron you become garbage and need to be carried................

[DutchManDanFan]

Did it reach a point it could be unanimous?

[The Lazy Potato]

Ouch 1-17 from 3...
Giannis had a bad game as well, but he still got away with 28-14-10-1-1 (and 8 to’s)...

The point is that Giannis even when he is having a bad game on the offensive side of the floor he is still impacting the game very big on defense. And that's why the elite 2-way players are the best. Because when Luka or Harden having a bad game on offense they are pretty much useless in the game..

[scrabbarista]

Did it reach a point it could be unanimous?

I'm thinking definitely not, with LeBron having the season he's having. Not yet, anyway. Still a long way to go.

[mademan]

Not going to go through all the quotes but it’s amazing that as soon as you play with LeBron you become garbage and need to be carried................

i mean, besides AD, were any of these guys not garbage pre-Lebron? Dwight/Rondo signed minimum contracts cause literally no body would offer them more. KCP has been alright, but every body thought he was garbage too. Bradley has been pretty awful for a few years...etc. Who exactly had a good reputation on this Lakers team pre Lebron that is now seen to suck?

Youre legit talking out of ur azz on this.

[The Lazy Potato]

Not going to go through all the quotes but it’s amazing that as soon as you play with LeBron you become garbage and need to be carried................

i mean, besides AD, were any of these guys not garbage pre-Lebron? Dwight/Rondo signed minimum contracts cause literally no body would offer them more. KCP has been alright, but every body thought he was garbage too. Bradley has been pretty awful for a few years...etc. Who exactly had a good reputation on this Lakers team pre Lebron that is now seen to suck?

Youre legit talking out of ur azz on this.

Are you serious now man? Is Rondo a bad player? really now? have you seen him how great he is playing in the playoffs every time? they also have AD, Kuzma and D. Green. are these guys trash? or maybe is Caldwell-Pope trash? even Dwight is playing very solid. I don't know what you are smoking but you should cut it. The lakers have one of the best teams in the league right now and if you can't see it i don't know what to say....

[Archx]

Ouch 1-17 from 3...
Giannis had a bad game as well, but he still got away with 28-14-10-1-1 (and 8 to’s)...

The point is that Giannis even when he is having a bad game on the offensive side of the floor he is still impacting the game very big on defense. And that's why the elite 2-way players are the best. Because when Luka or Harden having a bad game on offense they are pretty much useless in the game..

Well Luka did have some bad games on offense this season but he can or did still impact the game with his play making ability. For example very recently vs Kings. Sure he had 25 pts but also had 6 TO's and it didn't feel like he was shooting that good overall 8/18. But had 17 assists and 15 rebounds. So there is more to his offensive game than just scoring. Obviously he is not a lock down defender but that was or will never be his job anyway.

Harden on the other hand is much more scarier. He can win games on his own but often he also shots them out of the game completely and everyone else in the process suffer as well. The fact that one can adapt his game and still will his team to a win with other tools i think that makes Luka more scarier and valuable than Harden.

But don't get me wrong, i'm not arguing that either one of those two should be compared or even be ahead of Giannis. To me so far, Giannis is the MVP.

[Yank3525]

Giannis reminds me a bit of LeBron in 2009 and 2010. Where the MVP race is kind of close for a couple of months, then by mid-January it is kind of funny we actually thought it was a debate.

[The Lazy Potato]

Ouch 1-17 from 3...
Giannis had a bad game as well, but he still got away with 28-14-10-1-1 (and 8 to’s)...

The point is that Giannis even when he is having a bad game on the offensive side of the floor he is still impacting the game very big on defense. And that's why the elite 2-way players are the best. Because when Luka or Harden having a bad game on offense they are pretty much useless in the game..

Well Luka did have some bad games on offense this season but he can or did still impact the game with his play making ability. For example very recently vs Kings. Sure he had 25 pts but also had 6 TO's and it didn't feel like he was shooting that good overall 8/18. But had 17 assists and 15 rebounds. So there is more to his offensive game than just scoring. Obviously he is not a lock down defender but that was or will never be his job anyway.

Harden on the other hand is much more scarier. He can win games on his own but often he also shots them out of the game completely and everyone else in the process suffer as well. The fact that one can adapt his game and still will his team to a win with other tools i think that makes Luka more scarier and valuable than Harden.

But don't get me wrong, i'm not arguing that either one of those two should be compared or even be ahead of Giannis. To me so far, Giannis is the MVP.

Defense is still the half and equal part of the game, you can't just like that ignore it. Luka as great as he is when he is having a bad shooting night just because he could give you some assists doesn't count the same as someone who can impacting the game both ends of the floor. But for sure Luka is a team player, he is making his teamates better, Harden for sure not.

[mademan]

Not going to go through all the quotes but it’s amazing that as soon as you play with LeBron you become garbage and need to be carried................

i mean, besides AD, were any of these guys not garbage pre-Lebron? Dwight/Rondo signed minimum contracts cause literally no body would offer them more. KCP has been alright, but every body thought he was garbage too. Bradley has been pretty awful for a few years...etc. Who exactly had a good reputation on this Lakers team pre Lebron that is now seen to suck?

Youre legit talking out of ur azz on this.

Are you serious now man? Is Rondo a bad player? really now? have you seen him how great he is playing in the playoffs every time? they also have AD, Kuzma and D. Green. are these guys trash? or maybe is Caldwell-Pope trash? even Dwight is playing very solid. I don't know what you are smoking but you should cut it. The lakers have one of the best teams in the league right now and if you can't see it i don't know what to say....

By literally every measure Rondo has been a terrible player for years now. Green, to me, is one of the best role players in the league and KCP has been shooting well this year. Dwight has also been one of the best, if not the best, backup C's.

Again, they have Lebron, AD, Green and Dwight as 4 really good players and you can maybe add KCP, who's been trash for a few years now but has been surprisingly good this year. Kuz is **** and the rest of their team includes guys like Cook, bradley and daniel who suck at ball.

Really dont know what your smoking bruh. There's a reason all those guys got paid almost nothing in the offseason. Also a reason why the Bucks are ridiculous when Giannis sits and the Lakers are just ok when Lebron does. The supporting casts arent comparable for the RS, which is my larger point, as by every measure the Bucks cast has been much, much better than anyone else's in this league.


Legit cant believe you started the post with rondo being a good player. How many guards who cant shoot and cant defend are good? lol

[NY 567]

1A/1B Giannis/LeBron
2. Doncic
3. Jokic
4. Butler
5. CP3

Honorable mentions: Harden, Gobert, Embiid, Davis

[TOStateofMind]

Its not even much of a race anymore. At this point its who can have a hot couple weeks so we pretend to put them in the convo with giannis.

[SeniorWalker]

1A/1B Giannis/LeBron
2. Doncic
3. Jokic
4. Butler
5. CP3

Honorable mentions: Harden, Gobert, Embiid, Davis

How is LeBron 1B with Giannis, when Giannis is having a clearly superior statistical season on both ends of the floor and a better team record, not to mention doesnt have an AD who contributes arguably as much as he does?

[DutchManDanFan]

Did it reach a point it could be unanimous?

I'm thinking definitely not, with LeBron having the season he's having. Not yet, anyway. Still a long way to go.

I think LeBron went for it a while but realises it’s out of reach and/or too hard to keep up with Giannis, so it’s better to start thinking about the post season and be prepared for a long run.

[scrabbarista]

Pretty silly how the No Dunks crew said Harden has been permanently eliminated from MVP contention with his recent spate of poor games. I wonder how many others are as biased. Reminder, Harden is still:

1st in WS
1st (tie) in VORP
1st in RAPTOR Wins Above Replacement
2nd in RPM WINS
2nd (tie) in PER
2nd in PIPM Wins Added

That's all of the major mainstream advanced metrics. I'm fully with Antetokounmpo as the MVP right now, but to say Harden has been eliminated is objectively stupid.

[Patches Perry]

Man I'd love to see LeBron win 1 more MVP to match MJ, and 25/11/8 on a team on pace for 65 wins should do it, but Giannis can't be denied at this point.

Harden's recent struggles coupled with Rockets losses will make it tough for him. They already have 16 losses, which may be more than Milwaukee loses the entire season. Without a team record in the ballpark, it's almost immediate dismissal from the conversation.

[Profound23]

Did it reach a point it could be unanimous?

I'm thinking definitely not, with LeBron having the season he's having. Not yet, anyway. Still a long way to go.

Lebron, Luka, and Harden will end up with at least one vote barring injury(s)...Kawhi might get one too

[ken6199]

There is still half of the season left so anything can happen. Still somewhat a chance for LeBron, a small chance for Luka, a very remote chance for Harden. A recent bad stretch can happen, but we've all know those guys can put up an insanely good stretch and make themselves relevant again. Even not to win it, but certainly create enough noise to swing some 1st place votes.

To also remind you, whatever happens in the 2nd part of the season always carries a bigger weight. Especially those March April national televised "statement" games with seeding at stake (particularly in the West) you just know the voters will have their eyes fixed on those games as opposed to say, some game back in November.

I can totally see a chance that Giannis did all those great work for half a season to have a comfortable lead, then LeBron has a mind blowing 3 week stretch where he goes otherworldly ham, you know the voters will be like, yeah Giannis has been great (or a word Bucks can will be afraid to hear: consistent), but look at what LeBron is doing. The guy is averaging 35mpg in his 17th season blah blah blah...

Talking about unanimous at the half of the season is just weird, especially when there is another team only a couple of games back leading a tougher conference and that guys name is LeBron. I don't remember we talk like that about Curry back in 2016.

Playing in the East also has a problem. In March and April Giannis won't have many chance beating "MVP level opponents" in big games. Boston is by committee, Philly is in a funk, Butler was never seem as a serious MVP candidate. All major MVP candidates are out in the West where it one of them beat a few others in head-2-head, they will gather lot of media momentum. Media loves those heavy weight duals. Now even Paul is somewhat in the mix, and if you beat Utah they will be saying "xxx just broke a defense led by DPOY candidate". You have one all star beating another two, one former MVP beating another FMVP. U don't get that in the East. There are just too much talent in the West where a MVP candidate can beat the others and make their wins look more worthy to the media. I say that's Giannis disadvantage unfortunately. But as long as he stack up those wins and playing at this level, nobody is taking it away from him.

[Dupp]

Not going to go through all the quotes but it’s amazing that as soon as you play with LeBron you become garbage and need to be carried................

i mean, besides AD, were any of these guys not garbage pre-Lebron? Dwight/Rondo signed minimum contracts cause literally no body would offer them more. KCP has been alright, but every body thought he was garbage too. Bradley has been pretty awful for a few years...etc. Who exactly had a good reputation on this Lakers team pre Lebron that is now seen to suck?

Youre legit talking out of ur azz on this.

Are you serious now man? Is Rondo a bad player? really now? have you seen him how great he is playing in the playoffs every time? they also have AD, Kuzma and D. Green. are these guys trash? or maybe is Caldwell-Pope trash? even Dwight is playing very solid. I don't know what you are smoking but you should cut it. The lakers have one of the best teams in the league right now and if you can't see it i don't know what to say....

Is rondo a bad player? No. He’s terrible. It’s not 2010. The rest of the team is good though.

[Young gun 6]

Basically down to the following:

If Milwaukee win 65+ games and finish with the best record in the league and Giannis play is similar to current output whilst playing 70+ games, there is no way anyone else in the league can win.

If some of that above doesn’t happen, then Doncic, Lebron and others enter the conversation to even be looked at.

As it stands the first is likely to all occur and thus there will be zero debate as to the MVP winner. As the games go on it gets further and further likely that Giannis will be the clear MVP.

If the season ended right now, it would be Giannis by a long way. He and Milwaukee would have to falter massively for him to not win it from here.

I personally think only a major injury to Giannis could take the MVP away from him.