Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

otwok
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,320
And1: 2,328
Joined: May 19, 2010

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#481 » by otwok » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:39 pm

TunaFish wrote:
Bottomsouth wrote:
TunaFish wrote:
They have a test for death?


To confirmed from the virus, yes.


So you are saying that we didn't have a test for Covid-19 two months ago? And if a person dies with all the symptoms but hasn't had the test they shouldn't be counted?


I'm not defending anyone or anything but what I read from his quote was two or three months ago, if someone died and they had heart issues, or died of pneumonia, cancer or any other cause they would be marked down as dying from that cause because there really wasn't a testing mechanism widespread. Today, if someone dies and has any of the above (or more causes) but tested positive of Covid-19 they would be marked as a death from Covid-19. That's my understanding.
Bottomsouth
Pro Prospect
Posts: 939
And1: 268
Joined: Mar 15, 2016

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#482 » by Bottomsouth » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:47 pm

TunaFish wrote:
Bottomsouth wrote:
TunaFish wrote:
They have a test for death?


To confirmed from the virus, yes.


So you are saying that we didn't have a test for Covid-19 two months ago? And if a person dies with all the symptoms but hasn't had the test they shouldn't be counted?


Yes. What? You are going off course.
13th Man
General Manager
Posts: 8,936
And1: 6,118
Joined: Feb 12, 2012
 

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#483 » by 13th Man » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:03 pm

Jogger social distances himself from cop, lol.

HotRocks34
RealGM
Posts: 17,198
And1: 21,129
Joined: Jun 23, 2007

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#484 » by HotRocks34 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:04 pm

As far as varied death counts go (confirmed; presumed; probable; etc), what will likely take place as things settle out will be a comparison between expected death rates for an area and what the actual death rates for an area turned out to be (from Covid or any other cause) during the course of the pandemic. I believe this is what is known as "excess mortality". That should be a big help in understanding the toll of Covid. Some of this is already out. Look at Table 5 in this series of charts:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/index.htm

The column "percent of expected deaths" (of any kind) tells you where an area is at in relation to where the CDC expects them to be at (based upon looking at previous years, etc). 100% is the baseline. Any area under 100 has fewer deaths (of all causes) than expected, any area over 100 has more deaths than expected.

The number that jumps out immediately is New York City at 175%. That's clearly the effect of Covid.

What's interesting is that most of the areas are under 100. Now, some years, you just have fewer deaths than average. It happens. But this data could potentially point to some effect of the lockdowns, like fewer deaths from traffic accidents because not as many people are on the road. I don't know enough about the subject to say anything definitive and this is just my speculation.

One other thing on this data is that it may be incomplete. That is, more deaths may be added to the total for an area, in general, if there is a lag in reporting deaths from Covid, or a lag in reporting other deaths because Covid may be bogging down the ability to report deaths, period, as the health care system (including reporting agencies) for specific areas could be overwhelmed from the virus at the moment.

I think this type of analysis was used after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico several years ago. It can take some of the guesswork out of fatality determinations, in my understanding.

Also, counting illness fatalities from a large-scale virus is always some kind of guesswork. Look at the chart of flu deaths from CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

If you look at 2018-19 and go to the "deaths" header, you see that the "95% UI" figure is 26,339 to 52,664. That means they have 95% certainty that the actual death toll is somewhere between those two numbers. But no one knows exactly what the precise figure is (the declared estimate is 34,157), because no one can be certain if every flu death was counted, or if there may have been overcounting, etc.

Counting fatalities from widespread viruses is an inexact science.



Wiki on excess mortality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality_displacement
Jokic 31/21/22
Luka & Oscar = 5 x 27/8/8
The Brodie = All-out energy
Zenzibar
General Manager
Posts: 8,839
And1: 9,490
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#485 » by Zenzibar » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:51 pm

13th Man wrote:Jogger social distances himself from cop, lol.




He even let him get close then booked... :lol:
Stop All Genocides
Zenzibar
General Manager
Posts: 8,839
And1: 9,490
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#486 » by Zenzibar » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:52 pm

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/texas-anti-vaxxers-fear-mandatory-coronavirus-vaccines/

Texas Anti-Vaxxers Fear Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccines More Than the Virus Itself

On Friday, just after Governor Greg Abbott declared a statewide emergency in response to the coronavirus, Sarah posted a worried plea on a local anti-vaccine Facebook group. She worried that the declaration gives the government the right to “force vaccinations” on unwilling Texans.

“If they fast-track some vaccine for coronavirus, how are all of us going to defend ourselves?” she asked. “I’ll let them vaccinate my daughter over my dead body.”

Other members of the group, Tarrant County Crunchy Mamas, chimed in.

“Hide in the floors like they hid the Jews from the Nazis,” one suggested. “Hide them in our gun safe (yes, it’s a big safe and yes, we love our guns),” said another.

Though a COVID-19 vaccine is likely still more than a year away, according to experts, concerns over mandatory vaccinations have spread throughout the anti-vaxxer community in Texas, which is one of the largest in the nation. In recent years, prominent voices in the anti-vaxxer movement have settled in and around Austin, and a vocal Facebook group formed a political action committee, Texans for Vaccine Choice. This school year, nearly 73,000, or 1.35 percent, of Texas students opted out of getting at least one required vaccine for nonmedical reasons, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. That number does not include home schooled children.

The anti-vaccine community, at large, believes that vaccines are a tool of government control that make big pharmaceutical companies rich and have side effects that can cause lasting damage. Sarah, a Benbrook mom who asked that her last name be omitted over fears her family will be targeted by people who support vaccines, said she’s more scared that she’ll be forced to vaccinate her two-year-old daughter than she is of the virus itself.

“For a vast majority of the population, this is a few days of a high fever and a week of a lingering cough,” she said. “Once you give up rights to your body, the government owns you.”

In Texas, students are required to get a number of immunizations to attend school. But in 2003, the Legislature passed a law allowing kids to claim an exemption for “reasons of conscience, including religious belief,” provided parents sign an affidavit.

Allison Winnike, president and CEO of The Immunization Partnership, a Texas-based nonprofit aimed at eliminating vaccine-preventable diseases, said the state has the authority to make a prospective coronavirus vaccine mandatory, meaning people that don’t get it will be penalized, but notably not physically forced to get it.

There are three levels of vaccine interventions, Winnike said. The first is voluntary, which includes vaccines like the flu and HPV that are recommended but not required. The second is mandatory, for which penalties like fines or barring children from school can be applied. These include the measles, polio, and hepatitis A and B vaccines that kids have to get to attend school.

The last is compulsory, which is the category anti-vaxxers fear most. Such vaccinations occur when an infected person defies voluntary and mandatory interventions and continues to spread disease around the community. A judge can decide if the person should be taken into custody and forcibly vaccinated. Winnike said this occurs most often with tuberculosis patients, and that there’s no precedent for compulsory vaccinations on a widespread level.

Winnike believes that when a COVID-19 vaccine is eventually approved, it will likely fall into the voluntary category.

“Frankly, with COVID-19, the issue is more going to be trying to prioritize who gets to get the vaccine once it’s available because there won’t be enough initially to cover everyone,” she said.

Unfortunately, vaccines only work if enough people get them to create what’s called herd immunity, which slows rapidly spreading diseases and protects the small number of people who are prevented from getting vaccines for medical reasons. When people opt out of vaccination, the community’s collective immunity is weakened.

“This last year when we saw so many measles outbreaks, they were in places where their measles vaccine rates have been declining, and that’s no coincidence,” said Winnike, referring to 22 cases in Texas last year. “It’s hurting all the rest of Texans because now we’re losing our herd immunity status.”

But for anti-vaxxers, it’s a question of individual liberty.

“It’s our human right to be able to decide what is put into our bodies,” said Jessica Davis, a mom of five in East Texas. “I will not sacrifice my family or my body so others can feel ‘safe’ from a virus that is affecting so few people.”

Winnike said the fear that men in masks will start knocking on doors and forcing people to get vaccinated is “an invention” of the anti-vaxxer movement. “It’s part of their fear mongering,” she said. “That’s not how we do public health in the United States.”

Texans for Vaccine Choice, the PAC, posted on Facebook Saturday that they’re not against medical advancements, “as long as they are never, ever at the expense of informed consent, medical privacy, and vaccine choice.”

Reached for comment, the PAC wrote, “It is also our position that the fast-track designation of the vaccine which began human trials today is cause for concern, as essential steps in the safety assessment process will not be undertaken before administering the vaccine to healthy individuals.”

Though several vaccines will be entering the clinical trial phase in the next few months, it will still be at least a year before one is approved for widespread use, according to Dr. Peter Jay Hotez, professor and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and codirector of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.

Hotez said this is because vaccines have to be rigorously tested to ensure that they’re safe and effective.

“Despite what the anti-vaxxers claim, that vaccines are not adequately tested for safety, in fact, there’s no pharmaceutical that’s tested more for safety than vaccines,” Hotez said.

Still, many remain unconvinced.

Jacqueline Belowsky, 23, said she’s not concerned about the coronavirus and would treat it like she does any other illness, “naturally and not in a panic.”

Her four children, who are mostly unvaccinated, got the flu in December and she said she helped them get over it in three days.

“I will never accept any vaccine no matter how scary the government makes the situation seem,” Belowsky said. “I would refuse no matter what.”
Stop All Genocides
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 45,621
And1: 43,867
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#487 » by zimpy27 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:02 pm

Zenzibar wrote:https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/texas-anti-vaxxers-fear-mandatory-coronavirus-vaccines/

Texas Anti-Vaxxers Fear Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccines More Than the Virus Itself

On Friday, just after Governor Greg Abbott declared a statewide emergency in response to the coronavirus, Sarah posted a worried plea on a local anti-vaccine Facebook group. She worried that the declaration gives the government the right to “force vaccinations” on unwilling Texans.

“If they fast-track some vaccine for coronavirus, how are all of us going to defend ourselves?” she asked. “I’ll let them vaccinate my daughter over my dead body.”

Other members of the group, Tarrant County Crunchy Mamas, chimed in.

“Hide in the floors like they hid the Jews from the Nazis,” one suggested. “Hide them in our gun safe (yes, it’s a big safe and yes, we love our guns),” said another.

Though a COVID-19 vaccine is likely still more than a year away, according to experts, concerns over mandatory vaccinations have spread throughout the anti-vaxxer community in Texas, which is one of the largest in the nation. In recent years, prominent voices in the anti-vaxxer movement have settled in and around Austin, and a vocal Facebook group formed a political action committee, Texans for Vaccine Choice. This school year, nearly 73,000, or 1.35 percent, of Texas students opted out of getting at least one required vaccine for nonmedical reasons, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. That number does not include home schooled children.

The anti-vaccine community, at large, believes that vaccines are a tool of government control that make big pharmaceutical companies rich and have side effects that can cause lasting damage. Sarah, a Benbrook mom who asked that her last name be omitted over fears her family will be targeted by people who support vaccines, said she’s more scared that she’ll be forced to vaccinate her two-year-old daughter than she is of the virus itself.

“For a vast majority of the population, this is a few days of a high fever and a week of a lingering cough,” she said. “Once you give up rights to your body, the government owns you.”

In Texas, students are required to get a number of immunizations to attend school. But in 2003, the Legislature passed a law allowing kids to claim an exemption for “reasons of conscience, including religious belief,” provided parents sign an affidavit.

Allison Winnike, president and CEO of The Immunization Partnership, a Texas-based nonprofit aimed at eliminating vaccine-preventable diseases, said the state has the authority to make a prospective coronavirus vaccine mandatory, meaning people that don’t get it will be penalized, but notably not physically forced to get it.

There are three levels of vaccine interventions, Winnike said. The first is voluntary, which includes vaccines like the flu and HPV that are recommended but not required. The second is mandatory, for which penalties like fines or barring children from school can be applied. These include the measles, polio, and hepatitis A and B vaccines that kids have to get to attend school.

The last is compulsory, which is the category anti-vaxxers fear most. Such vaccinations occur when an infected person defies voluntary and mandatory interventions and continues to spread disease around the community. A judge can decide if the person should be taken into custody and forcibly vaccinated. Winnike said this occurs most often with tuberculosis patients, and that there’s no precedent for compulsory vaccinations on a widespread level.

Winnike believes that when a COVID-19 vaccine is eventually approved, it will likely fall into the voluntary category.

“Frankly, with COVID-19, the issue is more going to be trying to prioritize who gets to get the vaccine once it’s available because there won’t be enough initially to cover everyone,” she said.

Unfortunately, vaccines only work if enough people get them to create what’s called herd immunity, which slows rapidly spreading diseases and protects the small number of people who are prevented from getting vaccines for medical reasons. When people opt out of vaccination, the community’s collective immunity is weakened.

“This last year when we saw so many measles outbreaks, they were in places where their measles vaccine rates have been declining, and that’s no coincidence,” said Winnike, referring to 22 cases in Texas last year. “It’s hurting all the rest of Texans because now we’re losing our herd immunity status.”

But for anti-vaxxers, it’s a question of individual liberty.

“It’s our human right to be able to decide what is put into our bodies,” said Jessica Davis, a mom of five in East Texas. “I will not sacrifice my family or my body so others can feel ‘safe’ from a virus that is affecting so few people.”

Winnike said the fear that men in masks will start knocking on doors and forcing people to get vaccinated is “an invention” of the anti-vaxxer movement. “It’s part of their fear mongering,” she said. “That’s not how we do public health in the United States.”

Texans for Vaccine Choice, the PAC, posted on Facebook Saturday that they’re not against medical advancements, “as long as they are never, ever at the expense of informed consent, medical privacy, and vaccine choice.”

Reached for comment, the PAC wrote, “It is also our position that the fast-track designation of the vaccine which began human trials today is cause for concern, as essential steps in the safety assessment process will not be undertaken before administering the vaccine to healthy individuals.”

Though several vaccines will be entering the clinical trial phase in the next few months, it will still be at least a year before one is approved for widespread use, according to Dr. Peter Jay Hotez, professor and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and codirector of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.

Hotez said this is because vaccines have to be rigorously tested to ensure that they’re safe and effective.

“Despite what the anti-vaxxers claim, that vaccines are not adequately tested for safety, in fact, there’s no pharmaceutical that’s tested more for safety than vaccines,” Hotez said.

Still, many remain unconvinced.

Jacqueline Belowsky, 23, said she’s not concerned about the coronavirus and would treat it like she does any other illness, “naturally and not in a panic.”

Her four children, who are mostly unvaccinated, got the flu in December and she said she helped them get over it in three days.

“I will never accept any vaccine no matter how scary the government makes the situation seem,” Belowsky said. “I would refuse no matter what.”



I always wonder if these people are just irrationally afraid of needles and therefore cling to elaborate nonsensical conspiracies.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
Zenzibar
General Manager
Posts: 8,839
And1: 9,490
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#488 » by Zenzibar » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:11 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/texas-anti-vaxxers-fear-mandatory-coronavirus-vaccines/

Texas Anti-Vaxxers Fear Mandatory COVID-19 Vaccines More Than the Virus Itself

On Friday, just after Governor Greg Abbott declared a statewide emergency in response to the coronavirus, Sarah posted a worried plea on a local anti-vaccine Facebook group. She worried that the declaration gives the government the right to “force vaccinations” on unwilling Texans.

“If they fast-track some vaccine for coronavirus, how are all of us going to defend ourselves?” she asked. “I’ll let them vaccinate my daughter over my dead body.”

Other members of the group, Tarrant County Crunchy Mamas, chimed in.

“Hide in the floors like they hid the Jews from the Nazis,” one suggested. “Hide them in our gun safe (yes, it’s a big safe and yes, we love our guns),” said another.

Though a COVID-19 vaccine is likely still more than a year away, according to experts, concerns over mandatory vaccinations have spread throughout the anti-vaxxer community in Texas, which is one of the largest in the nation. In recent years, prominent voices in the anti-vaxxer movement have settled in and around Austin, and a vocal Facebook group formed a political action committee, Texans for Vaccine Choice. This school year, nearly 73,000, or 1.35 percent, of Texas students opted out of getting at least one required vaccine for nonmedical reasons, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services. That number does not include home schooled children.

The anti-vaccine community, at large, believes that vaccines are a tool of government control that make big pharmaceutical companies rich and have side effects that can cause lasting damage. Sarah, a Benbrook mom who asked that her last name be omitted over fears her family will be targeted by people who support vaccines, said she’s more scared that she’ll be forced to vaccinate her two-year-old daughter than she is of the virus itself.

“For a vast majority of the population, this is a few days of a high fever and a week of a lingering cough,” she said. “Once you give up rights to your body, the government owns you.”

In Texas, students are required to get a number of immunizations to attend school. But in 2003, the Legislature passed a law allowing kids to claim an exemption for “reasons of conscience, including religious belief,” provided parents sign an affidavit.

Allison Winnike, president and CEO of The Immunization Partnership, a Texas-based nonprofit aimed at eliminating vaccine-preventable diseases, said the state has the authority to make a prospective coronavirus vaccine mandatory, meaning people that don’t get it will be penalized, but notably not physically forced to get it.

There are three levels of vaccine interventions, Winnike said. The first is voluntary, which includes vaccines like the flu and HPV that are recommended but not required. The second is mandatory, for which penalties like fines or barring children from school can be applied. These include the measles, polio, and hepatitis A and B vaccines that kids have to get to attend school.

The last is compulsory, which is the category anti-vaxxers fear most. Such vaccinations occur when an infected person defies voluntary and mandatory interventions and continues to spread disease around the community. A judge can decide if the person should be taken into custody and forcibly vaccinated. Winnike said this occurs most often with tuberculosis patients, and that there’s no precedent for compulsory vaccinations on a widespread level.

Winnike believes that when a COVID-19 vaccine is eventually approved, it will likely fall into the voluntary category.

“Frankly, with COVID-19, the issue is more going to be trying to prioritize who gets to get the vaccine once it’s available because there won’t be enough initially to cover everyone,” she said.

Unfortunately, vaccines only work if enough people get them to create what’s called herd immunity, which slows rapidly spreading diseases and protects the small number of people who are prevented from getting vaccines for medical reasons. When people opt out of vaccination, the community’s collective immunity is weakened.

“This last year when we saw so many measles outbreaks, they were in places where their measles vaccine rates have been declining, and that’s no coincidence,” said Winnike, referring to 22 cases in Texas last year. “It’s hurting all the rest of Texans because now we’re losing our herd immunity status.”

But for anti-vaxxers, it’s a question of individual liberty.

“It’s our human right to be able to decide what is put into our bodies,” said Jessica Davis, a mom of five in East Texas. “I will not sacrifice my family or my body so others can feel ‘safe’ from a virus that is affecting so few people.”

Winnike said the fear that men in masks will start knocking on doors and forcing people to get vaccinated is “an invention” of the anti-vaxxer movement. “It’s part of their fear mongering,” she said. “That’s not how we do public health in the United States.”

Texans for Vaccine Choice, the PAC, posted on Facebook Saturday that they’re not against medical advancements, “as long as they are never, ever at the expense of informed consent, medical privacy, and vaccine choice.”

Reached for comment, the PAC wrote, “It is also our position that the fast-track designation of the vaccine which began human trials today is cause for concern, as essential steps in the safety assessment process will not be undertaken before administering the vaccine to healthy individuals.”

Though several vaccines will be entering the clinical trial phase in the next few months, it will still be at least a year before one is approved for widespread use, according to Dr. Peter Jay Hotez, professor and dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine and codirector of the Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development.

Hotez said this is because vaccines have to be rigorously tested to ensure that they’re safe and effective.

“Despite what the anti-vaxxers claim, that vaccines are not adequately tested for safety, in fact, there’s no pharmaceutical that’s tested more for safety than vaccines,” Hotez said.

Still, many remain unconvinced.

Jacqueline Belowsky, 23, said she’s not concerned about the coronavirus and would treat it like she does any other illness, “naturally and not in a panic.”

Her four children, who are mostly unvaccinated, got the flu in December and she said she helped them get over it in three days.

“I will never accept any vaccine no matter how scary the government makes the situation seem,” Belowsky said. “I would refuse no matter what.”



I always wonder if these people are just irrationally afraid of needles and therefore cling to elaborate nonsensical conspiracies.


Nope. It's just that vaccines are primarily unnecessary.
Stop All Genocides
michaelm
RealGM
Posts: 12,171
And1: 5,221
Joined: Apr 06, 2010
 

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#489 » by michaelm » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:14 pm

One thing which has proliferated at the same time as the virus has certainly been conspiracy theories.

What do you think of the remsidivir stuff?. It does seem to be emerging that immunity after being infected by the virus is somewhat hit or miss.
mademan
RealGM
Posts: 31,977
And1: 31,077
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#490 » by mademan » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:19 pm

not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.
shakes0
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,434
And1: 5,048
Joined: Jul 14, 2017
Location: Chicago
       

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#491 » by shakes0 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:23 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
13th Man wrote:Jogger social distances himself from cop, lol.




He even let him get close then booked... :lol:


lol who was that, Moe Farah?
Zenzibar
General Manager
Posts: 8,839
And1: 9,490
Joined: Jan 10, 2019
         

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#492 » by Zenzibar » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:28 pm

mademan wrote:not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.


With you Bro.

Not sure if it'll be mandatory or not, but I for one am not vaccinating if at all possible.
Stop All Genocides
Pointgod
RealGM
Posts: 24,064
And1: 24,400
Joined: Jun 28, 2014

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#493 » by Pointgod » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:37 pm

mademan wrote:not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.


What is it that you think a vaccine is going to do to you?
mademan
RealGM
Posts: 31,977
And1: 31,077
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#494 » by mademan » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:44 pm

Pointgod wrote:
mademan wrote:not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.


What is it that you think a vaccine is going to do to you?


Thats an odd question. Im not sitting here coming up with weird, hypothetical future scenarios. Point is, the virus is no where near dangerous enough for me to take a vaccine that has no long term rigorous data to confirm it's safety.
hippesthippo
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,795
And1: 3,742
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
     

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#495 » by hippesthippo » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:49 pm

Pointgod wrote:
mademan wrote:not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.


What is it that you think a vaccine is going to do to you?


Vaccines contain nano-chips which the government can use to track your movements and actions.

You didn't know that?
otwok
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,320
And1: 2,328
Joined: May 19, 2010

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#496 » by otwok » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:01 pm

hippesthippo wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
mademan wrote:not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.


What is it that you think a vaccine is going to do to you?


Vaccines contain nano-chips which the government can use to track your movements and actions.

You didn't know that?


That's ridiculous to say. If someone doesn't want a vaccine what does it matter the reason is. It doesn't matter what his rationale is. If a vaccine is available, then that probably means things are a bit under control and there is a better understanding of a virus. Shaming people into doing things they really don't want to do isn't really the right thing to do.
mademan
RealGM
Posts: 31,977
And1: 31,077
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#497 » by mademan » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:20 pm

shocker. not wanting to take a fast tracked vaccine with no rigorous scientific long term data means youre an unscientific conspiracy nut.
Triples333
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,786
And1: 3,672
Joined: Sep 05, 2016

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#498 » by Triples333 » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:20 pm

Does anybody here have a source for the graph (or data list) of daily Covid deaths in the USA/World? Curious about the state of the flattening of the curve over the past few weeks.
Pointgod
RealGM
Posts: 24,064
And1: 24,400
Joined: Jun 28, 2014

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#499 » by Pointgod » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:37 pm

mademan wrote:
Pointgod wrote:
mademan wrote:not an anti-vaxxer, but i wouldnt blame anyone for not taking the vaccine. I probably wont, and its something i actually thought about. You dont need to be a conspiracy nut to not want to either. There's no long term safety data on a new vaccine and the virus isnt dangerous enough for my demographic to risk that uncertainty.


What is it that you think a vaccine is going to do to you?


Thats an odd question. Im not sitting here coming up with weird, hypothetical future scenarios. Point is, the virus is no where near dangerous enough for me to take a vaccine that has no long term rigorous data to confirm it's safety.


It’s not an odd question. A vaccine is realistically 18 months to 2 years away. And that 18 months to 2 years will be spent in clinical trials assessing the efficacy of the vaccine, identifying side effects and recalibrating the vaccine. That’s why i asked about the negative effects of the vaccine based on the rigorous testing.
Whole Truth
Head Coach
Posts: 7,457
And1: 3,842
Joined: Mar 19, 2018

Re: Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread 

Post#500 » by Whole Truth » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:41 pm

Professor Luc Montagnier is a 2008 Nobel Prize winner for Medicine, he claims that SARS-CoV-2 is a manipulated virus that was accidentally released from a laboratory in Wuhan, China. Chinese researchers are said to have used coronaviruses in their work to develop an AIDS vaccine & HIV DNA fragments are believed to have been found in the SARS-CoV-2 genome.

According to Professor Luc Montagnier, winner of the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2008 for “discovering” HIV as the cause of the AIDS epidemic together with Françoise Barré-Sinoussi, the SARS-CoV-2 is a virus that was manipulated. The laboratory, known for its work on coronaviruses, tried to use one of these viruses as a vector for HIV in the search for an AIDS vaccine!

“With my colleague, bio-mathematician Jean-Claude Perez, we carefully analyzed the description of the genome of this RNA virus,” explains Luc Montagnier.

Indian researchers have already tried to publish the results of the analyses that showed that this coronavirus genome contained sequences of another virus, … the HIV virus (AIDS virus), but they were forced to withdraw their findings as the pressure from the mainstream was too great.

In a challenging question by Dr Jean-François Lemoine he inferred that the coronavirus under investigation may have come from a patient who is otherwise infected with HIV.

Luc Montagnier, "no, in order to insert an HIV sequence into this genome, molecular tools are needed, and that can only be done in a laboratory."

Montagnier thinks it's an accident because the purpose of it's work, was the search for an AIDS vaccine.

He has a positive outlook that the altered elements of this virus are eliminated as it spreads stating "Nature does not accept any molecular tinkering, it will eliminate these unnatural changes and even if nothing is done, things will get better, but unfortunately after many deaths.”

Don't derail from thread intent. And people, provide sources, though this type of discussion, once again, is more appropriate for the CA thread..this thread is about the current state of how the virus is impacting communities.

Return to The General Board