2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.2)

[bebopdeluxe]

The Nuggets have the easiest schedule coming up in March and 9th easiest overall remaining. Whereas the Bucks have the toughest remaining schedule and the Sixers have the 10th toughest remaining. That certainly will play into Jokic's favor if the Nuggets can string together a bunch of wins to help bolster the team record to go along with his already dominant Individual play. Murray, hopefully, will return at some point next month.

Source: https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

I think if Embiid keeps his level of play up and the Sixers finish in the top 3 in the East, he will win it.

[KGtabake]

The Nuggets have the easiest schedule coming up in March and 9th easiest overall remaining. Whereas the Bucks have the toughest remaining schedule and the Sixers have the 10th toughest remaining. That certainly will play into Jokic's favor if the Nuggets can string together a bunch of wins to help bolster the team record to go along with his already dominant Individual play. Murray, hopefully, will return at some point next month.

Source: https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

Looking at the standings, the Nuggets are pretty much locked in at 4-6. They're not touching top 3, and even 4 seems ambitious.

Philly and Bucks are more interesting, either team has a chance to finish 1st or in the play-ins. Tonight's game will be fairly impactful towards the MVP race.

Surely record is more important then standing… are we really going to reward a player in the east with an identical record to a team in the west because they’ve got a higher seeding in the east?

It depends.
Giannis is leading DPOY candidate. That has always been his calling card in those races.
If you're top3 player on both ends, aren't you MVP worthy?

Embiid is without a clear cut 2nd option out there just like Jokic. You could argue that subtracting Simmons helped him with his game (Maxey fits better) and the narrative(never won). The fact remains. He's up there.

[Sharkboy242]

This!! The board has been relentlessly on Jokic's knob this whole season, and guess what. Just like the Vegas Odds, Embiid leads the straw poll by a small margin just like a few of us were saying was going to happen.

Lol at people trying to twist this the other way around. Never change GB.

Holy ****, this place will be in utter shambles if Embiid actually wins the MVP. I truly wonder if some of you will be able to handle it like rational human beings.

What? Just because everyone here likes Jokic doesn't mean we think that carries over to mainstream basketball media.

Everyone knows that outside of these forums, the talking heads have an anti-Jokic bias due to him not being athletic and lacking the traditional attributes of a 'dominant' player. You could argue that a lot of the Jokic fanboyism has been in response to his lack of respect from the general media.

STOP. Just please. STOP.

All of this xenophobic crap is simply utter garbage. The guys setting the lines in Vegas would install A FROG as the low odds on the board if, in their opinion, the said FROG was believed to be the most likely person to win the MVP.

Never change, GB.

Dude I said nothing about Jokic being from Serbia, that was all you. Don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I said is controversial with regards to Jokic' lack of athleticism being used against him. Chill the f out.

[_NoMas]

Looking at the standings, the Nuggets are pretty much locked in at 4-6. They're not touching top 3, and even 4 seems ambitious.

Philly and Bucks are more interesting, either team has a chance to finish 1st or in the play-ins. Tonight's game will be fairly impactful towards the MVP race.

Surely record is more important then standing… are we really going to reward a player in the east with an identical record to a team in the west because they’ve got a higher seeding in the east?

It depends.
Giannis is leading DPOY candidate. That has always been his calling card in those races.
If you're top3 player on both ends, aren't you MVP worthy?

Embiid is without a clear cut 2nd option out there just like Jokic. You could argue that subtracting Simmons helped him with his game (Maxey fits better) and the narrative(never won). The fact remains. He's up there.

I agree, I think you can make a pretty compelling case for all 3 of them, so it’s all to play for. But if there records stay similar I think it would strange to use team standing as the differentiator. I’d agree that Giannis dpoy level play probably has him ahead, just. Be interesting to see who lays down a marker tonight, Giannis is always up for the heat, hopefully Embiid brings it too!

[Doctor MJ]

What? Just because everyone here likes Jokic doesn't mean we think that carries over to mainstream basketball media.

Everyone knows that outside of these forums, the talking heads have an anti-Jokic bias due to him not being athletic and lacking the traditional attributes of a 'dominant' player. You could argue that a lot of the Jokic fanboyism has been in response to his lack of respect from the general media.

STOP. Just please. STOP.

All of this xenophobic crap is simply utter garbage. The guys setting the lines in Vegas would install A FROG as the low odds on the board if, in their opinion, the said FROG was believed to be the most likely person to win the MVP.

Never change, GB.

Dude I said nothing about Jokic being from Serbia, that was all you. Don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I said is controversial with regards to Jokic' lack of athleticism being used against him. Chill the f out.

Wow, yeah, I have to add 2 more things:

1. People keep bringing up "Vegas" as if odds from Vegas represent what the smartest guys in Vegas think SHOULD happen, when their job is to evaluate a) what the MVP voters will do and b) what fans think MVP voters will do.

The concept of "the smart money" has gotten so twisted in people's minds. It's supposed to mean "the smart bettors", but people are now associating that with the odds bookies set based on the entirety of the betting population, and basically by definition, if the smart bettors represent an elite minority of bettors who do things differently from the flock, then the odds are designed to take best advantage of the "dumb money", not the smart.

2. When someone doesn't bring up anything pertaining to xenophobia, and the response is "Stop bringing up xenophobia it's not real!", the response kinda demonstrates how concretely salient the phenomenon is actually is in the mind of the person who doesn't believe it's real.

For the record, I would say that using the word "xenophobia" to describe the bias toward more American-type players makes a lot of sense, but it's also understandable why people would object to it. There isn't necessarily any fear involved in the American-basketball-centric worldview.

[Young gun 6]

Looking at the standings, the Nuggets are pretty much locked in at 4-6. They're not touching top 3, and even 4 seems ambitious.

Philly and Bucks are more interesting, either team has a chance to finish 1st or in the play-ins. Tonight's game will be fairly impactful towards the MVP race.

Surely record is more important then standing… are we really going to reward a player in the east with an identical record to a team in the west because they’ve got a higher seeding in the east?

It depends.
Giannis is leading DPOY candidate. That has always been his calling card in those races.
If you're top3 player on both ends, aren't you MVP worthy?

Embiid is without a clear cut 2nd option out there just like Jokic. You could argue that subtracting Simmons helped him with his game (Maxey fits better) and the narrative(never won). The fact remains. He's up there.

Did you forget about Tobias Harris? Pretty clear cut no.2 option who is very similar to Giannis’ no.2 in Middleton.

[The Box Office]

For me at the All Star break, league MVP is DeMar DeRozan.

- Chicago Bulls number one in the East.
- DeMar has been killing it with injuries to Zach LaVine, Lonzo Ball, and Alex Caruso.
- Barely taking any three pointers to boot.

I previously had Chris Paul as the front runner. Not anymore. CP3 is number 2. Giannis is 3.

[Jcool0]

For me at the All Star break, league MVP is DeMar DeRozan.

- Chicago Bulls number one in the East.
- DeMar has been killing it with injuries to Zach LaVine, Lonzo Ball, and Alex Caruso.
- Barely taking any three pointers to boot.

I previously had Chris Paul as the front runner. Not anymore. CP3 is number 2. Giannis is 3.

I think you are the only one with Chris Paul as a frontrunner.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

For me at the All Star break, league MVP is DeMar DeRozan.

- Chicago Bulls number one in the East.
- DeMar has been killing it with injuries to Zach LaVine, Lonzo Ball, and Alex Caruso.
- Barely taking any three pointers to boot.

I previously had Chris Paul as the front runner. Not anymore. CP3 is number 2. Giannis is 3.

I don't disagree DD is a candidate, but how is #3 a positive?

[Genjuro]

Read on Twitter

?s=20&t=6rv8_UTPCSS59xLy7V5QBg

It's true that Jokic season in points, rebounds and assists averages is unprecedent at this point (it would become the 26th unique statistical season in the NBA history combining those categories by my count), but another player has indeed meet those 25/12/6 marks, Oscar Robertson, with 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg and 11.4 apg.

[The High Cyde]

Jokic has just completely figured out basketball, very few achieve that in anything.

[KGtabake]

Surely record is more important then standing… are we really going to reward a player in the east with an identical record to a team in the west because they’ve got a higher seeding in the east?

It depends.
Giannis is leading DPOY candidate. That has always been his calling card in those races.
If you're top3 player on both ends, aren't you MVP worthy?

Embiid is without a clear cut 2nd option out there just like Jokic. You could argue that subtracting Simmons helped him with his game (Maxey fits better) and the narrative(never won). The fact remains. He's up there.

Did you forget about Tobias Harris? Pretty clear cut no.2 option who is very similar to Giannis’ no.2 in Middleton.

Middleton isn't good this season but he's a better player than Harris in almost any thing you can think of offensively. And defensively. Basically, he's a way better player.
Both should be solid third options. Middleton is a solid third option and if he gets it going he can be solid second option as well.
Harris would never. Fringe third, most suitable for fourth.
Maxey is the guy and Philly deserved a guard like him. Embiid deserved it too. He had never played with a shooting point. But Maxey is not all star caliber(yet). That does count for something, no?
The Sixers can win the conference in the RS.
It's important for the award.
Without Embiid they are a play in team at best(probably not though-11th-13th?).
Nuggets would have been a bottom team without Jokic.
But they can't win the West. I'm not saying it's fair. It is what it is though. You need the team record. A Westbrook season will not happen again for the voters.
And Tobias must go lol
I admit i was never high on him.
Overrated, overpayed, overanything.

[eyeatoma]

It depends.
Giannis is leading DPOY candidate. That has always been his calling card in those races.
If you're top3 player on both ends, aren't you MVP worthy?

Embiid is without a clear cut 2nd option out there just like Jokic. You could argue that subtracting Simmons helped him with his game (Maxey fits better) and the narrative(never won). The fact remains. He's up there.

Did you forget about Tobias Harris? Pretty clear cut no.2 option who is very similar to Giannis’ no.2 in Middleton.

Middleton isn't good this season but he's a better player than Harris in almost any thing you can think of offensively. And defensively. Basically, he's a way better player.
Both should be solid third options. Middleton is a solid third option and if he gets it going he can be solid second option as well.
Harris would never. Fringe third, most suitable for fourth.
Maxey is the guy and Philly deserved a guard like him. Embiid deserved it too. He had never played with a shooting point. But Maxey is not all star caliber(yet). That does count for something, no?
The Sixers can win the conference in the RS.
It's important for the award.
Without Embiid they are a play in team at best(probably not though-11th-13th?).
Nuggets would have been a bottom team without Jokic.
But they can't win the West. I'm not saying it's fair. It is what it is though. You need the team record. A Westbrook season will not happen again for the voters.
And Tobias must go lol
I admit i was never high on him.
Overrated, overpayed, overanything.

Agreed with everything you just said. Great post!

[Hobo4President]

STOP. Just please. STOP.

All of this xenophobic crap is simply utter garbage. The guys setting the lines in Vegas would install A FROG as the low odds on the board if, in their opinion, the said FROG was believed to be the most likely person to win the MVP.

Never change, GB.

Dude I said nothing about Jokic being from Serbia, that was all you. Don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I said is controversial with regards to Jokic' lack of athleticism being used against him. Chill the f out.

Wow, yeah, I have to add 2 more things:

1. People keep bringing up "Vegas" as if odds from Vegas represent what the smartest guys in Vegas think SHOULD happen, when their job is to evaluate a) what the MVP voters will do and b) what fans think MVP voters will do.

The concept of "the smart money" has gotten so twisted in people's minds. It's supposed to mean "the smart bettors", but people are now associating that with the odds bookies set based on the entirety of the betting population, and basically by definition, if the smart bettors represent an elite minority of bettors who do things differently from the flock, then the odds are designed to take best advantage of the "dumb money", not the smart.

2. When someone doesn't bring up anything pertaining to xenophobia, and the response is "Stop bringing up xenophobia it's not real!", the response kinda demonstrates how concretely salient the phenomenon is actually is in the mind of the person who doesn't believe it's real.

For the record, I would say that using the word "xenophobia" to describe the bias toward more American-type players makes a lot of sense, but it's also understandable why people would object to it. There isn't necessarily any fear involved in the American-basketball-centric worldview.

This. People keep confusing prescriptive and descriptive in here. If this whole thread was about "who is most likely to win MVP" we wouldn't even need a discussion. Just lock the thread and have a mod periodically post the Vegas odds.

[Mickey8]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=HouseofHighlights

Three stooges, DeRozen is the top three player in the world

[B-easy]

[youtube][/youtube]

Three stooges, DeRozen is the top three player in the world

These commentators have a lot of power in swaying the narrative. They have a responsibility to be more objective.

[The Box Office]

For me at the All Star break, league MVP is DeMar DeRozan.

- Chicago Bulls number one in the East.
- DeMar has been killing it with injuries to Zach LaVine, Lonzo Ball, and Alex Caruso.
- Barely taking any three pointers to boot.

I previously had Chris Paul as the front runner. Not anymore. CP3 is number 2. Giannis is 3.

I don't disagree DD is a candidate, but how is #3 a positive?

I don't see how Giannis is number 1 since the Bucks is currently NOT number one in the East. I'm 95% sure that's going to change AFTER All Star break. Giannis having another incredible year. I get that. Still have to translate to team success though.

Once Bucks get number one spot in the East then I have Giannis as the front runner.

As for Jokic? He's having an incredible year, too. BUT I don't consider his current season as a season for the ages because:

- He's not averaging a triple double.
- His Nuggets are barely holding on to 6th seed. They can drop to 7th/8th seed easily.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

For me at the All Star break, league MVP is DeMar DeRozan.

- Chicago Bulls number one in the East.
- DeMar has been killing it with injuries to Zach LaVine, Lonzo Ball, and Alex Caruso.
- Barely taking any three pointers to boot.

I previously had Chris Paul as the front runner. Not anymore. CP3 is number 2. Giannis is 3.

I don't disagree DD is a candidate, but how is #3 a positive?

I don't see how Giannis is number 1 since the Bucks is currently NOT number one in the East. I'm 95% sure that's going to change AFTER All Star break. Giannis having another incredible year. I get that. Still have to translate to team success though.

Once Bucks get number one spot in the East then I have Giannis as the front runner.

As for Jokic? He's having an incredible year, too. BUT I don't consider his current season as a season for the ages because:

- He's not averaging a triple double.
- His Nuggets are barely holding on to 6th seed. They can drop to 7th/8th seed easily.

Sorry, I was talking about your third point under DeRozan. You make it sound like it helps his narrative that he doesn't shoot 3. All things being equal on efficiency I want a guy shooting 3s cause it spreads out the floor.

[DreamTeam09]

That boy Luka needs to be in the convo like I said. What he's about to do over these next 25 games is gonna be crazy.

40 10 n 8 in the 3rd.... Notven hogging either, this is just how he has to play right now

[turnaroundJ]

what a time to be alive. you seldom to see this level of superstar play in so many players at a time. i'd have to go back to the early or late 2000s.