Wembanyama. I'm concerned

[Bum Adebayo]

Lebron was better in his rookie season, like no comparison at all, 20.9 PPG on an era where scoring was much more difficult and pace was much lower, 95 TS+, compared to 19.3 PPG on 91 TS+, this is scoring, then in terms of playmaking it's not even a contest, with Wembanyama having more turnovers than assists with less than 3 APG, compared to Lebron's almost 6 APG with fairly low TOV.
Stop overrating the kid now, he has not been that good, future is bright ok but in this season not that good.

Good points but you're also forgetting rookie LeBron was playing like 40mpg whereas Wemby plays around 30. That's a pretty substantial difference in playing time for those numbers

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less, and even with that, Wembanyama is scoring less efficiently in terms of adjusted TS.

[Bornstellar]

Lebron was better in his rookie season, like no comparison at all, 20.9 PPG on an era where scoring was much more difficult and pace was much lower, 95 TS+, compared to 19.3 PPG on 91 TS+, this is scoring, then in terms of playmaking it's not even a contest, with Wembanyama having more turnovers than assists with less than 3 APG, compared to Lebron's almost 6 APG with fairly low TOV.
Stop overrating the kid now, he has not been that good, future is bright ok but in this season not that good.

Good points but you're also forgetting rookie LeBron was playing like 40mpg whereas Wemby plays around 30. That's a pretty substantial difference in playing time for those numbers

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less.

That makes zero sense

[Bum Adebayo]

Good points but you're also forgetting rookie LeBron was playing like 40mpg whereas Wemby plays around 30. That's a pretty substantial difference in playing time for those numbers

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less.

That makes zero sense

Trust me, I watch Embiid every game, I know that is a HUGE factor, Lebron being a 18 years old rookie and playing well at 40 mpg is really impressive.

[Edrees]

Good points but you're also forgetting rookie LeBron was playing like 40mpg whereas Wemby plays around 30. That's a pretty substantial difference in playing time for those numbers

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less.

That makes zero sense

No it doesn't, Wembenyama would probably get tired if he played 40 mpg every game. Probably get diminishing returns on his counting stats and his efficiency and turnovers might get worse if he's playing 10 mpg totally fatigued. You can't just extrapolate per minute stats to say a player would maintain those averages over any number of minutes. that's a known caveat of per X min stats.

If a player is able to play at a high level in more minutes and another player can't, that is easily something you can use to say one player is a better basketball player.

[Archx]

Lebron was better in his rookie season, like no comparison at all, 20.9 PPG on an era where scoring was much more difficult and pace was much lower, 95 TS+, compared to 19.3 PPG on 91 TS+, this is scoring, then in terms of playmaking it's not even a contest, with Wembanyama having more turnovers than assists with less than 3 APG, compared to Lebron's almost 6 APG with fairly low TOV.
Stop overrating the kid now, he has not been that good, future is bright ok but in this season not that good.

Good points but you're also forgetting rookie LeBron was playing like 40mpg whereas Wemby plays around 30. That's a pretty substantial difference in playing time for those numbers

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less, and even with that, Wembanyama is scoring less efficiently in terms of adjusted TS.

You said yourself, pace was much lower, 40 mins probably felt more like 30 at this stage. Today's league is more run and gun but it's not uncommon for star players to log even below 30 mins.

[Edrees]

Good points but you're also forgetting rookie LeBron was playing like 40mpg whereas Wemby plays around 30. That's a pretty substantial difference in playing time for those numbers

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less, and even with that, Wembanyama is scoring less efficiently in terms of adjusted TS.

You said yourself, pace was much lower, 40 mins probably felt more like 30 at this stage. Today's league is more run and gun but it's not uncommon for star players to log even below 30 mins.

Lebron is averaging 33.7 mpg THIS YEAR at age 38, and you are saying he played the equivalent of 30 in his rooke year. The conclusion there is that Lebron plays more equivalent minutes today than he did his rookie season at 18. That just doesn't make sense at all to me.

Lebron's 33.7 mpg at age 38 is still more than Wembenyama at age 19/20. This is more about one player being built to be well more conditioned than another, more than it is about league pace.

[Archx]

So Lebron had to play way more minutes, thus contributing to much higher fatigue, therefore his scoring is even more remarkable. It's easier to score the ball more efficiently when you play almost 10mpg less, and even with that, Wembanyama is scoring less efficiently in terms of adjusted TS.

You said yourself, pace was much lower, 40 mins probably felt more like 30 at this stage. Today's league is more run and gun but it's not uncommon for star players to log even below 30 mins.

Lebron is averaging 33.7 mpg THIS YEAR at age 38, and you are saying he played the equivalent of 30 in his rooke year. The conclusion there is that Lebron plays more equivalent minutes today than he did his rookie season at 18. That just doesn't make sense at all to me.

Lebron's 33.7 mpg at age 38 is still more than Wembenyama at age 19/20. This is more about one player being built to be well more conditioned than another, more than it is about league pace.

Well obviously it's not apple to apple comparisons, i just tried to present my opinion the best i could.... But that is still 7 mpg less than 40. And fact is, players don't average 40 or more mpg anymore. Lebron is also a bad comparison since i think we can all agree that he's just a freak of nature. Almost one of a kind.

[Edrees]

You said yourself, pace was much lower, 40 mins probably felt more like 30 at this stage. Today's league is more run and gun but it's not uncommon for star players to log even below 30 mins.

Lebron is averaging 33.7 mpg THIS YEAR at age 38, and you are saying he played the equivalent of 30 in his rooke year. The conclusion there is that Lebron plays more equivalent minutes today than he did his rookie season at 18. That just doesn't make sense at all to me.

Lebron's 33.7 mpg at age 38 is still more than Wembenyama at age 19/20. This is more about one player being built to be well more conditioned than another, more than it is about league pace.

Well obviously it's not apple to apple comparisons, i just tried to present my opinion the best i could.... But that is still 7 mpg less than 40. And fact is, players don't average 40 or more mpg anymore. Lebron is also a bad comparison since i think we can all agree that he's just a freak of nature. Almost one of a kind.

Yeah, probably not an ideal comparison to make. Wemby doesn't have to be a new Lebron to be a generational player in the making.

[KG Leonard]

Lebron was younger and started in the most defensive oriented era, Wemby is in the most offensive friendly era.

Wemby scores a bit more Per 36 (22 points to 19) but his efficiency is barely better despite playing in a league where the average TS is like 58%.

Wemby is not really doing any better as a scorer and he obviously not a playmaker. He my very well be better than James due to defense, but you should take into account that Lebron James was basically an all-nba player when he was Wemby's age.

Come on man that's historically not true at all! Lebron wasn't all nba at 19, he is months younger than wemby rookie season, he was inefficient in first two seasons. He was a "bad" as many rookies, specially compared to Lebron 2007-2008 when he was 22+. Sure he is scored alot in 2005-2006(his 3rd year!) but he was more of a scorer in a bad team compared to the real Lebron.


41.7 FG% 29%3pt % 2P% 43.8
eFG% 43.8 is Lebron rookie numbers and it jumped barely in his second 20 years old season. Even those numbers was eons away from All NBA level. Just because Lebron became great 3-4 years in doesn't means we should lie, erase his typically bad teenage star years.

LeBron was second team all NBA his second season and finished 6th in MVP voting

He was first team all NBA his third season and second in MVP voting. He was also a major +TS% added player by his second season despite mostly creating his own offense

Wemby is on pace to have double the negative TS% add LeBron did as a rookie despite taking 80% of his field goals attempts assisted and playing center which historically is a position that’s +6% league average on TS% whereas SF is about average. Point guards, which was functionally LeBrons role, tend to have a TS% 4-5% worse than league average historically

My point was let Wemby be good or bad the first couple of seasons even the GOATs have had slow starts. I don't care about Lebron second, third season TS%, his team didn't win many regular season no matter those stats. Yeah Lebron is one of kind but he wasn't Lebron level from 2003. Of course the only thing you can compare is their rookie age, lack of college experience.

[zimpy27]

Lebron was younger and started in the most defensive oriented era, Wemby is in the most offensive friendly era.

Wemby scores a bit more Per 36 (22 points to 19) but his efficiency is barely better despite playing in a league where the average TS is like 58%.

Wemby is not really doing any better as a scorer and he obviously not a playmaker. He my very well be better than James due to defense, but you should take into account that Lebron James was basically an all-nba player when he was Wemby's age.

Come on man that's historically not true at all! Lebron wasn't all nba at 19, he is months younger than wemby rookie season, he was inefficient in first two seasons. He was a "bad" as many rookies, specially compared to Lebron 2007-2008 when he was 22+. Sure he is scored alot in 2005-2006(his 3rd year!) but he was more of a scorer in a bad team compared to the real Lebron.


41.7 FG% 29%3pt % 2P% 43.8
eFG% 43.8 is Lebron rookie numbers and it jumped barely in his second 20 years old season. Even those numbers was eons away from All NBA level. Just because Lebron became great 3-4 years in doesn't means we should lie, erase his typically bad teenage star years.

Lebron James was born in December and Wemby is born in January. They were not the same age at all as rookies. A year difference.

When Lebron James was Wemby's age he was in his 2nd season, and was not a scrub in the slightest. He a top 10-15 player in the league. I think you're a bit confused on the timeline.

Yes, James was inefficient as a rookie, though Wemby is nearly as inefficient and plays in a more efficient era.

I think the point people are trying to make is that you're comparing a straight out of HS rookie to a one and done rookie. Not quite the same.


Lebron James was a borderline top 5 player in 2006. You're comparing James to himself, in 2006 he was nowhere near as good as 08-10 but he was still objectively speaking a first team all nba caliber player. If James never got better than his 06 version he would still be a hall of famer very easily.

Wemby isn't even one and done. Like Luka he played 3-4 season in professional europe league teams. Professional training and some game time.

[TheGOATWill]

I'll admit, last night was only the 2nd time I watched him. Is the conditioning still shaky two months in...sure. Did AD, who never pushes anyone around, push him around some...he did. Does he look a little terrified of Popovich...what rookie wouldn't. I love everything I saw. I still think his likely career arc is more refined Giannis.

[DwayneSchintzus]

God, I love this thread.

[LAvision]

This is definitely going to become a classic.

[Drakeem]

Sometimes I have to remember that not everyone who posts is arguing in good faith or has the knowledge to put together a real argument. This kid is special and if you don't see it, I'd just rather not discuss basketball with you.

[The Master]

Wembanyama. I'm concerned.

He may be actually even better than advertised.

19.6 PPG, 10.9 RPG, 3.5 APG, 4.2 BPG, 27.9 MPG, 56.4 TS% in the last 11 games since he started to play as a center.

[lebootz21]

No hate, just love.

But this is a reactionary thread. All players have cold streaks during the season, rookies tend to have more. He'll be fine.

This is not a reactionary thread. Shooting is one of the hardest things to improve. It took Jason Kidd his entire career to learn this craft: He only became a good shooter under the legendary Mavs shooting coach.

Wembanyama needs to be more like Hakeem and less like Pozingis.

[_jin]

No hate, just love.

But this is a reactionary thread. All players have cold streaks during the season, rookies tend to have more. He'll be fine.

This is not a reactionary thread. Shooting is one of the hardest things to improve. It took Jason Kidd his entire career to learn this craft: He only became a good shooter under the legendary Mavs shooting coach.

Wembanyama needs to be more like Hakeem and less like Pozingis.

? Porzingis is leading the league in all post-up stats

[Rust_Cohle]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=3E6ZZm9TEJ86uliqnu99pw

[GrandTheftRondo]

The way in which his length frightens people and allows him to get to shoots opponents think he has no chance of getting is something else.

I’m seriously not sure how many blocks per game he might have the potential to average. It could be something epic

[Ursusamericanus]

He's obviously special and should be just fine, assuming he stays healthy. The shot-blocking is fantastic, and I like his shot mechanics. Of course, his base and frame are thin, but they're going to take their time with that.

Beyond the skills on the court, he has a good head on his shoulders and seems well-adjusted and mature for his age. Going to be really exciting following his career. I see the GOAT potential.