Curry has dominated this era, but would get crushed in the 90's

[Ainosterhaspie]

I'm not asking you to take my word for it.

Listen to the players, coaches, journalists who covered the 90s era and the modern era.

The 90s were not a great time for players who's game were built on skill or finesse or off ball movement.

Rule changes have NBA back in the fast lane

Doug Collins shook his head.

"Without those rule changes, I'm sure we're not at this point," said the former player and coach-turned broadcaster. "Just the no hand-checking rule alone brought so much speed and penetration and cutting back into the game. Before, if a guy tried to go through the lane, it was — bam! — you stop him.

Chron -- 2006

The players and coaches lie and/or have foggy memory, the game footage doesn't, and it doesn't show what they claim without heavy cherry picking.

[dhsilv2]

Watch on YouTube

This is about as perfect an example we have of what would happen if a team took a 90's approach to guarding Steph.

We see hand checking. We see classic NBA, Stockton and Malone style pick and roll and we see what happens.

1. We see steph just flat out shooting over the screen. There was nothing to stop this in the 90's.
2. We see steph picking the celtics apart in the mid range, where guards lived in the 90's. Those shots aren't new.
3. Maybe steph doesn't get to the rim like this, but when you set pick and rolls with big men...you'll get to the rim more.

What i can't seem to find right now is a good video showing how much contact and how often Curry will set off ball screens today against big men. It's always videos of him shooting. But I want to hammer home better how much of a different type of player Curry is than he's getting discussed.

Curry actively WANTS to get physical off ball. I can't really let this important piece go as it's what makes him really unlike any 90's small scoring guard.

[Lenneth]

I'm not asking you to take my word for it.

Listen to the players, coaches, journalists who covered the 90s era and the modern era.

The 90s were not a great time for players who's game were built on skill or finesse or off ball movement.

Rule changes have NBA back in the fast lane

Doug Collins shook his head.

"Without those rule changes, I'm sure we're not at this point," said the former player and coach-turned broadcaster. "Just the no hand-checking rule alone brought so much speed and penetration and cutting back into the game. Before, if a guy tried to go through the lane, it was — bam! — you stop him.

Chron -- 2006

The players and coaches lie and/or have foggy memory, the game footage doesn't, and it doesn't show what they claim without heavy cherry picking.

And the quote he used is from 2006, before Curry even entered the league.

[Jamaaliver]

I think the point dhsilv is trying to drive home is that this really isn't salient to a discussion of Curry.

That dude changes his argument every other day.






In March:

The defense wasn't brutal.

In April:

There were some brutal plays.

...none of this was enough to impact someone like Curry.

[Jamaaliver]

And the quote he used is from 2006, before Curry even entered the league.

Exactly.

The NBA changed the rules to open up scoring years before Curry got here.

Because offenses cratered in the 90s.

[tsherkin]

I think the point dhsilv is trying to drive home is that this really isn't salient to a discussion of Curry.

That dude changes his argument every other day.

I can't speak much more than I have to dhsilv's side of things. What I do know is that I watched a screaming ass-ton of 80s and 90s ball, and the type of physicality people were talking about really wasn't a thing most of the time. The Bad Boys in the playoffs with MJ? Sure. Philly/Boston in the 80s postseason? Sure. As we move into the late 90s, specifically with the Knicks and the Heat? Sure. But your average game was pretty wide open, not a ton of bad fouls, not a ton of aggressive pulling/grabbing or anything like that. It got worse in the early 2000s and culminated in the Malice at the Palace and all that. Jermaine O'neal being a screaming idiot and knocking out a fan wasn't good at all, certainly.

But there's this mythos about the game at the time which people advance today and it is pure fiction. It wasn't the Wild West or the WWE in these earlier eras, it's just pure fantasy. And there were guys out there of various sizes and styles of play who got stuff done just fine. And it's a bit exhausting to deal with people who either never watched ball at the time or who are stuck in their nostalgia and only remember, you know, like JVG riding Alonzo Mourning's leg like an annoying dog. xD It happened, but it wasn't common stuff. And it was considerably more prevalent in the playoffs than in the RS, and it had more to do with slashers than anything else.

[dhsilv2]

I think the point dhsilv is trying to drive home is that this really isn't salient to a discussion of Curry.

That dude changes his argument every other day.






In March:

The defense wasn't brutal.

In April:

There were some brutal plays.

...none of this was enough to impact someone like Curry.

These are saying the same thing for the love of god.

Just because there were some brutal plays...that were not basketball, doesn't mean the defense was brutal.

If I punched you in the face, that would be brutal. You'd be the first person I'd have ever hit in the face in my life. I'm not a brutal person.

[Lenneth]

And the quote he used is from 2006, before Curry even entered the league.

Exactly.

The NBA changed the rules to open up scoring years before Curry got here.

Because offenses cratered in the 90s.

First, you asked people to listen to old people's quotes to convince them that Curry couldn't play in the 90s. Yet you brought up a 20-year-old quote before Curry entered the league.

Second, that quote/article was made after 2005-2006 season. It mentioned how the rule change opened up the scoring, yet it's more toward deadball era of 00's.

2005-2006: 97.0 pts / 45.4% FG / 35.8% 3pts / 53.6% TS. The worse scoring yeas in 90's (other than lockout year) were

Only two years in 90's (other than the lockout era) had worse scoring average.

97: 96.9 pts / 45.5% FG /36.0% 3pts / 53.6% TS
98: 95.6 pts / 45.0% FG / 34.6% 3pts / 52.4% TS

No scoring was opened up years before Curry got here. The rule change didn't really change the scoring, shooting %, or accuracy. As a matter of fact, until Curry won his first championship and MVP, the scoring and shooting % remained pretty much the same. The scoring really didn't jump til 18-19 when Curry already won two MVPs and three championships.

07: 98.7 pts / 45.8% FG / 35.8% 3pts / 54.1% TS
08: 99.9 pts / 45.7% FG / 36.2% 3pts / 54.0% TS
09: 100 pts / 45.9% FG / 36.7% 3pts / 54.4% TS
10: 100.4 pts / 46.1% FG / 35.5% 3pts / 54.3% TS
11: 99.6 pts / 45.9% FG / 35.8% 3pts / 54.1% TS
12: 96.3 pts / 44.8% FG / 34.9% 3pts / 52.7% TS (Lockout season)
13: 98.1 pts / 45.3% FG / 35.9% 3pts / 53.5% TS
14: 101 pts / 45.4% FG / 36.0% 3pts / 54.1% TS
15: 100 pts / 44.9% FG / 35.0% 3pts / 53.4% TS (Curry's first MVP/championship)
16: 102.7 pts / 45.2% FG / 35.4% 3pts / 54.1% TS
17: 105.6 pts / 45.7% FG / 36.2% 3pts / 55.2% TS
18: 106.3 pts / 46.0% FG / 36.2% 3pts / 55.6% TS
19: 111.2 pts / 46.1% FG / 35.8% 3pts / 56.0% TS

24: 114.2 pts / 47.4% FG / 36.6% 3pts / 58.0% TS

But 90's defense was tougher? Till 95, the league average was higher than Curry's first MVP/champion season.

90: 107.0 pts / 47.4% FG / 32.0% 3pts / 53.7% TS
91: 106.3 pts / 47.2% FG / 33.1% 3pts / 53.4% TS
92: 105.5 pts / 47.3% FG / 33.6% 3pts / 53.1% TS
93: 105.3 pts / 46.6% FG / 33.3% 3pts / 53.6% TS
94: 101.5 pts / 46.6% FG / 35.9% 3pts / 52.8% TS
95: 101.4 pts / 46.2% FG / 36.7% 3pts / 54.3% TS
96: 99.5 pts / 45.5% FG / 36.0% 3pts/ 53.6% TS

The mystical defense of 90's really didn't exist, and many people confuse the deadball era of 00's as 90's era. Curry would be dominating 90's.

[Clyde Frazier]

Can't get much more embarrassing than threads like these

[Mazter]

Has the bar for dominating been lowered for Curry to jump over it?

I mean, yeah, he had a successful career but throughout they years you could see that it was highly depended of a set of events that had nothing to do with him.

2014: 1st round exit
* Mark Jackson fired despite the warriors winning 50 first time in 20 years, Kerr hired
2015: Love and Irving injured on Cavs, championship, below average numbers Curry, Iggy Finals MVP
2016: Everybody healthy, first superstar to blow a 3-1 lead in the Finals
* Green approaches front office to acquire Durant
2017: Durant added and takes Finals MVP from him, Championship
2018: Durant added and takes Finals MVP from him, Championship
2019: Thompson and Durant injured, loses 4-2 in Finals
* front office sets up FA Durant to a sign and trade to acquire Wiggins
2020: Thompson and Curry self out, missses play offs
*Iguodala was traded to the Heat and helps Butler to his first Finals, his 6th consecutive
2021: Thompson still injured, missed playoffs
2022: Iguodala and Thompson return, Wiggins has All Star season, Championship
2023: Iguodala injures and retires after the season, 2nd round exit against Lakers
2024: Missed the play offs
2025: No Thompson, losing season, Butler acquired for Wiggins and started winning....
* 3P% from 2014-2025 with Green on court 43.7%, off court 38.5%

Great career, yeah, in a dominating fashion, not so much

[WarriorGM]

Has the bar for dominating been lowered for Curry to jump over it?

I mean, yeah, he had a successful career but throughout they years you could see that it was highly depended of a set of events that had nothing to do with him.

2014: 1st round exit
* Mark Jackson fired despite the warriors winning 50 first time in 20 years, Kerr hired
2015: Love and Irving injured on Cavs, championship, below average numbers Curry, Iggy Finals MVP
2016: Everybody healthy, first superstar to blow a 3-1 lead in the Finals
* Green approaches front office to acquire Durant
2017: Durant added and takes Finals MVP from him, Championship
2018: Durant added and takes Finals MVP from him, Championship
2019: Thompson and Durant injured, loses 4-2 in Finals
* front office sets up FA Durant to a sign and trade to acquire Wiggins
2020: Thompson and Curry self out, missses play offs
*Iguodala was traded to the Heat and helps Butler to his first Finals, his 6th consecutive
2021: Thompson still injured, missed playoffs
2022: Iguodala and Thompson return, Wiggins has All Star season, Championship
2023: Iguodala injures and retires after the season, 2nd round exit against Lakers
2024: Missed the play offs
2025: No Thompson, losing season, Butler acquired for Wiggins and started winning....
* 3P% from 2014-2025 with Green on court 43.7%, off court 38.5%

Great career, yeah, in a dominating fashion, not so much

All the above shows is the value you place on dumb narratives from media and the narratives you create for yourself similar to the narrative of this thread.

Are we supposed to believe 11 FMVP voters over record setting seasons that have never been done before? You taking 3 FMVPs that were given to someone else as evidence over 3 consecutive 67-win seasons?

Hilarious how playing with about to retire 38 year old Iguodala and post-injuries Thompson is worth mentioning as reasons his success shouldn't be considered impressive.

The almost immediate flip-flop on Wiggins is cringe too. You cannot seem to make up your mind if having him around made Curry's accomplishments less impressive or not. So is 35 year old Butler now reason enough to dismiss anything 37 year old Curry does? It seems no matter who Curry plays with, if he finds success, you'll find a reason to attribute it to someone else.

The pattern of disingenuous takes shows the bankruptcy of the arguments against Curry.

[Iwasawitness]

I think the point dhsilv is trying to drive home is that this really isn't salient to a discussion of Curry.

That dude changes his argument every other day.






In March:

The defense wasn't brutal.

In April:

There were some brutal plays.

...none of this was enough to impact someone like Curry.

How does this qualify as “changing an argument”?

[Iwasawitness]

Has the bar for dominating been lowered for Curry to jump over it?

I mean, yeah, he had a successful career but throughout they years you could see that it was highly depended of a set of events that had nothing to do with him.

2014: 1st round exit
* Mark Jackson fired despite the warriors winning 50 first time in 20 years, Kerr hired
2015: Love and Irving injured on Cavs, championship, below average numbers Curry, Iggy Finals MVP
2016: Everybody healthy, first superstar to blow a 3-1 lead in the Finals
* Green approaches front office to acquire Durant
2017: Durant added and takes Finals MVP from him, Championship
2018: Durant added and takes Finals MVP from him, Championship
2019: Thompson and Durant injured, loses 4-2 in Finals
* front office sets up FA Durant to a sign and trade to acquire Wiggins
2020: Thompson and Curry self out, missses play offs
*Iguodala was traded to the Heat and helps Butler to his first Finals, his 6th consecutive
2021: Thompson still injured, missed playoffs
2022: Iguodala and Thompson return, Wiggins has All Star season, Championship
2023: Iguodala injures and retires after the season, 2nd round exit against Lakers
2024: Missed the play offs
2025: No Thompson, losing season, Butler acquired for Wiggins and started winning....
* 3P% from 2014-2025 with Green on court 43.7%, off court 38.5%

Great career, yeah, in a dominating fashion, not so much

All the above shows is the value you place on dumb narratives from media and the narratives you create for yourself similar to the narrative of this thread.

Are we supposed to believe 11 FMVP voters over record setting seasons that have never been done before? You taking 3 FMVPs that were given to someone else as evidence over 3 consecutive 67-win seasons?

Hilarious how playing with about to retire 38 year old Iguodala and post-injuries Thompson is worth mentioning as reasons his success shouldn't be considered impressive.

The almost immediate flip-flop on Wiggins is cringe too. You cannot seem to make up your mind if having him around made Curry's accomplishments less impressive or not. So is 35 year old Butler now reason enough to dismiss anything 37 year old Curry does? It seems no matter who Curry plays with, if he finds success, you'll find a reason to attribute it to someone else.

The pattern of disingenuous takes shows the bankruptcy of the arguments against Curry.

I’m surprised you didn’t point out the most laughable part about his post: where he said everyone was healthy for the Warriors in the 2016 finals. My team won that series and even I’m willing to admit the Warriors were definitely not fully healthy.

[michaelm]

Sorry but Curry has not dominated any era. His team during 2015-2020 did, but not him.

This isn't a sensible comment. You're talking about a repeat MVP, the best shooter in league history, he even led the league in SPG one year. Pair of scoring titles.

He was definitely a dominant player. You'd have to be in aggressive denial to try and ignore that.

A large part of Steph being good is that good to great teams could be and were built around him. Unfair KD teamed up with him, Yada Yada Yada, but KD was the most effective he has ever been next to Curry.

And there are only team achievements in 5 on 5 basketball when it comes down to it in any case.

[LakerLegend]

The lack of physicality didn't just help Curry directly, it helps an entire team on the offensive end in terms of freedom of movement. Easier to get to different spots on the floor to set screens, maintain a motion offense making harder for defenses etc because no one can grab, pull, and push you.

Warriors offense couldn't exist under the real rules.

[RoyceDa59]

I firmly believe that the every NBA athlete throughout history would do better two decades earlier. Curry would absolutely roast the nineties.

[dhsilv2]

The lack of physicality didn't just help Curry directly, it helps an entire team on the offensive end in terms of freedom of movement. Easier to get to different spots on the floor to set screens, maintain a motion offense making harder for defenses etc because no one can grab, pull, and push you.

Warriors offense couldn't exist under the real rules.

Grabbing guys or pushing guys who are moving, was always illegal dude. Freedom of movement is mostly around the ball handler. That isn't something the Warriors use a lot of.

Seriously...you're talking about the wrong team and the wrong player for this 90's stuff.

[Iwasawitness]

The lack of physicality didn't just help Curry directly, it helps an entire team on the offensive end in terms of freedom of movement. Easier to get to different spots on the floor to set screens, maintain a motion offense making harder for defenses etc because no one can grab, pull, and push you.

Warriors offense couldn't exist under the real rules.

Nothing you are saying here is consistent with reality.

[Capn'O]

Y'all do realize that there was a player named Wardell Stephen Curry who played in the 90s, wasn't as good or as physical as the current Wardell Stephen Curry, and he did not get crushed, right?

Watch on YouTube

Steph would have absolutely dominated. As he does today.

[a8bil]

I think the point dhsilv is trying to drive home is that this really isn't salient to a discussion of Curry.

That dude changes his argument every other day.

I can't speak much more than I have to dhsilv's side of things. What I do know is that I watched a screaming ass-ton of 80s and 90s ball, and the type of physicality people were talking about really wasn't a thing most of the time. The Bad Boys in the playoffs with MJ? Sure. Philly/Boston in the 80s postseason? Sure. As we move into the late 90s, specifically with the Knicks and the Heat? Sure. But your average game was pretty wide open, not a ton of bad fouls, not a ton of aggressive pulling/grabbing or anything like that. It got worse in the early 2000s and culminated in the Malice at the Palace and all that. Jermaine O'neal being a screaming idiot and knocking out a fan wasn't good at all, certainly.

But there's this mythos about the game at the time which people advance today and it is pure fiction. It wasn't the Wild West or the WWE in these earlier eras, it's just pure fantasy. And there were guys out there of various sizes and styles of play who got stuff done just fine. And it's a bit exhausting to deal with people who either never watched ball at the time or who are stuck in their nostalgia and only remember, you know, like JVG riding Alonzo Mourning's leg like an annoying dog. xD It happened, but it wasn't common stuff. And it was considerably more prevalent in the playoffs than in the RS, and it had more to do with slashers than anything else.

So true...my favorite player in that era was Kevin Johnson. He slashing and dunking in every game, and he was not much more than 6'1" and 190 lbs. He does have a funny story of Barkley hip checking him in to the first row, but that was an intentional hack by chuck to avoid being dunked on by KJ. There were so many smaller PGs that excelled in that era (KJ, Isiah, Price, Cheeks, Stockton, Hardaway) to accept the premise that it was so rough that current star players would not have excelled then as well.