2025 NBA Preseason Multi-Game Thread! (October 2-17)

[SlimShady83]

Kessler would have had a triple-double, but he was subbed out in the 4th quarter. He's decided he can pass and shoot now.

C'mon man just trade Kessler to the Lakers, complete the rebuild and trade both Kessler/Lauri already

[MMyhre]

Cade and Duren pick and roll looking good here, it's against the Wizards but still, tough to defend that especially now that Cade will likely be a better 3pt shooter/shooter in general. I am expecting Cade to be a superstar this season by a comfortable margin. If he had a 3pt shot they beat the Knicks last year, so I am sure he has been working on it, and it has looked great in preseason.

I also looked at his shot profile and understood why his game fell a little bit apart last postseason, but it's easy adjustments to make for a player of his skill. His shot profile in the regular season was a lot of 3-10 ft shots, which he did at a really high level, but I have looked at other profiles and typically this is a low % shot because its usually toughly contested. So that fell a bit apart in the postseason and he shot only 43.8 % from there, and that was his highest % shot taken so your offense will naturally be less effective. He got to the rim a decent amount of times, and finished solid not great.

So when his two favorite shots, the three ball and the 3-10 footer, are tough shots and did not fall for him due to his three ball not being good enough yet, he did not have enough ability on the other shots to fall back on. Being able to mix it up on offense is a huge skill, and he just didn't have enough impulses or instincts to go for more rim shots, 10-16 ft shots and 16-23 ft short mid and long midrange game to fall back on, because he didn't have enough reps and skill/flow/confidence on these shots to effectively use it in the playoffs.

What makes me so sure that Cade will be good at these shots this year? Well he already had decent percentages from there in the regular season, so all he needs is to put a little bit more work in from these areas like the short mid-range like KD and Shai, so he has effective offense available to him if his other shots are not falling, and force more shots closer to the rim to get higher % looks for himself. Shai was something ridiculous like 63 % from the short mid-range uncontested, so if you get good at these shots you are very hard to shut down in the playoffs.

Cade has size, strength, length and athleticism with great handles, he can get to where he wants and finish, he just needs to be more complete in terms of where he can score from, and he will be a legit superstar main option. I think he will take that step this year, and from the eye test he looks ready to be one of the upper elite players. He also seems to have improved his playmaking, a lot of beautiful one handed passes for lobs or bullet passes across the court to the corner 3pt shooter. He is just a superstar now, I think people will realize sooner than later.

Not sure if I should overreact to this Kyshawn George game or not. Didn't know he was this comfortable driving the ball and playmaking. Combine this with the fact that he is a two way player and it's interesting. Still should bulk up a little bit, I guess he could play more like a quicker help defender/better perimeter coverage on defense without more size, but it would help him take contact and be more powerful both ways.

The Wizards are going to be a mess until the coach makes the hierarchy clear, to me it just seems like they are taking turns trying to score individually. Letting a slowly washed up, selfish and chubby looking CJ McCollum take away shots and development from George, Sarr & Tre Johnson is not a situation I would want to be in.

I don't like the way he never looks to set up any of the young guys, always looking to score and get his own points first. I have not seen him do one pick and roll where he lobs it to Sarr for example, it was actually Middleton looking for Sarr in deep positions in the first game. It's a terrible fit with him and they just need to get rid of him somehow or coach him tougher. He took 19.5 field goals per 36 minutes last march which would tie him for sixth place in the NBA, with Nikola Jokic, who he probably thinks he is as good as. This coach seems kind of ass considering how little he is trying to get Tre Johnson involved in the offense/finding confidence, so I bet CJ will be allowed to have super high fga to start the season..

Wizards will get a good draft pick at least, they will be bad.

[MMyhre]

Zion looks unstoppable driving to the rim, and he made some tough short range jumpers as well, his playmaking and disruption levels looking for steals on defense looks decent as well, a little too many turnovers but he is causing a lot of havoc on drives so that's to be expected. An underrated part of his game is how good he is at these 3-10 foot jumpers, he improved his percentage by 10.5 % from 3-10 ft last year, up to over 50 % which is a number I have not seen anyone match. Prime Shaq was 45 % from 3-10 feet, I can't find anything above 45 % from prime LeBron either but old man LeBron in 22-23 has one season of 50.6 % from 3-10 ft, Wade peaked at 48.1 % for some references...

He might be better from there this year considering he is more athletic this year, which would make him borderline unstoppable offensively due to how many shots he gets at the rim at 65-70 % or better efficiency, and now adding a second option with these jump shots or high leaping layup 3-10 ft shots at 51 % + something?

If Murphy can get to around 40 % on elite three point makes per game (he was 22nd at 3 per game last year on 36.1 %) him and Zion are really hard to shut down with their capacity to get inside, improved playmaking and Murphys outside threat. Murphy already had a month with 3.4 makes on 40.7 % 3pt, which would put him in the top 10 in makes on average last season, with the second best % behind Malik Beasley. A bit inconsistent start to the preseason there though.

Jeremiah Fears might be a positive NBA player already this season, contributing as a 6th man off the bench. Ironically Fears is fearless driving to the rim, with great speed and athleticism, tough shot making potential. He lacks playmaking and a three pointer, so it depends how quickly he can develop these things. I love how he isn't afraid to fail and try, that's how you get better. It's actually what I expected Tre Johnson to play like, but he has been much more timid and surprisingly passive. I think it's the lack of quickness that Fears has that makes Johnson a bit overwhelmed because he is much slower, you kind of need to figure out how to get into a rhythm when you can't just blow by your defender like Fears can, and Johnson is pretty skinny so he will get bullied until he starts to play with more self-belief, intent and aggressiveness and poise.

Franz Wagner was just getting destroyed off the dribble, I have heard that he is a good defender but he was getting torched off the dribble by Zion and Murphy, has his growth to 6-10 +/- made it tougher to keep up on the perimeter? Sure looks like it. And I swear to god, Banchero might be 6-11 now. Yves Missi has been measured to 6'10.75 barefoot, and Paolo looked visibly taller than him in the paint. Idk if Magic fans can verify this, but the man is just huge.

On offense Wagner looks ready to make a leap, we'll see how consistent the jump shot is, but his size, strength and top speed makes him a tough cover on fast breaks and drives. He finished 73.1 % of his rim attempts last year, so if that number goes up and he hits threes, and keeps his short mid range game at 48 % he will be very tough to guard. He is not a vertical athlete, but he uses his big body extremely well when driving and finishing at the rim, getting his body into shot blockers so they can't catch his shot.

For Paolo idk, stats looked good but I only have highlights, one play where he had a clean look at a three pointer, but pump fakes and goes into a contested two pointer that clanks the rim made me cringe a bit. It's all about shot selection and decision making for him. He needs to realize how big he is and just pound people like a bigger Carmelo Anthony. He had one play where he just used his size to get through a skinny NOLA defender and got a layup, more of that.

[MMyhre]

Risacher is really fast for his size, even if his jumping ability is subpar. He gets some easy points just using his speed to get to the paint before defenses can rotate. It was against the Rockets backups, but he showed a lot of confidence in his ability to score points.

Porzingis looks fresher in terms of his movement, he is moving well out there.

Watching Trae Young unable to lead 3 out of 5 Hawks starters, with decent replacements in Walker and Okongwu and their whole rotation available at home, to a win in 3 quarters against Reed Sheppard who totally outplays him, just further proves how overrated this guy is. Imagine Shai losing to the Rockets missing 10 of their best players with Hartenstein, Dort, Cason Wallace & Caruso & getting outplayed by a second year backup point guard who averaged 12 minutes last season. The Rockets had EIGHT players playing the whole game, hahaha.

If I read one more Trae Young is underrated or actually top 10, I will just cringe out at this point. He was -18 in just 28 minutes with Risacher and Porzingis having great games around him as well. Talk about high impact, if the Hawks are smart they put all their efforts into making Jalen Johnson the franchise player, and make Trae Young play solid point guard play and take smart shots within the offense. He has declined as a player in what should be his peak years, and he likely doesn't even realize it because of his arrogance. You don't work hard you don't get the rewards, coasting on talent never takes you far.

I want you guys to take a look at Trae Young in college, and compare the speed, quickness and athleticism, and shot making ability he has at this point to now. It's a night and day difference, he was so quick and athletic, expressive and skillful with faster decision making in college, he got to the rim or his spots at will. If he had that still, he would have been great. I am not american so I don't pay as much attention to college stuff, so when I watched his college highlights recently I was in awe of his ability, he had 1.7 steals and much higher overall intensity on both ends as well. His athletic decline cannot be understated, he is weak, short in both height and length with bad athleticism. That just doesn't allow you to create both good and reliable looks for yourself off the dribble, but it makes your dribble penetration worse and the defense we all know is pathetic. I get vibes of a little bit of a complacent guy who still thinks he is as good as he once was. I didn't like his response to Beverley because I feel like it's a waste of energy, are you so insecure in yourself that you need to take so much energy and time out of your life to make a video to respond? You just put yourself down to his level, a truly confident man will let his game speak for itself, there is no need to waste energy and time on people like Beverley and their negative energy. If you truly believe in yourself with a strong self-belief and low insecurities, you will push through and prove them wrong with your gameplay.

I still believe the Hawks will have a solid season, but it's going to have to come from Jalen Johnson taking steps and having more usage as the main guy and being healthy, with Risacher and Daniels developing as well. Not from Trae Young forcing stuff and trying to get stats, but playing within the offense and using the pressure the other guys will create to increase his own efficiency, while trying to get better looks for them and limiting his turnovers by further improving himself as a playmaker. Right now he is just a poor mans version of a Curry/Nash hybrid that takes too many bad shots and has too many turnovers. I am just not sure Trae Young will make this transition smoothly, he was 14th in the NBA in field goals attempted with poor efficiency in 3pters at 34 % and a career low in 2pters at 47.4 % and he had some god awful shooting games last season. To be fair, he has in the two first games taken closer to 14-15 fga per 36 minutes with Johnson & Daniels out there, but somehow gone 4-19 from 3pt for 21 % with better teammates around him in 3 games, with one 0-8 3pt performance in a game Jalen Johnson was dominating.

I am not watching the full games because it's night here, just highlights the morning after, so idk if he is just taking bad shots like contested stepback threes off the dribble, or missing open looks, but that's not the development you would think a "star" player would have with more offensive help around him.

If you look at per 36 minutes, his stats last season was not even much better than his rookie season. It's basically a little bit more points and assists but worse 2pt % and more turnovers, 0.14 % better from three and a little bit more free throw attempts and efficiency, 0.28 ts % more, 1.3 per, 0.9 bpm...

Compare that to another very good rookie point guard:

Damian Lillard had per 36 in his age 28 season compared to his age 22 rookie season more points by 8.4, assists 1, steals 0,3, free throws made and % by 2.9 and 0.68 %, 0.9 more 3pt makes and 2pt % by 0.30 % on a lot more makes... ts % up by 0.42 %, 7.3 per, 6.1 bpm and mind you in the next season he made another leap up to 62.7 ts % on even more three point volume and overall stats... Trae Young peaked at 23 and it's a shame, it doesn't seem like he has the ability to get back his athleticism or even just his skill? How is this possible if not for a a lazy & complacent lifestyle? I can't find anything about a major injury.

I am not going to jump to conclusions just off preseason games, but I really expected Trae Young to thrive off better teammates, we'll see if he does better long term, because he has a chance to be really impactful offensively again like in 22-23 if he plays smart basketball.

Sheppard is someone I am also looking at, I don't think people realize how many steals this guy had in college - 3.4 steals per 40 minutes. He had a crazy steal where he just started running towards where he predicted Kennard was going to pass it and snatched it easily and got a layup. Smart and tough player, if the playmaking, shot creation and defense keeps improving like this.. cool player and he just dad dicked Trae Young head to head and had 2 blocks on him, which is hilarious. I think he will have a fine season and he just turned 21.

Josh Okogie is also a truck and a tough player both ways. JD Davison has had nice games this preseason. The Rockets are **** stacked.

[MMyhre]

Got a feeling the Hornets might be a really good team this year, hope they have no injuries, well that with every team.

Really good is pushing it, but they can outshoot anyone if they get hot, and maybe if LaMelo and Miller both take their games to the next level and stay healthy. A lot of what if's.

I don't see them defending or being consistent enough to be really good, maybe if Diabate starts and they all lock in defensively, because his defensive potential is higher than Kalkbrenners.

I just don't see LaMelo Ball locking in defensively and hounding guards for 82 games, they seem to play around, laugh and play offensive ball. Maybe I am wrong..

Lamelo is definitely trying a lot harder on defense, he still makes mistakes, but he is trying. Offensively, he is still too loose with the ball sometimes. The coach is on him but the catch is that some of the best plays are because of his loose creativity. It's a balancing act, but taking injuries into account, Ball is definitely an unknown commodity on how valuable he might be.

The front office aren't trying to win anything, they bought the team and only called Miller untouchable in trades. They are building their own thing, collecting assets and are happy to "patiently build". The centre rotation is only going to work if Moussa or Kalkbrenner makes a miraculous unexpected jump. They will cash in their assets when they think the team has a serious chance at competing in the playoffs.

If the current core show they can do that, they will look to invest in support. Otherwise I could see Lamelo shopped by the end of the year.

Okay that's interesting. I think both your centers has potential honestly. Kalkbrenner as the classic shotblocking/roaming presence big with offensive upside and a developing 3pt shot, and Diabate as the more mobile big that can be all over the place and defend multiple positions, probably just a lob threat offensively/clean up guy but a decent one at that. The problem with Kalkbrenner is that he needs elite perimeter defense to cover for his mobility weaknesses, I just see guys like Fox, Amen T, Zion etc being way too fast for him to reach unless good perimeter defense/help d can lead them into his space.

Diabate is ridiculous in terms of his combination of strength, length and athleticism, I would say he is one of the most powerful players in the NBA right now and he is just 23. He was manhandling the small Thunder team when I watched, and I see he has had games with 10 offensive rebounds in 25 minutes last year, and he has surely gotten stronger and bigger in the offseason.

So yeah the Hornets could be insane if they get a top pick in a decent draft next year, but I actually think they might have too much talent on the roster right now to lose that much compared to the Jazz, Wizards, Kings, Suns etc.

[MMyhre]

Buzelis has such a good motor and combination of speed, size and jumping ability. Always runs hard on fastbreaks, very tough to stop when he gets going downhill. He is going to get to the rim and finish a lot more this season, has looked great all preseason. If he starts doing crossovers and hitting threes reliably as well.. great block instincts, active guy on both ends.. just gotta work on his rebounding and playmaking. He is one of the more obvious sophomore leaps I have ever seen and he just turned 21.

I think Giddey is playing well, he has become a better scorer. Always going to be targeted on defense but he has high effort, if you could pair him up with an elite defensive team he could work as a pg in a winning situation. I just don't see them doing much more than a low playoff seed this year due to defensive issues, but they are competing hard out there, but Vukcevic and Collins are just not going to get the job done as your defensive anchors with Giddey and Ayo being exposed on the perimeter.

Solid game from the Wolves main three guys, Randle was exposing the Bulls lack of interior defense and size, just getting easy buckets. Great shot selection, Edwards had a better balance of playmaking and scoring.

It seems like Terrence Shannon Jr and Rob Dillingham may emerge as positive contributors off the bench this season as well, giving me more hope for the Wolves pushing 50 + wins than before. Might take minutes off a struggling Di Vincenzo.

[MMyhre]

Strong finishing from Keyonte George who skies over Jrue, and Holiday showing the signs of aging couldn't really contest George on a drive for a block like he used to. George looks nice here, he can really heat up from three and if he finishes like this at the rim he will make a leap this year alongside his improved decision making and playmaking. 20 pts on 7-11 fg, 3-6 3pt, 3-3 ft, 2 ast/2 to, 2 steals and 1 nasty block with a +11 in 26 minutes. He has earned the starting spot.

Walter Clayton Jr is really bad at moving his feet, positioning and rotating to shooters. Even in just highlights he is always involved in opposing three point shooters getting clean looks and scoring. He does do some good stuff, 5 ast/2 to, 3-5 from 2pt and 2-2 ft, but his 3pt shot has been terrible in preseason and he went 0-4 from downtown yesterday. Will be interesting to see how much he gets to play when Collier returns.

Walker Kessler is a much more complete player than I thought, nice passing all game and even hit Clingan with the spin move off the dribble for a free layup. In one sequence he hits a three, then he blocks Jerami Grant on the three point line then immediately runs down court and gets passed to for a fastbreak dunk. 7'0.25 barefoot by the way, and the Jazz might be more legit this year than I thought.
He almost had a triple double in 26 minutes, 14 pts, 6-9 fg, 1-1 3pt, 1-2 ft, 10 reb (5 oreb), 8 ast/1 to, 2 stl, 2 blk and a +11. I did not see him potentially becoming Jokic light with better defense.. that's some scary potential.

They are using Markkanens size and athleticism much more, and he is feasting in the paint this game.

Taylor Hendricks is tough to stop when he gets the ball cutting to the rim.

Brice Sensabaugh looks in better shape than last year, leaner and faster. He cut to the rim, easily beating his man and dunked it through contact. I don't think he does that last year, combine this with his insane 3pt shooting off the dribble and he is going to score a lot of points this season.

The Jazz struggle to defend the three point line, but somehow they beat a lot of the Blazers starting lineup with their end of bench guys. Portland rely a lot on Avdija and Camara it seems, a bit worrisome that Camara has been out with knee stuff for their playoff ambitions and Avdija left the game with upper back stiffness.

Jerami Grant filled it up, but he has been a more stats than winning impact for a long time, and I don't trust him going 5-12 from three with such high overall impact like this game all year. He had 0 blocks before this game, and was 2-16 from three, 7-19 from 2pt as well.

Shaedon Sharpe 2-9 from three, 3 assists and 4 turnovers, -3. Doesn't seem to be able to put it together.

Clingan and Yang Hansen a combined -13 in 44 mins, probably the worst defensive center rotation in terms of defending the pick & roll and similar mobility demanding actions in the league. Too slow.

[MMyhre]

Reed Sheppard preseason GOAT!!!

Good for him that he had a good game. I thought he looked godawful against the Jazz last week.

Very efficient, lots of defensive playmaking.......godawful ????

To be fair he is better than Trae Young, so he has more expectations on him now.

[kg01]

I am not going to jump to conclusions just off preseason games....

Lies detected.

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

[MMyhre]

I am not going to jump to conclusions just off preseason games....

Lies detected.

Watch on YouTube

Watch this and tell me he is just as good as this now.
In 21-22 he had compared to 24-25 = per +7.1, +0.36 ts %, +0.81 % ws/48, +4.3 ws, +3.1 vorp, +3.8 obpm, +4.7 bpm.
Pure RAPM rank: 21-22: 2# in the NBA on offense. 24-25: 47# in the NBA on offense.
MAMBA rank: 21-22: #1 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: #35 in the NBA on offense.
RAPTOR rank: 21-22: #2 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: Not available.
DARKO rank: 21-22: #2 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: #14 in the NBA on offense.
LEBRON rank: 21-22: #2 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: #14 in the NBA on offense.
And horrible defensively in all of them and barely any improvement there from 22 to 25.
So when his value offensively has fallen so much, his overall value on winning basketball games falls by a lot.

21-22: 28.4 pts on 3.1 3s a game at 38.2 %, 51.2 % 2pt, 90.4 ft %, 46 % fg (41.1 last year with 4.2 less points a game btw) and basically the same assist to turnover ratio as in 24/25.

I don't think it's jumping to any conclusions by pointing out how good he used to be, and that he has a lot to prove this season after a steady decline in what should be his peak years of play. I noticed that the Hawks subreddit was pretty frustrated as well, so it's not just me expecting to see better production. I think he's just lost a step or two and those seconds cost you in such a fast paced and athletic game like the NBA.

[UcanUwill]

It's preseason, but i'm not sold on the Blazers, guess we'll find out soon enough

Not sold on the blazers, man you had them last in the west in your prediction

[SlimShady83]

It's preseason, but i'm not sold on the Blazers, guess we'll find out soon enough

Not sold on the blazers, man you had them last in the west in your prediction

Yep. we'll see, but I did mention through out the thread I'm probably going to eat crow end of the season also like I said above hope I get at least half right lol

[UcanUwill]

It's preseason, but i'm not sold on the Blazers, guess we'll find out soon enough

Not sold on the blazers, man you had them last in the west in your prediction

Yep. we'll see, but I did mention through out the thread I'm probably going to eat crow end of the season also like I said above hope I get at least half right lol

Well, they might not make play offs, but having them last is a b it stupid, I mean we have Utah Jazz. Portland is a bit weird, because some talent is definitely lacking, but they just have winning type of players IMO, guys who actually impact the game. Like Jrue, Avdija, Camara, Klingan, I mean these guys do good things. To me they are like opposite of Kings, Kings have players with better stats, but would I rather have their players... no....

[kg01]

I am not going to jump to conclusions just off preseason games....

Lies detected.

Watch on YouTube

Watch this and tell me he is just as good as this now.
In 21-22 he had compared to 24-25 = per +7.1, +0.36 ts %, +0.81 % ws/48, +4.3 ws, +3.1 vorp, +3.8 obpm, +4.7 bpm.
Pure RAPM rank: 21-22: 2# in the NBA on offense. 24-25: 47# in the NBA on offense.
MAMBA rank: 21-22: #1 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: #35 in the NBA on offense.
RAPTOR rank: 21-22: #2 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: Not available.
DARKO rank: 21-22: #2 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: #14 in the NBA on offense.
LEBRON rank: 21-22: #2 in the NBA on offense. 24-25: #14 in the NBA on offense.
And horrible defensively in all of them and barely any improvement there from 22 to 25.
So when his value offensively has fallen so much, his overall value on winning basketball games falls by a lot.

21-22: 28.4 pts on 3.1 3s a game at 38.2 %, 51.2 % 2pt, 90.4 ft %, 46 % fg (41.1 last year with 4.2 less points a game btw) and basically the same assist to turnover ratio as in 24/25.

I don't think it's jumping to any conclusions by pointing out how good he used to be, and that he has a lot to prove this season after a steady decline in what should be his peak years of play. I noticed that the Hawks subreddit was pretty frustrated as well, so it's not just me expecting to see better production. I think he's just lost a step or two and those seconds cost you in such a fast paced and athletic game like the NBA.

Everyone told him not to play like that anymore. (Pretty sure the Hawks lost that game.)

Now that he doesn’t, everyone pulls up the numbers as evidence of his obvious decline.

[tundraknight]

Why are the Timberwolves playing back to backs in the preseason?

I must be out of the loop because I didn’t know that was a thing.

[SlimShady83]

Why are the Timberwolves playing back to backs in the preseason?

I must be out of the loop because I didn’t know that was a thing.

Someone posted a while back, can't remember who but they said the teams get to choose their own preseason schedule? I don't think that's true, but hopefully someone can confirm

[mkot]

Teams still play like Joel Embiid like he is Joel Embiid. Good sign for the Sixers.

[SlimShady83]

Let's Go Knicks!

[SlimShady83]

Brunson And1 ... I should say And4