Woj: Celtics/Jaylen Brown agree to four-year, $115M million extension

[HoopsterJones]

It’s okay, your prediction on Jaylen looked like ass. Y’all can go all summer clowning the Celtics while the Celtics fans who bumped this thread which is likely gonna be active for a day tops are gonna gloat and rightfully so.

There’s wayyy more negative Celtics threads, far more than anything positive relating to the Celtics on this board. The negative ones seem to have the most replies with gifs and laughters.

The James Harden trade had 2 Ainge threads going on with the Celtics not being a part of the trade. No other team not in the trade had a thread going on about not getting Harden. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

And your prediction a couple years back of the Celtics being a 65+ win team with 4 all stars was way way off. It’s okay to have an opinion and it’s okay to be wrong.

I owned up to saying I was wrong on Jaylen and Jayson Tatum. But I listed out why. The facts were based on their performance, the numbers weren’t good. It’s a show me league. When Tatum signed his extension, I said it was well deserved.

I trashed Derrick White’s extension. Do I see Spurs posters bumping that and complaining Spurs hate? No.

Enjoy your team. You have very good players. Hope they stay in Boston for a long time. Don’t take things said on this board so personal.

Lol nobody is taking this personal but you. Take the L and move on. It’s okay to make a bad prediction but don’t be saying **** like “this is what fuels the general board in making Celtics threads” like wtf? This is a circle jerk thread hating on the Celtics gm and players. Celtics fans should be able to bump and gloat about how so wrong most people in this thread are. And this is gonna last what? A day tops? Y’all have your Celtics hate thread all summer to go on about.

Maybe give 2 young players a year or two before judging them so harshly. Remember what brown and Tatum did without Kyrie in the playoffs the year before

I mean okay? I owned up and admitting that I was wrong last year and this year. Does it affect me personally? No. I’ve even defended Ainge on this board so it’s baffling that all of y’all and ganging up on this. That seems personal. But it’s all good. Enjoy your team.

[PierceFan4ever]

And your prediction a couple years back of the Celtics being a 65+ win team with 4 all stars was way way off. It’s okay to have an opinion and it’s okay to be wrong.

I owned up to saying I was wrong on Jaylen and Jayson Tatum. But I listed out why. The facts were based on their performance, the numbers weren’t good. It’s a show me league. When Tatum signed his extension, I said it was well deserved.

I trashed Derrick White’s extension. Do I see Spurs posters bumping that and complaining Spurs hate? No.

Enjoy your team. You have very good players. Hope they stay in Boston for a long time. Don’t take things said on this board so personal.

Lol nobody is taking this personal but you. Take the L and move on. It’s okay to make a bad prediction but don’t be saying **** like “this is what fuels the general board in making Celtics threads” like wtf? This is a circle jerk thread hating on the Celtics gm and players. Celtics fans should be able to bump and gloat about how so wrong most people in this thread are. And this is gonna last what? A day tops? Y’all have your Celtics hate thread all summer to go on about.

Maybe give 2 young players a year or two before judging them so harshly. Remember what brown and Tatum did without Kyrie in the playoffs the year before

I mean okay? I owned up and admitting that I was wrong last year and this year. Does it affect me personally? No. I’ve even defended Ainge on this board so it’s baffling that all of y’all and ganging up on this. That seems personal. But it’s all good. Enjoy your team.

Nah we’re just having fun with the jokes that y’all provided. Most of us are confused by your “this what fuels the general board hatred towards the Celtics!” take

So what you’re saying Celtics fans who have to read all summer getting trashed on should not be able to gloat every once in a while OR ELSE the general board would be fueled to make more Celtics and Ainge threads in the near future

[HoopsterJones]

Lol nobody is taking this personal but you. Take the L and move on. It’s okay to make a bad prediction but don’t be saying **** like “this is what fuels the general board in making Celtics threads” like wtf? This is a circle jerk thread hating on the Celtics gm and players. Celtics fans should be able to bump and gloat about how so wrong most people in this thread are. And this is gonna last what? A day tops? Y’all have your Celtics hate thread all summer to go on about.

Maybe give 2 young players a year or two before judging them so harshly. Remember what brown and Tatum did without Kyrie in the playoffs the year before

I mean okay? I owned up and admitting that I was wrong last year and this year. Does it affect me personally? No. I’ve even defended Ainge on this board so it’s baffling that all of y’all and ganging up on this. That seems personal. But it’s all good. Enjoy your team.

Nah we’re just having fun with the jokes that y’all provided. Most of us are confused by your “this what fuels the general board hatred towards the Celtics!” take

So what you’re saying Celtics fans who have to read all summer getting trashed on should not be able to gloat every once in a while OR ELSE the general board would be fueled to make more Celtics and Ainge threads in the near future

I’d like to hear your opinion on what the root cause of the perceived hate is then. This is a prime example in my opinion. This thread was bumped LAST year to gloat. And I’m good with that. Bumping it again this year seems excessive. But if that’s what brings Celtics fans joy, have at it.

[Grahf]

Look hindsight is 20/20.

For all these Celtics fans what would your opinion be if a team Other than the Celtics signed a wing player to a $115 million extension after putting up these stats as third year player

25.9 MPG
13 PPG
4.2 RPG
1.4 APG
13.5 PER
54.7 TS%

It’s not like everyone collectively decided to hate on Jaylen Brown because he plays for Ainge and the Celtics. Objectively those stats as a third year player isn’t performing at a level that aligns with a $115m extension regardless of what laundry he’s wearing.

So yes the Celtics did good by signing him to a great contract value in hindsight.

Maybe the lesson is that taking five seconds to look up a stat line from Basketball Reference doesn't qualify you to judge a young player's potential, or to mock the basketball lifer who scouted him for months, drafted him, watched and interacted with him for years, and then decided to give him the extension?

[HoopsterJones]

Look hindsight is 20/20.

For all these Celtics fans what would your opinion be if a team Other than the Celtics signed a wing player to a $115 million extension after putting up these stats as third year player

25.9 MPG
13 PPG
4.2 RPG
1.4 APG
13.5 PER
54.7 TS%

It’s not like everyone collectively decided to hate on Jaylen Brown because he plays for Ainge and the Celtics. Objectively those stats as a third year player isn’t performing at a level that aligns with a $115m extension regardless of what laundry he’s wearing.

So yes the Celtics did good by signing him to a great contract value in hindsight.

Maybe the lesson is that taking five seconds to look up a stat line from Basketball Reference doesn't qualify you to judge a young player's potential, or to mock the basketball lifer who scouted him for months, drafted him, watched and interacted with him for years, and then decided to give him the extension?

I’m qualified. It says so on my LinkedIn bio.

[cl2117]

And your prediction a couple years back of the Celtics being a 65+ win team with 4 all stars was way way off. It’s okay to have an opinion and it’s okay to be wrong.

I owned up to saying I was wrong on Jaylen and Jayson Tatum. But I listed out why. The facts were based on their performance, the numbers weren’t good. It’s a show me league. When Tatum signed his extension, I said it was well deserved.

I trashed Derrick White’s extension. Do I see Spurs posters bumping that and complaining Spurs hate? No.

Enjoy your team. You have very good players. Hope they stay in Boston for a long time. Don’t take things said on this board so personal.

Dude you're the one saying that bumping a thread to highlight how wrong everyone was warrants hate. I think that might be taking things a bit personally.

I guess it's a personal preference thing. I have no problem with bumped threads as long as they're worthy of it. I've been wrong on WAY more than I've been right, I can eat my crow with a smile.

Obviously you’re not reading everything I posted twice before. This thread was already bumped LAST year. The gloating happened LAST year. And posters owned up to it LAST year. That’s all and good and we all moved on.

Somebody decided to bump it again TODAY. To yet again gloat about it TODAY. To bash people about being wrong about it again TODAY. You think everyone is going to sit by and say by golly it’s good to be reminded and ridiculed about this again. And think it will not fuel people’s hate for the Celtics? Think about it.

I've thought about it. I obviously don't take things said on this board as personally as you because I wouldn't have a problem with it.

If it's worthy, I say bump it.

[HoopsterJones]

Dude you're the one saying that bumping a thread to highlight how wrong everyone was warrants hate. I think that might be taking things a bit personally.

I guess it's a personal preference thing. I have no problem with bumped threads as long as they're worthy of it. I've been wrong on WAY more than I've been right, I can eat my crow with a smile.

Obviously you’re not reading everything I posted twice before. This thread was already bumped LAST year. The gloating happened LAST year. And posters owned up to it LAST year. That’s all and good and we all moved on.

Somebody decided to bump it again TODAY. To yet again gloat about it TODAY. To bash people about being wrong about it again TODAY. You think everyone is going to sit by and say by golly it’s good to be reminded and ridiculed about this again. And think it will not fuel people’s hate for the Celtics? Think about it.

I've thought about it. I obviously don't take things said on this board as personally as you because I wouldn't have a problem with it.

If it's worthy, I say bump it.

I take nothing said on this board personally. But I’m flattered no less than 4 Celtics posters oddly decided to give me some attention. Let’s not argue anymore so this doesn’t get locked so you guys can look forward to bumping it again next year.

Now let’s get back to debating which teams sweaty mans is the sweatiest. And Jaylen Brown is mighty sweaty and deserves more than his $115m extension.

[babyjax13]

One of the dumbest moves in recent memory. Ainge has fallen far.

I was wrong.

[Infinite Llamas]

I mean, anyone who watched the Celtics in that playoff run of 2017-18 saw the potential in guys like Brown, Tatum, Rozier...then 2018-19 happens and Kyrie returns and all of those guys suddenly regressed. Flash forward a year or two where any memories of Kyrie have successfully been repressed and all three of those guys are having success. Throw those 2018-19 stats out the window.

Jaylen was a guy who improved every year and he’s getting that automatic Kawhi midrange game now that makes him a very scary player. His passing will come along too. I’ve been a fan of Jaylen ever since they drafted him and people were booing him at the press conference the next day because they wanted Kris Dunn instead. I’m so glad my faith in him has been realized and he’s on the verge of becoming an All-NBA talent.

There is no greater joy in sports than seeing a homegrown player with doubters reach the pinnacle of his profession.

[Grahf]

Look hindsight is 20/20.

For all these Celtics fans what would your opinion be if a team Other than the Celtics signed a wing player to a $115 million extension after putting up these stats as third year player

25.9 MPG
13 PPG
4.2 RPG
1.4 APG
13.5 PER
54.7 TS%

It’s not like everyone collectively decided to hate on Jaylen Brown because he plays for Ainge and the Celtics. Objectively those stats as a third year player isn’t performing at a level that aligns with a $115m extension regardless of what laundry he’s wearing.

So yes the Celtics did good by signing him to a great contract value in hindsight.

Maybe the lesson is that taking five seconds to look up a stat line from Basketball Reference doesn't qualify you to judge a young player's potential, or to mock the basketball lifer who scouted him for months, drafted him, watched and interacted with him for years, and then decided to give him the extension?

I’m qualified. It says so on my LinkedIn bio.

Our LinkedIn bios make all of us look like geniuses. Thankfully, mine doesn't mention the time I had a meltdown when Ainge drafted Tatum over Fultz, or the time I wrote Josh Jackson would be better than Tatum, or my pre-draft prediction that Dennis Smith Jr would be an all-star...

[HoopsterJones]

Maybe the lesson is that taking five seconds to look up a stat line from Basketball Reference doesn't qualify you to judge a young player's potential, or to mock the basketball lifer who scouted him for months, drafted him, watched and interacted with him for years, and then decided to give him the extension?

I’m qualified. It says so on my LinkedIn bio.

Our LinkedIn bios make all of us look like geniuses. Thankfully, mine doesn't mention the time I had a meltdown when Ainge drafted Tatum over Fultz, or the time I wrote Josh Jackson would be better than Tatum, or my pre-draft prediction that Dennis Smith Jr would be an all-star...

I would have whole section dedicated to my devotion to Tyrus Thomas because of how much of an athletic wonder freak he was and would be unstoppable in the NBA. Or my infatuation with Marvin Bagley Jr over Doncic (yes that Luka Doncic). Or Tatum being Rudy Gay 2.0, not my worst prediction but it’s on the team photo.

We all make this wild assessments and rationalize why we made them. Nobody is perfect. Even the professional GMs and Execs don’t hit more than 50% of their moves.

[cl2117]

I’m qualified. It says so on my LinkedIn bio.

Our LinkedIn bios make all of us look like geniuses. Thankfully, mine doesn't mention the time I had a meltdown when Ainge drafted Tatum over Fultz, or the time I wrote Josh Jackson would be better than Tatum, or my pre-draft prediction that Dennis Smith Jr would be an all-star...

I would have whole section dedicated to my devotion to Tyrus Thomas because of how much of an athletic wonder freak he was and would be unstoppable in the NBA. Or my infatuation with Marvin Bagley Jr over Doncic (yes that Luka Doncic). Or Tatum being Rudy Gay 2.0, not my worst prediction but it’s on the team photo.

We all make this wild assessments and rationalize why we made them. Nobody is perfect. Even the professional GMs and Execs don’t hit more than 50% of their moves.

I still think Anthony Randolph is going to be the next KG.....

[HoopsterJones]

Our LinkedIn bios make all of us look like geniuses. Thankfully, mine doesn't mention the time I had a meltdown when Ainge drafted Tatum over Fultz, or the time I wrote Josh Jackson would be better than Tatum, or my pre-draft prediction that Dennis Smith Jr would be an all-star...

I would have whole section dedicated to my devotion to Tyrus Thomas because of how much of an athletic wonder freak he was and would be unstoppable in the NBA. Or my infatuation with Marvin Bagley Jr over Doncic (yes that Luka Doncic). Or Tatum being Rudy Gay 2.0, not my worst prediction but it’s on the team photo.

We all make this wild assessments and rationalize why we made them. Nobody is perfect. Even the professional GMs and Execs don’t hit more than 50% of their moves.

I still think Anthony Randolph is going to be the next KG.....

Not going to lie. I was upset the Bulls acquired him from Denver in the McDermott draft day trade (ugh) and just tossed him over to the Magic for nothing without ever seeing him play a game. I wanted to see this cat play.

[SMTBSI]

Y’all are definitely fueling the Celtics hate with bumping this thread last year when Jaylen broke out AND this year.

That will fuel more hate. If you’re going to complain about the hate the Celtics receive at least allow yourself to be educated on the contributing factors to the perceived hate.

This is bully/abuser logic. We're going to hate on you constantly every chance we get, and when you chirp back, it's proof you deserve the hate. I believe you're reversing cause and effect.

Here's my theory (and I hope, if you actually read it, you will see that it's not purely defensive/reactionary; I really think the cause-and-effect makes sense):

Over the past several seasons, a number of fanbases have had a top tier player leave their team. That's a sensitive event, that always frays folk's nerves. This is totally understandable. I don't blame them one bit for those emotions.

In each case, Ainge and the Celtics have been connected as an interested party to acquire the player. Some of these conversations may have gone pretty deep, while others may have been pretty superficial. The other team, understandably, always wanted one or both of Tatum or Brown (or, far enough back: the BRK picks that became them), and we weren't willing to part with them. As Tatum and Brown have continued to ascend (or, far enough back: as the BRK picks came in at high slots), those fanbases became resentful that we weren't willing to part with them, and so attempted, whether consciously or simply reacting instinctively, to make us "regret it", by pushing the "lol Ainge overvaluing his assets and screwing himself" narrative every chance they got. Misery loves company, and if you're not happy with the fate of your franchise, you can take your mind off of it by making others feel bad as well. This is very human.

Once it had some legs, with every passing big-name trade we failed to get in on, the myth and legend only grew, until it became an instant and-1 factory to parrot, not only here, but on the T&T board, and the Wiretaps as well (I've honestly never seen wiretap posts getting any real amount of and-1's before, except for those LOL'ing at Ainge). At this point, it is simply known that Ainge is a snake who constantly screws himself. No doubt remains on this point among the RealGM hive mind. Some of these posts literally get almost 100 and-1s, just for parroting the talking point, regardless of evidence or context. See: the first couple pages of this thread.

It's gotten so ridiculous and over-the-top, that Celtic fans are now very vocal about pointing it out. And when we do that, posters like you blame us for bringing it on ourselves. And so the cycle continues.

So what I will say in closing is this: the next time you see a post that says something like "lol Ainge screwed himself again" and it has 75 and-1s, and you're about to click to add the 76th, consider the fact that the majority of the Celtic fanbase is very happy with where we're sitting right now. And the next time a Celtic poster points out the ridiculousness and laziness of the narrative, and holds people to their awful takes when they turn out to be awful, consider if you wouldn't have had the same urge if the roles were reversed.

[HoopsterJones]

Y’all are definitely fueling the Celtics hate with bumping this thread last year when Jaylen broke out AND this year.

That will fuel more hate. If you’re going to complain about the hate the Celtics receive at least allow yourself to be educated on the contributing factors to the perceived hate.

This is bully/abuser logic. We're going to hate on you constantly every chance we get, and when you chirp back, it's proof you deserve the hate. I believe you're reversing cause and effect.

Here's my theory (and I hope, if you actually read it, you will see that it's not purely defensive/reactionary; I really think the cause-and-effect makes sense):

Over the past several seasons, a number of fanbases have had a top tier player leave their team. That's a sensitive event, that always frays folk's nerves. This is totally understandable. I don't blame them one bit for those emotions.

In each case, Ainge and the Celtics have been connected as an interested party to acquire the player. Some of these conversations may have gone pretty deep, while others may have been pretty superficial. The other team, understandably, always wanted one or both of Tatum or Brown (or, far enough back: the BRK picks that became them), and we weren't willing to part with them. As Tatum and Brown have continued to ascend (or, far enough back: as the BRK picks came in at high slots), those fanbases became resentful that we weren't willing to part with them, and so attempted, whether consciously or simply reacting instinctively, to make us "regret it", by pushing the "lol Ainge overvaluing his assets and screwing himself" narrative every chance they got. Misery loves company, and if you're not happy with the fate of your franchise, you can take your mind off of it by making others feel bad as well. This is very human.

Once it had some legs, with every passing big-name trade we failed to get in on, the myth and legend only grew, until it became an instant and-1 factory to parrot, not only here, but on the T&T board, and the Wiretaps as well (I've honestly never seen wiretap posts getting any real amount of and-1's before, except for those LOL'ing at Ainge). At this point, it is simply known that Ainge is a snake who constantly screws himself. No doubt remains on this point among the RealGM hive mind. Some of these posts literally get almost 100 and-1s, just for parroting the talking point, regardless of evidence or context. See: the first couple pages of this thread.

It's gotten so ridiculous and over-the-top, that Celtic fans are now very vocal about pointing it out. And when we do that, posters like you blame us for bringing it on ourselves. And so the cycle continues.

So what I will say in closing is this: the next time you see a post that says something like "lol Ainge screwed himself again" and it has 75 and-1s, and you're about to click to add the 76th, consider the fact that the majority of the Celtic fanbase is very happy with where we're sitting right now. And the next time a Celtic poster points out the ridiculousness and laziness of the narrative, and holds people to their awful takes when they turn out to be awful, consider if you wouldn't have had the same urge if the roles were reversed.

I’m going to print this love letter and keep this in my shoebox under my bed. You had me at “This”.

[SMTBSI]

Spoiler:

This is bully/abuser logic. We're going to hate on you constantly every chance we get, and when you chirp back, it's proof you deserve the hate. I believe you're reversing cause and effect.

Here's my theory (and I hope, if you actually read it, you will see that it's not purely defensive/reactionary; I really think the cause-and-effect makes sense):

Over the past several seasons, a number of fanbases have had a top tier player leave their team. That's a sensitive event, that always frays folk's nerves. This is totally understandable. I don't blame them one bit for those emotions.

In each case, Ainge and the Celtics have been connected as an interested party to acquire the player. Some of these conversations may have gone pretty deep, while others may have been pretty superficial. The other team, understandably, always wanted one or both of Tatum or Brown (or, far enough back: the BRK picks that became them), and we weren't willing to part with them. As Tatum and Brown have continued to ascend (or, far enough back: as the BRK picks came in at high slots), those fanbases became resentful that we weren't willing to part with them, and so attempted, whether consciously or simply reacting instinctively, to make us "regret it", by pushing the "lol Ainge overvaluing his assets and screwing himself" narrative every chance they got. Misery loves company, and if you're not happy with the fate of your franchise, you can take your mind off of it by making others feel bad as well. This is very human.

Once it had some legs, with every passing big-name trade we failed to get in on, the myth and legend only grew, until it became an instant and-1 factory to parrot, not only here, but on the T&T board, and the Wiretaps as well (I've honestly never seen wiretap posts getting any real amount of and-1's before, except for those LOL'ing at Ainge). At this point, it is simply known that Ainge is a snake who constantly screws himself. No doubt remains on this point among the RealGM hive mind. Some of these posts literally get almost 100 and-1s, just for parroting the talking point, regardless of evidence or context. See: the first couple pages of this thread.

It's gotten so ridiculous and over-the-top, that Celtic fans are now very vocal about pointing it out. And when we do that, posters like you blame us for bringing it on ourselves. And so the cycle continues.

So what I will say in closing is this: the next time you see a post that says something like "lol Ainge screwed himself again" and it has 75 and-1s, and you're about to click to add the 76th, consider the fact that the majority of the Celtic fanbase is very happy with where we're sitting right now. And the next time a Celtic poster points out the ridiculousness and laziness of the narrative, and holds people to their awful takes when they turn out to be awful, consider if you wouldn't have had the same urge if the roles were reversed.

I’m going to print this love letter and keep this in my shoebox under my bed. You had me at “This”.

Don't flatter yourself. That post was aimed at the board. You were the innocent bystander.

[HoopsterJones]

Spoiler:

This is bully/abuser logic. We're going to hate on you constantly every chance we get, and when you chirp back, it's proof you deserve the hate. I believe you're reversing cause and effect.

Here's my theory (and I hope, if you actually read it, you will see that it's not purely defensive/reactionary; I really think the cause-and-effect makes sense):

Over the past several seasons, a number of fanbases have had a top tier player leave their team. That's a sensitive event, that always frays folk's nerves. This is totally understandable. I don't blame them one bit for those emotions.

In each case, Ainge and the Celtics have been connected as an interested party to acquire the player. Some of these conversations may have gone pretty deep, while others may have been pretty superficial. The other team, understandably, always wanted one or both of Tatum or Brown (or, far enough back: the BRK picks that became them), and we weren't willing to part with them. As Tatum and Brown have continued to ascend (or, far enough back: as the BRK picks came in at high slots), those fanbases became resentful that we weren't willing to part with them, and so attempted, whether consciously or simply reacting instinctively, to make us "regret it", by pushing the "lol Ainge overvaluing his assets and screwing himself" narrative every chance they got. Misery loves company, and if you're not happy with the fate of your franchise, you can take your mind off of it by making others feel bad as well. This is very human.

Once it had some legs, with every passing big-name trade we failed to get in on, the myth and legend only grew, until it became an instant and-1 factory to parrot, not only here, but on the T&T board, and the Wiretaps as well (I've honestly never seen wiretap posts getting any real amount of and-1's before, except for those LOL'ing at Ainge). At this point, it is simply known that Ainge is a snake who constantly screws himself. No doubt remains on this point among the RealGM hive mind. Some of these posts literally get almost 100 and-1s, just for parroting the talking point, regardless of evidence or context. See: the first couple pages of this thread.

It's gotten so ridiculous and over-the-top, that Celtic fans are now very vocal about pointing it out. And when we do that, posters like you blame us for bringing it on ourselves. And so the cycle continues.

So what I will say in closing is this: the next time you see a post that says something like "lol Ainge screwed himself again" and it has 75 and-1s, and you're about to click to add the 76th, consider the fact that the majority of the Celtic fanbase is very happy with where we're sitting right now. And the next time a Celtic poster points out the ridiculousness and laziness of the narrative, and holds people to their awful takes when they turn out to be awful, consider if you wouldn't have had the same urge if the roles were reversed.

I’m going to print this love letter and keep this in my shoebox under my bed. You had me at “This”.

Don't flatter yourself. That post was aimed at the board. You were the innocent bystander.

I agree with you my dude. I’m totally into this.

[FlatearthZorro]

This is what everyone, always say about the Ainge's contracts, until they pan out and the deal turns out to be very favorable for the Celtics. Ainge might not be the best at everything, but signing deals has been his forte. Lots of experts in here, as per usual.

Ehm..

[bisme37]

As a general note I think people forget or haven't realized that a new 4 year contract is not for the last 4 years. It's for the next 4 years. It's not a reward for anything that player did in the past.

When extending a young player you're making an educated bet that the player will be worth to during the term of that contract. And the people in the best position to make that judgment are the people on the coaching staff and in the front office who see that player work and improve every day.

Ainge made a great call here and Jaylen is now one the very best values in the league.

[MrBigShot]

Never would've imagined it would be an underpay. Wouldn't put it past him to keep improving and win an MVP at some point either.