Woj/Shams: Ime Udoka Suspended for 2022-23 Season - Inappropriate Relationship, Conduct Violations

[MarcusBrody]

I mean it really all depends. Ive worked at a place where they said no interoffice relationships were allowed (even people who had even level power). While my dad has worked at a big time research institute and the CEO is married to a lower level supervisor. Some places have a strict no go policy with stuff like this, some places have them fill out forms stating their personal life wont interfere with work. With stuff like this, it really can come down to individual work environments. Unless the NBA as a general corporation has a blanket policy on this.

I understand. Am I alone in hearing the idea of NEVER dating your subordinate as a very general, blanketed unwritten rule across all professions?

It's been expressed in this thread alone at least a handful times.

Your response is fair and measured. Most people when speaking of this say it should never happen because the subordinate is placed in a position of fear to say no. This is the general perception I'm speaking of. I think there's a ton of nuance in these situations that get ignored.

No I dont think youre alone in hearing that. I hear it all the time. And I would think that in the majority of places that is the rule. Im just throwing out personal anecdotal situations that I know of first hand where its not always like that. Where again they have both parties sign some forms stating they wont let their personal life interfere and so on. But yes I think the majority of times you will see the rule of no dating a subordinate.

But again with that said when it comes to this specific scenario. Im not sure we would be seeing this kind of reaction from the Celtics organization if it was as simple as Ime dating a subordinate. Again I think we would see more of rising scale of punishment, like starting out with Ime being suspended for the opening night for conduct detrimental to the team. And if nothing changes after that, maybe harsher and harsher punishments. I have a hard time seeing them going straight to talks of firing him or suspending him for a full year.

And I know many have brought up Rosas being fired for a consensual relationship, if I recall correctly. It was a lot more than just that for why he got fired. That was kind of just viewed as the last straw with him. I believe I read multiple articles describing how the Wolves had received many complaints over and over again about him and how he created a very toxic and dysfunctional workplace (this was all prior to them finding out he was dating someone in the organization).

In organizations I've been part of, dating a subordinate (someone who you might be giving instructions to/having power over) has always been forbidden. There have been different policies at different places for dating people who are at a different level in the institutional hierarchy for home you have no control, and in those some places will tolerate it, but want it reported. Obviously once you start to get to the very top of the hierarchy pyramid, there aren't too many people over whom you couldn't have some influence, so it's more and more verboten.

[Sedale Threatt]

Did he really, I mean this has been confirmed that it was one of the executives' wife? Dang. Who's wife?

As for the implications- they are much bigger than people think when it comes to coorperate workplace/space. Usually, this could lead to law suits, serious league-wide blockback and potentially even the ownership being forced to sell the team. That's why in any big time coorporation, you're now allowed to sleep with women/men especially if you're in a position of power.

Back a few pages someone quoted a tweet that he actually was f***ing more than one woman connected to the Celtics, including a VP and a Sr. VP’s WIFE.

That is the only thing that lends itself to a YEAR LONG suspension making sense. They aren’t giving him this kind of work (no pun intended) for f***ing the towel girl.

Just read on our board and a story is saying that he was sleeping with one of Steve Paggliuca's best buddies wife, who's married with children. I mean, anybody would do that, tbh. If I'm owner and one of my employees is **** my best friend's wife, I would fire them nearly for sure. To me Udoka isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. There are so many women in the US. That's just plain stupid.

I’ve always thought Ime was pretty smart actually, but def. not in this instance. I thought a year was over the top too, but if he’s banging the wives of team executives that’s so insanely dumb I don’t even know where to start. It doesn’t take a genius to see how corrosive that can be to an organization, before you even get into any liability issues with the underling. That’s just horrendously bad decision-making on to his part.

[DaeDae]

If he’s still a Celtic a year from now, I want to be there on his first day back.

Reason he isnt fired is because he has a contract and the C's dont want to pay him to coach on some other team

I still wonder how that works in a R2W state. Contracts are terminated all the time down here. Maybe it’s a Union issue. Because we largely don’t have unions down here either.

Im sure there’s vague wording on coaching contracts that will enable the C’s to terminate his contract. But his contract is like 10 millish and the coaches union will fight it. For a multi billion dollar organization, is this worth the fight? They’re probably hoping he resigns, but I don’t see why he would. Which is why I see a settlement. I have no idea how a full season suspension is supposed to work. He’s just gonna show up in a year like nothing happened? Lol

[FlatearthZorro]

Back a few pages someone quoted a tweet that he actually was f***ing more than one woman connected to the Celtics, including a VP and a Sr. VP’s WIFE.

That is the only thing that lends itself to a YEAR LONG suspension making sense. They aren’t giving him this kind of work (no pun intended) for f***ing the towel girl.

Just read on our board and a story is saying that he was sleeping with one of Steve Paggliuca's best buddies wife, who's married with children. I mean, anybody would do that, tbh. If I'm owner and one of my employees is **** my best friend's wife, I would fire them nearly for sure. To me Udoka isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. There are so many women in the US. That's just plain stupid.

I’ve always thought Ime was pretty smart actually, but def. not in this instance. I thought a year was over the top too, but if he’s banging the wives of team executives that’s so insanely dumb I don’t even know where to start. It doesn’t take a genius to see how corrosive that can be to an organization, before you even get into any liability issues with the underling. That’s just horrendously bad decision-making on to his part.

I don't think he's smart, bro. He's a millionaire, there are instagram models, etc, all kinds of gorgeous women, who's do anything for money and you have to **** an executives wife? I mean this speaks volumes. I wasn't overly amazed by his pressconferences. He says pretty generic things. The one value that he had to us, imo, was the the Jays listened to him, cause "he can relate better to them". I feel Brad would coach circles around him, if the players actually listened(which they didn't in his last year in as Boston HC).

[Duke4life831]

I understand. Am I alone in hearing the idea of NEVER dating your subordinate as a very general, blanketed unwritten rule across all professions?

It's been expressed in this thread alone at least a handful times.

Your response is fair and measured. Most people when speaking of this say it should never happen because the subordinate is placed in a position of fear to say no. This is the general perception I'm speaking of. I think there's a ton of nuance in these situations that get ignored.

No I dont think youre alone in hearing that. I hear it all the time. And I would think that in the majority of places that is the rule. Im just throwing out personal anecdotal situations that I know of first hand where its not always like that. Where again they have both parties sign some forms stating they wont let their personal life interfere and so on. But yes I think the majority of times you will see the rule of no dating a subordinate.

But again with that said when it comes to this specific scenario. Im not sure we would be seeing this kind of reaction from the Celtics organization if it was as simple as Ime dating a subordinate. Again I think we would see more of rising scale of punishment, like starting out with Ime being suspended for the opening night for conduct detrimental to the team. And if nothing changes after that, maybe harsher and harsher punishments. I have a hard time seeing them going straight to talks of firing him or suspending him for a full year.

And I know many have brought up Rosas being fired for a consensual relationship, if I recall correctly. It was a lot more than just that for why he got fired. That was kind of just viewed as the last straw with him. I believe I read multiple articles describing how the Wolves had received many complaints over and over again about him and how he created a very toxic and dysfunctional workplace (this was all prior to them finding out he was dating someone in the organization).

In organizations I've been part of, dating a subordinate (someone who you might be giving instructions to/having power over) has always been forbidden. There have been different policies at different places for dating people who are at a different level in the institutional hierarchy for home you have no control, and in those some places will tolerate it, but want it reported. Obviously once you start to get to the very top of the hierarchy pyramid, there aren't too many people over whom you couldn't have some influence, so it's more and more verboten.

I get that, Im just speaking on a situation I know of personally which doesnt fit this. Again my father worked at a big place where the CEO was married to a lower level supervisor (who was directly under her). Again yes I believe this being a no go is the rule for the vast majority of places, Im not denying that at all. I am just saying its not a blanket thing for every place, that is all Im saying and Im saying that with direct knowledge of a case where its not. Thats all. The situations where it isnt completely outright banned, companies will have both parties sign forms stating they're in consensual relationships and that they wont allow that relationship to interfere with the workspace and it is also to protect the company as well. But yes those forms do exist. Im not saying they're super common, just saying they exist and I know personally of an example.

[Synciere]

Yeah if he is gonna make claims like that at least on example would be great. And if he has the information he should definitely out them

Hard to take SAS take as nothing more than inflammatory wild speculation considering that 1)in recent years the league has taken issues like this more seriously and 2) a white person was fired from a high ranking NBA job just a year ago for inappropriate workplace relationships and 3) inflammatory speculation is literally how he makes his career

An example would help, I agree, but I don't think it's necessary. I've asked someone else in this thread if they're saying in the history of the NBA, in which probably 90% of the coaches, executives, and owners have been white, if they believe there's never been an instance where an member of the organization had a consensual relationship with a subordinate?

A person cannot reasonably think about that question and come up with any other answer other than, of course there have examples of something like this happening. I don't think Stephen A should destroy an (relatively speaking) innocent person to make a point here. I think what happened here is the woman's husband demanded some type of punishment publicly and the Celtics brass relented, though I'm not exactly sure why. That said, this was a reasonable question to ask by Stephen A. imo. Inflammatory commentary is how many people in the industry make their careers. Stephen A. is hardly the exception, or even a pioneer. I give that title to Mad Dog Russo personally, since I remember him from the 90s, but you'll never hear some of the nasty rhetoric said about Stephen A used to describe Russo. That's another thing though...

But I don't think looking at all NBA history is relevant. NBA and the world has changed on how they treat these issues. Only the last few years would have been relevant. Also I think this is about more than just a consensual relationship. It must have had an impact on workplace culture or he did something beyond just a consensual relationship. Ime is clearly valuable to the organization and I don't think they'd make this decision lightly. So the question is how many white people have had workplace relations that have contributed to a toxic work environment in the last few years? Also, Boston is its own organization with its own standards and policies. "the rest of the league turns a blind eye" is a poor excuse for the Celtics not to punish Ime in this situation.

And the other thing is the framing. Ime did something wrong and should face consequences. SAS implication is that Ime should not be punished until the NBA teams start punishing white people for inappropriate behavior. 1) nobody wins in that scenario, and is impossible for the Celtics organization to justify to its current staff and 2) we have 2 recent examples in Sarver and Rossan being punished by the league.

Yes I understand he makes his career from inflammatory remarks. All the more reason to view anything he says with a different lens.

Stephen A's remarks are not just inflammatory. It's only people who wish to discredit him that paint him as only that and not that as an informed insider and journalist of more than three decades. Most of what he says is not inflammatory at all, but people will ignore that fact off of general principle. It's all how you frame things, as you said.

Sarver and Sterling were nasty pricks whom it took the league decades to get rid of because they were rich powerful owners, so I think everyone understands how it took the league so long to get around to that. Again, in framing this, Sarver went as far as to point out the current unforgiving climate rather than accepting his nasty ass actions.

There's Tardemma (sp?) Ussery that sticks out, because he clearly had a dozen or so complaints over almost two decades as a Black executive for the Mavs, but his nasty work at least seemed consistent since it took more than 20 years for the Mavericks to ever have to deal with a punishment from the league for his actions. And then there's Rosas, but those were executives, which already suffer from a lower percentage than players and coaches in terms of minority in place. Nobody made any remarks about equality in this situation, but executive or coach, it always seems to be someone with a little hue getting the shaft.

Boston has long been considered one of the most racist cities in the North. No one is using what the rest of the league does as a basis for what Boston does because Boston has never used the rest of the league as a benchmark for what they did both on and off the court. That organization has ignored the plight of Black people to this day, so how they chose THIS as the line to draw in the sand is probably being driven at least in part by the fact that Ime is Black. How much would you bet that the woman's husband had some sort of racial animus regarding this situation?

Again, the lack of white examples doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they're more likely to be protected.

[nikster]

There’s no expectation of privacy in public or public facing jobs. If you want anonymity don’t have a high ranking position within an NBA team.

Posting pictures is fair game imo

In what world is a job like "Team service Manager" considered high ranking , public facing or expected to come with public exposure like this? Can you name a single person in a similar role in any other NBA team? Or any other professional sports organization? Could you even find that information online if you tried?

I think if you work for an NBA team your position is pretty public. Is it in bad taste? Yes, probably. But I don't think it's a huge deal. I don't thin it's defamation.

If nobody's heard of this person or this position, for any professional sports organization, then no it is not public facing.They never speak to the media or the pubic. You can't find any information about these people online.

What makes NBA so special that every job in the organization is public facing? Is that true for any major corporation?

[Plutonashfan]

Ok. Outside of hoops, wrestling , horror movies, walking dead, music (Korn, NiN, Static, X etc) I mostly live under a rock in terms of pop culture knowledge. I had to google Nia Long and wowzers! Why do guys feel the need to go buy a steak when they already have Filet Mignon in house? I don't get it.

The weird part is why do it in house? These men travel literally half the time they work.

[celticfan42487]

of course he's wrong. he's a race baiting cvnt who should be fired/suspended for saying such blatant racist things on air.

Is Stephen A suggesting that there are multiple NBA coaches out here banging multiple wifes in their org?

And Doc Rivers who is probably one of the more in shape ones being a former player is stuck looking at Twitter for porn? Something doesn't add up.

I think he's saying there have been multiple coaches and executives who banged subordinates or associates of the organization and it's not newsworthy there so why here?

I agree it shouldn't be newsworthy, I feel like this is a violation of all the employee's privacy.

However whomever is the one higher up the ladder in the org should be fired though for improper conduct, and I'm sure the other employees have a good case on their hand for a lawsuit for gross mistreatment.

You can't really give consent to your boss, the power imbalance is too great. Part of the reason almost every company has this as a fireable offense I would assume in the world.

[nikster]

I think if you work for an NBA team your position is pretty public. Is it in bad taste? Yes, probably. But I don't think it's a huge deal. I don't thin it's defamation.

Most positions in an NBA organization are NOT public, in any form. Come on. General manager? Sure. How do we know this? Because when a team hires a GM, or President or Personnel, or Lead Scout, there's a press release. I worked for the Sixers for two years, trust, you've NEVER heard of me. LOL

Your information would be public on the sixers website (email address etc)

We can agree to disagree

So as long as a corporation lists an employees email address on their website they are public facing and it is "fair game" to wildly speculate on their sex life and share images of them online.

[Sedale Threatt]

Just read on our board and a story is saying that he was sleeping with one of Steve Paggliuca's best buddies wife, who's married with children. I mean, anybody would do that, tbh. If I'm owner and one of my employees is **** my best friend's wife, I would fire them nearly for sure. To me Udoka isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. There are so many women in the US. That's just plain stupid.

I’ve always thought Ime was pretty smart actually, but def. not in this instance. I thought a year was over the top too, but if he’s banging the wives of team executives that’s so insanely dumb I don’t even know where to start. It doesn’t take a genius to see how corrosive that can be to an organization, before you even get into any liability issues with the underling. That’s just horrendously bad decision-making on to his part.

I don't think he's smart, bro. He's a millionaire, there are instagram models, etc, all kinds of gorgeous women, who's do anything for money and you have to **** an executives wife? I mean this speaks volumes. I wasn't overly amazed by his pressconferences. He says pretty generic things. The one value that he had to us, imo, was the the Jays listened to him, cause "he can relate better to them". I feel Brad would coach circles around him, if the players actually listened(which they didn't in his last year in as Boston HC).

Eh, I was a sports writer for 20-some years so I’ve dealt with plenty of dumb athletes over the years. (For example, I did an interview with Jamaal Charles I had to toss because he couldn’t speak in complete, coherent sentences.) But having dealt with Ime a bit, he never gave me anywhere close to those vibes. In this particular instance? As I said multiple times, absolutely moronic. Especially, as you note, when you’ve got money like Ime. He had almost unlimited options and he picked the absolute worst one.

[nikster]

Have to say I don't understand the misogyny conclusion.

Really?

Ime Udoka, engaged man, should get a much smaller punishment than the woman (also married)? He should be commended for "exposing a cheater"...by being a cheater himself? She should be fined and he should only be suspended?

How about equal media exposure, equal punishment?

How I see it, the only victim is the husband who remainly faithful (as far as we know).

We don't know the punishment of the females right now. They could have been fired as well. It's also different if he had more power/influence in the organization.

Asking for equal media exposure is just silly. One person's in a role that involves media and public relations and everybody on this forum would at least recognize the name

[FlatearthZorro]

An example would help, I agree, but I don't think it's necessary. I've asked someone else in this thread if they're saying in the history of the NBA, in which probably 90% of the coaches, executives, and owners have been white, if they believe there's never been an instance where an member of the organization had a consensual relationship with a subordinate?

A person cannot reasonably think about that question and come up with any other answer other than, of course there have examples of something like this happening. I don't think Stephen A should destroy an (relatively speaking) innocent person to make a point here. I think what happened here is the woman's husband demanded some type of punishment publicly and the Celtics brass relented, though I'm not exactly sure why. That said, this was a reasonable question to ask by Stephen A. imo. Inflammatory commentary is how many people in the industry make their careers. Stephen A. is hardly the exception, or even a pioneer. I give that title to Mad Dog Russo personally, since I remember him from the 90s, but you'll never hear some of the nasty rhetoric said about Stephen A used to describe Russo. That's another thing though...

But I don't think looking at all NBA history is relevant. NBA and the world has changed on how they treat these issues. Only the last few years would have been relevant. Also I think this is about more than just a consensual relationship. It must have had an impact on workplace culture or he did something beyond just a consensual relationship. Ime is clearly valuable to the organization and I don't think they'd make this decision lightly. So the question is how many white people have had workplace relations that have contributed to a toxic work environment in the last few years? Also, Boston is its own organization with its own standards and policies. "the rest of the league turns a blind eye" is a poor excuse for the Celtics not to punish Ime in this situation.

And the other thing is the framing. Ime did something wrong and should face consequences. SAS implication is that Ime should not be punished until the NBA teams start punishing white people for inappropriate behavior. 1) nobody wins in that scenario, and is impossible for the Celtics organization to justify to its current staff and 2) we have 2 recent examples in Sarver and Rossan being punished by the league.

Yes I understand he makes his career from inflammatory remarks. All the more reason to view anything he says with a different lens.

Stephen A's remarks are not just inflammatory. It's only people who wish to discredit him that paint him as only that and not that as an informed insider and journalist of more than three decades. Most of what he says is not inflammatory at all, but people will ignore that fact off of general principle. It's all how you frame things, as you said.

Sarver and Sterling were nasty pricks whom it took the league decades to get rid of because they were rich powerful owners, so I think everyone understands how it took the league so long to get around to that. Again, in framing this, Sarver went as far as to point out the current unforgiving climate rather than accepting his nasty ass actions.

There's Tardemma (sp?) Ussery that sticks out, because he clearly had a dozen or so complaints over almost two decades as a Black executive for the Mavs, but his nasty work at least seemed consistent since it took more than 20 years for the Mavericks to ever have to deal with a punishment from the league for his actions. And then there's Rosas, but those were executives, which already suffer from a lower percentage than players and coaches in terms of minority in place. Nobody made any remarks about equality in this situation, but executive or coach, it always seems to be someone with a little hue getting the shaft.

Boston has long been considered one of the most racist cities in the North. No one is using what the rest of the league does as a basis for what Boston does because Boston has never used the rest of the league as a benchmark for what they did both on and off the court. That organization has ignored the plight of Black people to this day, so how they chose THIS as the line to draw in the sand is probably being driven at least in part by the fact that Ime is Black. How much would you bet that the woman's husband had some sort of racial animus regarding this situation?

Again, the lack of white examples doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means they're more likely to be protected.

You're reaching and you absolutely have no evidence. How about Udoka taking some type of accountability for his actions? How about that for a 50 year old man, who just got his dream job and was/is making millions and the one woman he had to bang is the wife of an executive? And you find that to be normal? And Boston is racist? This is coorperate working environment, nothing to do with racism. The workspace would be super toxic if the guy returns and to me he is a PRICK. He could probably have any instsagram model, he went for somebody's wife... That's bizzare and not a move a good person would make at least in my understanding, although I'm fairly oldschool.

[DaeDae]

Just read on our board and a story is saying that he was sleeping with one of Steve Paggliuca's best buddies wife, who's married with children. I mean, anybody would do that, tbh. If I'm owner and one of my employees is **** my best friend's wife, I would fire them nearly for sure. To me Udoka isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. There are so many women in the US. That's just plain stupid.

I’ve always thought Ime was pretty smart actually, but def. not in this instance. I thought a year was over the top too, but if he’s banging the wives of team executives that’s so insanely dumb I don’t even know where to start. It doesn’t take a genius to see how corrosive that can be to an organization, before you even get into any liability issues with the underling. That’s just horrendously bad decision-making on to his part.

I don't think he's smart, bro. He's a millionaire, there are instagram models, etc, all kinds of gorgeous women, who's do anything for money and you have to **** an executives wife? I mean this speaks volumes. I wasn't overly amazed by his pressconferences. He says pretty generic things. The one value that he had to us, imo, was the the Jays listened to him, cause "he can relate better to them". I feel Brad would coach circles around him, if the players actually listened(which they didn't in his last year in as Boston HC).

That’s my thing. This dude is a millionaire, on national TV regularly, runs in pretty substantial circles and is AT MINIMUM attractive enough to pull Nia Long and be her Fiance. He literally could have chosen almost any other woman on earth - and many of them would have been down with it, married people not - and he would not be suspended today. He chose one of the only 5-10 women on EARTH that could potentially ruin his career by sleeping with her.

If the story is true of course…..

[nikster]

Is Stephen A suggesting that there are multiple NBA coaches out here banging multiple wifes in their org?

And Doc Rivers who is probably one of the more in shape ones being a former player is stuck looking at Twitter for porn? Something doesn't add up.

I think he's saying there have been multiple coaches and executives who banged subordinates or associates of the organization and it's not newsworthy there so why here?

I agree it shouldn't be newsworthy, I feel like this is a violation of all the employee's privacy.

However whomever is the one higher up the ladder in the org should be fired though for improper conduct, and I'm sure the other employees have a good case on their hand for a lawsuit for gross mistreatment.

You can't really give consent to your boss, the power imbalance is too great. Part of the reason almost every company has this as a fireable offense I would assume in the world.

An NBA coach getting unexpectedly suspended is always going to be newsworthy tho. Especially one so highly regarded who just made the finals

[CelticSooner]

I’m not the least bit surprised there are people already trying to make this into some racial issue smh no god forbid this is nothing more than a dumb ass coach abusing his position of power and undermining the whole organization.

He knew the rules and obviously didn’t care enough about his job not to break them.

[Catchall]

If the woman that Udoka slept with is really the wife of another executive within the organization, then yeah, that's really dirty and disrespectful to the organization. It's not something that can just be brushed aside.

[DaeDae]

I’m not the least bit surprised there are people already trying to make this into some racial issue smh no god forbid this he nothing more than a dumb ass coach abusing his position of power and undermining the whole organization.

He knew the rules and obviously didn’t care enough about his job not to break them.

They are in the VAST minority. Please don’t amplify this as a race issue by honing in on race-baiting.

[CallMeKahn]

If the woman that Udoka slept with is really the wife of another executive within the organization, then yeah, that's really dirty and disrespectful to the organization. It's not something that can just be brushed aside.

Ferengi Rules of Acquisition #112 and #113: Never sleep with the boss' sister or wife. Rather, always sleep with the boss.

[enigmatics]

That’s my thing. This dude is a millionaire, on national TV regularly, runs in pretty substantial circles and is AT MINIMUM attractive enough to pull Nia Long and be her Fiance. He literally could have chosen almost any other woman on earth - and many of them would have been down with it, married people not - and he would not be suspended today. He chose one of the only 5-10 women on EARTH that could potentially ruin his career by sleeping with her.

If the story is true of course…..

Amazing isn't it?

The guy is a certified moron.