If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[tooler]

…a Rockets team that often looks like they just met a few minutes before tip-off…

This guy just lets it rip, huh? I don’t mean to make fun but that line really got me just from the wacky visual in my mind.

[Vampirate]

Lol a hit piece? It's objectivity telling you the pros and cons of the top 4 picks from last year

There just isn't a Paolo in that draft.

All 4 of Green, Barnes, Mobley and Cade have something in them that you can see can lead to them becoming All NBA guys, on the other hand they all lack something the others have.

It's truly difficult to tell which in that draft class will end up being the best player in 3 years down the line atm.

[rocketsfan100]

I think we can all agree Mobley is the best prospect?

[hippesthippo]

I think Sengun has a Mark Gasol career (which is an excellent career) written all over him.

Marc Gasol won DPOY.

We talking about the same guy here?

[peZt]

It's still super early, but even one of the most hyped up draft classes in recent years will probably not produce an american superstar.
I don't know what's going wrong in US High Schools and colleges but if we didn't happen to have the best european generation of all time, the talent level in the NBA would look very dire in the next few years once the KD, Harden, Curry generation retires.
There have been barely any american superstars drafted in the last 10 years. You have Tatum, Zion, maybe Ja, and then a bunch of all star level players but barely any true superstars

[Bergmaniac]

Im not picking a big who can’t be a star on offense over two potential star perimeter players who can shoot, score and create on offense.

What’s Mobley’s ceiling Jaren Jackson Jr.?

You’re taking Jaren Jackson Jr. over two likely 25ppg guards?

I'd take a non-injury prone version of Jaren Jackson Jr. over the vast majority of 25 ppg guards any day of the week.

[jasonxxx102]

Im not picking a big who can’t be a star on offense over two potential star perimeter players who can shoot, score and create on offense.

What’s Mobley’s ceiling Jaren Jackson Jr.?

You’re taking Jaren Jackson Jr. over two likely 25ppg guards?

I'd take a non-injury prone version of Jaren Jackson Jr. over the vast majority of 25 ppg guards any day of the week.

For team building, especially if you're building a title contending team. Switchable 4/5 hybrids who are elite defenders are WAY more valuable than volume scoring guards.

There are a million volume scoring guards in the league.

[JonFromVA]

Lol a hit piece? It's objectivity telling you the pros and cons of the top 4 picks from last year

There just isn't a Paolo in that draft.

All 4 of Green, Barnes, Mobley and Cade have something in them that you can see can lead to them becoming All NBA guys, on the other hand they all lack something the others have.

It's truly difficult to tell which in that draft class will end up being the best player in 3 years down the line atm.

Keep in mind, even Paulo needs to develop and improve or he's just a low efficiency volume scorer without a 3pter who's awful team is better when he's not on the floor.

Skill and physical development are crucial for young players and we want to assume it's going to happen, but we still have to see it.

[mg]

I like Green alot but the Rockets really need to bring in some leadership to that group.

[OrlMagic05]

Anyone that doesnt see Franz as a top 1 or 2 player in this draft just isnt watching him. Last night he had 2 points to start the 4th with only 3 shot attempts and ended up with 22 on 6/10 shooting. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely forces his offense.

[Exp0sed]

Anyone that doesnt see Franz as a top 1 or 2 player in this draft just isnt watching him. Last night he had 2 points to start the 4th with only 3 shot attempts and ended up with 22 on 6/10 shooting. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely forces his offense.

no offense, but ur being incredibly homerish

players have all kinds of development trajectories and careers take surprising turns at times

Franz is just in the middle of his soph season and alot can happen, we have no idea how far he is to his ceiling

but so far, he hasn't shown anything to make anyone think he'd be a real difference maker in this league in the future
He's a decent outside shooter, isn't an efficient NBA scorer (nothing to write home about anyway)
his defense is well below average despite his size
he's a poor rebounder and isn't a particularly good or promising playmaker

He looks like a role player, a good one but def a role player - thus far
will he make tremendous jumps in the future? it's very possible but far from guaranteed
most guys that make those huge jumps, they don't really come from nowhere - there were earlier signs, flashed of something greater.

what's Franz's path to be a star in this league?
with certain players it's easy to envision - whether they reach that level via work, improvment, physical maturity etc is a diff question but you can see how that could happen

with Franz i'm not seeing it yet tbh

[OrlMagic05]

Anyone that doesnt see Franz as a top 1 or 2 player in this draft just isnt watching him. Last night he had 2 points to start the 4th with only 3 shot attempts and ended up with 22 on 6/10 shooting. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely forces his offense.

no offense, but ur being incredibly homerish

players have all kinds of development trajectories and careers take surprising turns at times

Franz is just in the middle of his soph season and alot can happen, we have no idea how far he is to his ceiling

but so far, he hasn't shown anything to make anyone think he'd be a real difference maker in this league in the future
He's a decent outside shooter, isn't an efficient NBA scorer (nothing to write home about anyway)
his defense is well below average despite his size
he's a poor rebounder and isn't a particularly good or promising playmaker

He looks like a role player, a good one but def a role player - thus far
will he make tremendous jumps in the future? it's very possible but far from guaranteed
most guys that make those huge jumps, they don't really come from nowhere - there were earlier signs, flashed of something greater.

what's Franz's path to be a star in this league?
with certain players it's easy to envision - whether they reach that level via work, improvment, physical maturity etc is a diff question but you can see how that could happen

with Franz i'm not seeing it yet tbh

How is it homerish to say that a player who is putting up the best numbers from the 22 draft class is a top 2 player in the draft?

[Exp0sed]

Anyone that doesnt see Franz as a top 1 or 2 player in this draft just isnt watching him. Last night he had 2 points to start the 4th with only 3 shot attempts and ended up with 22 on 6/10 shooting. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely forces his offense.

How is it homerish to say that a player who is putting up the best numbers from the 22 draft class is a top 2 player in the draft?

which "best numbers" would that be?

that's how it works, if u put up the best "numbers" your the best prospect?

Franz is a role player, imo
i'm not saying a 100%, obviously he can also be better but that seems unlikely from watching him play
am i supposed to be impressed by 20 pts in 15 FGA?

edit: he is also starting (for a terrible team) from day one, that's a season and a half of full starter mins
most rookie and sophs don't get this many reps and PT this early

he's a good shooter and a decent player
but he has some serious limitations as a player that make his path for stardom very unlikely

it's homerism to look at that package and say - he's gonna be one of the best in this class, whereas without the homer glasses
it's pretty easy to see his ceiling is quite limited, in all likelihood

[OrlMagic05]

How is it homerish to say that a player who is putting up the best numbers from the 22 draft class is a top 2 player in the draft?

which "best numbers" would that be?

that's how it works, if u put up the best "numbers" your the best prospect?

Franz is a role player, imo
i'm not saying a 100%, obviously he can also be better but that seems unlikely from watching him play
am i supposed to be impressed by 20 pts in 15 FGA?

edit: he is also starting (for a terrible team) from day one, that's a season and a half of full starter mins
most rookie and sophs don't get this many reps and PT this early

he's a good shooter and a decent player
but he has some serious limitations as a player that make his path for stardom very unlikely

it's homerism to look at that package and say - he's gonna be one of the best in this class, whereas without the homer glasses
it's pretty easy to see his ceiling is quite limited, in all likelihood

Not sure if you know this, but typically in sports the best players usually put up the best numbers. Which is why I said he is a top 2 player in this draft right now.

Player 1- 20ppg 4rebs 3.5ast .8stl 48%FG 35%3pt
Player 2- 22ppg 4rebs 3.6ast .7stl 41%FG 33%3pt
Player 3-15ppg 7rebs 4.7ast .9stls 45%FG 29%3pt
Player4- 14ppg 9reb 2.7ast .8stl 1.2blk 55%FG 22%3pt
Player 5- 20ppg 6reb 6ast .8stl 42%FG 28%3pt

Who is having the best year out of these players?

EDIT* With the exception of Mobley, all sophomores are playing for bad teams. Franz is doing it pretty damn efficient compared to others

[QingJames]

Idk why people think there's "nothing special" about a 6'10 wing who moves fluidly with the ball, has a nice and reliable looking shot, shoots 85% from the line and league average from 3, and is a willing and capable passer, and who has very good court awareness. Maybe he doesn't have one stand-out elite skill but he's very good at a lot of facets of basketball. My biggest criticism of him remains his weakness and softness on the boards. He should be a much better rebounder than he is at his height. I don't want to hear the excuses from Magic fans that you have a big frontcourt and he's not needed on the boards - if you're being honest with yourselves, you know he's a poor rebounder.

Anyways, look at a guy like Jalen Green who has one truly elite attribute - his dribble separation ability coupled with explosive athleticism. But he's not good at anything else. He can't impact the game as much as someone like Franz because he doesn't have all the basketball skills Franz does. I can see how a trajectory for how Franz can become a top 20 player by improving and polishing the skills he already has, whereas a guy like Green has a long way to go toward becoming an impact player. Franz is pretty clearly the best player in this draft class so far, maybe he peaks as a couple of time All-Star, and maybe he makes ten teams. What's for certain is that other top prospects like Barnes, Cade, Green, etc. are the ones who have to prove they're better than Franz right now, not vice versa.

[JonFromVA]

How is it homerish to say that a player who is putting up the best numbers from the 22 draft class is a top 2 player in the draft?

which "best numbers" would that be?

that's how it works, if u put up the best "numbers" your the best prospect?

Franz is a role player, imo
i'm not saying a 100%, obviously he can also be better but that seems unlikely from watching him play
am i supposed to be impressed by 20 pts in 15 FGA?

edit: he is also starting (for a terrible team) from day one, that's a season and a half of full starter mins
most rookie and sophs don't get this many reps and PT this early

he's a good shooter and a decent player
but he has some serious limitations as a player that make his path for stardom very unlikely

it's homerism to look at that package and say - he's gonna be one of the best in this class, whereas without the homer glasses
it's pretty easy to see his ceiling is quite limited, in all likelihood

Well, unless historical comparisons are simply broken, why not be impressed by 20 pts on 15 shots, 3.5 assists and 4 boards all with a solid TS%?

When Gordon Hayward finally got there, he was 26 years old and running off to Boston on a max contract.

Most rookies and sophs don't get that much PT and usage because they can't score that efficiently, can't play that many minutes without fouling out, and don't make their team better when they're on the floor.

Of course development is not guaranteed, but it is expected from players this young.

Is this just a stupid semantic disagreement due to referring to anyone not a star as a role player?

[OrlMagic05]

Idk why people think there's "nothing special" about a 6'10 wing who moves fluidly with the ball, has a nice and reliable looking shot, shoots 85% from the line and league average from 3, and is a willing and capable passer, and who has very good court awareness. Maybe he doesn't have one stand-out elite skill but he's very good at a lot of facets of basketball. My biggest criticism of him remains his weakness and softness on the boards. He should be a much better rebounder than he is at his height. I don't want to hear the excuses from Magic fans that you have a big frontcourt and he's not needed on the boards - if you're being honest with yourselves, you know he's a poor rebounder.

Anyways, look at a guy like Jalen Green who has one truly elite attribute - his dribble separation ability coupled with explosive athleticism. But he's not good at anything else. He can't impact the game as much as someone like Franz because he doesn't have all the basketball skills Franz does. I can see how a trajectory for how Franz can become a top 20 player by improving and polishing the skills he already has, whereas a guy like Green has a long way to go toward becoming an impact player. Franz is pretty clearly the best player in this draft class so far, maybe he peaks as a couple of time All-Star, and maybe he makes ten teams. What's for certain is that other top prospects like Barnes, Cade, Green, etc. are the ones who have to prove they're better than Franz right now, not vice versa.

I agree with you about Franz rebounding. That is a clear weakness of his for sure especially being 6'10. He should be in the 6-7RPG range.

[Bergmaniac]

Anyone that doesnt see Franz as a top 1 or 2 player in this draft just isnt watching him. Last night he had 2 points to start the 4th with only 3 shot attempts and ended up with 22 on 6/10 shooting. He takes what the defense gives him and rarely forces his offense.

no offense, but ur being incredibly homerish

players have all kinds of development trajectories and careers take surprising turns at times

Franz is just in the middle of his soph season and alot can happen, we have no idea how far he is to his ceiling

but so far, he hasn't shown anything to make anyone think he'd be a real difference maker in this league in the future
He's a decent outside shooter, isn't an efficient NBA scorer (nothing to write home about anyway)
his defense is well below average despite his size
he's a poor rebounder and isn't a particularly good or promising playmaker

He looks like a role player, a good one but def a role player - thus far
will he make tremendous jumps in the future? it's very possible but far from guaranteed
most guys that make those huge jumps, they don't really come from nowhere - there were earlier signs, flashed of something greater.

what's Franz's path to be a star in this league?
with certain players it's easy to envision - whether they reach that level via work, improvment, physical maturity etc is a diff question but you can see how that could happen

with Franz i'm not seeing it yet tbh

How much have you actually watched Franz? "Well below average" on defence is plain wrong. He's average at worst, he's a 6'10" guy who can move his feet well and plays smart and gives good effort on D. He is certainly an efficient scorer, 20 PPG on 58.9 TS%, and he's doing it on a team with horrible spacing and one of the worst PG rotations in the league.

[chuck_wagon44]

The issue is that Jalen Green isn't in the conversation.

He simply can never be the best player (or even second best player) on a championship team in my opinion.

He is a chucker and doesn't play defense consistently enough. Lastly, he simple doesn't play hard most of the game...just on offense and occasional defensive plays. Very inconsistent player playing on the worst team in the league.

[Exp0sed]

Idk why people think there's "nothing special" about a 6'10 wing who moves fluidly with the ball, has a nice and reliable looking shot, shoots 85% from the line and league average from 3, and is a willing and capable passer, and who has very good court awareness. Maybe he doesn't have one stand-out elite skill but he's very good at a lot of facets of basketball. My biggest criticism of him remains his weakness and softness on the boards. He should be a much better rebounder than he is at his height. I don't want to hear the excuses from Magic fans that you have a big frontcourt and he's not needed on the boards - if you're being honest with yourselves, you know he's a poor rebounder.

Anyways, look at a guy like Jalen Green who has one truly elite attribute - his dribble separation ability coupled with explosive athleticism. But he's not good at anything else. He can't impact the game as much as someone like Franz because he doesn't have all the basketball skills Franz does. I can see how a trajectory for how Franz can become a top 20 player by improving and polishing the skills he already has, whereas a guy like Green has a long way to go toward becoming an impact player. Franz is pretty clearly the best player in this draft class so far, maybe he peaks as a couple of time All-Star, and maybe he makes ten teams. What's for certain is that other top prospects like Barnes, Cade, Green, etc. are the ones who have to prove they're better than Franz right now, not vice versa.

i'm not a fan of Green personally, I dislke that playstyle and culture

yes, his shooting is his best skill and his ft% is a good indicator he'll be shooting 40% from 3 when he developes further and gains experience

making 10 all star teams is a huge stretch but peaking at a couple of AS teams is def plausible
how likely is that? not very likely imo

he really lacks good defensive instincts - maybe he can his defense to passable level but i'd be shocked if he'll become a good NBA defender

how come a capable and willing passer, whose 6'10 and moves so "fluidly" with the ball manages only 3.5 AST and 2.2 TO, on 33 mpg with 25% usage?

capable and willing passers make good passes

here's where I see Franz as being capped:
he's been shooting well from 2p range, over 53% this season
the only actual skill Franz has rn that is elite - is shooting. Now, since he is a negative on the court defensively you have to run a good amount of offense thru him, if he isn't shooting - he is contributing very little

when you do run ur offense thru him, he's not a good enough playmaker to actually warrant that, that leaves you mosly with trying to get him good shots, on big volume kinda like MPJ for instance

is it valuable to have this type of player? sure - but that's 3rd or 4th best player on a good team

that kind of player still needs to be set up and he doesn't really make the players around him better and tbh it's even worse, because he's not getting extra possesions for his team (via rebounding on either end, steals\blocks etc.) in fact he's very below average in that regard so you could argue he's making his teammates "worse"

poor defense, poor all around game
scoring isn't everything

he'll need to carry a serious offensive load to justifiy a big contract
it's one thing now on a rookie deal, but imagine paying a max rookie extention...that's kind of hefty for what he actually brings to the table

now again, he's young maybe he breakes out starting tomorrow, or next season or in 4 seasons
point is as of now he hasn't shown that he can be any kind of difference maker

I guess his best case scenario would be something like this version of 2023 Lauri