Shams: New York Knicks Fire Head Coach Tom Thibodeau

[Wingy]

Since when is an owner firing a coach breaking news?

Its not but I think some people just want to tie anything bad to Dolan, since he was largely responsible for the disaster that was the Knicks of the 2000-2020 era.

I personally think firing Thibs was the wrong move (they overachieved and if anything, KAT is the guy that you could sell high on and do something with). There was a Bulls fan who had a good point, people have created this idea in their heads that Thibs can only be a coach for development and can't win with talent, but he's never really been given talent, he just gets teams to overachieve and they go back to sucking after he leaves (Bulls, T-Wolves, Knicks TBD).

I think it was absolutely true with the Bulls that he was the one holding it all together. There's an argument that he was responsible for some of the players falling apart but it was also pretty clear that he was holding together a failing franchise.

Minnesota was much more complicated in that Jimmy Butler forced his way out and this was in part due to the roster and situation that Manager Thibs had assembled. Then, the following season they were decimated by injuries and tanked.

Notably, there are not a lot of Wolves fans clamoring that Thibs' removal is going to set the Knicks back decades. After an unfortunate stint with Ryan Saunders they got Finch and new management/ownership (ok, and some good fortune in getting Edwards too) and are on great footings. I don't think they'd go back.

I think the answer for us is somewhere in the middle. Thibs is an excellent coach but the Knicks have healthy talent which wasn't the case in previous departures. Another solid coach should be able to get good results from this group. It would take a GREAT hire to improve substantially though.

He didn’t assemble MN’s core at the time. Wiggins, Lavine, and KAT were there before he arrived. Is the contention that bringing in Butler was his mistake? I’ve read that ownership meddled and said no to trading Wiggins, and wanted to push for the playoffs right away. Then Jimmy going off as he did wasn’t reasonably predictable. Is MN really any kind of indictment of Thibs the coach?

[KingFox]

Knicks back to irrelevancy moving forward. It was fun lol

Based on what? You all don't see how fast things change from season to season? lol for all we know, the teams in the finals right now, may never see it again.

[Capn'O]

Its not but I think some people just want to tie anything bad to Dolan, since he was largely responsible for the disaster that was the Knicks of the 2000-2020 era.

I personally think firing Thibs was the wrong move (they overachieved and if anything, KAT is the guy that you could sell high on and do something with). There was a Bulls fan who had a good point, people have created this idea in their heads that Thibs can only be a coach for development and can't win with talent, but he's never really been given talent, he just gets teams to overachieve and they go back to sucking after he leaves (Bulls, T-Wolves, Knicks TBD).

I think it was absolutely true with the Bulls that he was the one holding it all together. There's an argument that he was responsible for some of the players falling apart but it was also pretty clear that he was holding together a failing franchise.

Minnesota was much more complicated in that Jimmy Butler forced his way out and this was in part due to the roster and situation that Manager Thibs had assembled. Then, the following season they were decimated by injuries and tanked.

Notably, there are not a lot of Wolves fans clamoring that Thibs' removal is going to set the Knicks back decades. After an unfortunate stint with Ryan Saunders they got Finch and new management/ownership (ok, and some good fortune in getting Edwards too) and are on great footings. I don't think they'd go back.

I think the answer for us is somewhere in the middle. Thibs is an excellent coach but the Knicks have healthy talent which wasn't the case in previous departures. Another solid coach should be able to get good results from this group. It would take a GREAT hire to improve substantially though.

He didn’t assemble MN’s core at the time. Wiggins, Lavine, and KAT were there before he arrived. Is the contention that bringing in Butler was his mistake? I’ve read that ownership meddled and said no to trading Wiggins, and wanted to push for the playoffs right away. Then Jimmy going off as he did wasn’t reasonably predictable. Is MN really any kind of indictment of Thibs the coach?

I'll let the Minny fans speak to their grievances but when we hired him they were aghast and have largely been silent since the firing. They don't miss him the way that Bulls fans miss him. Thibs is a great coach and there's a lot he's right about but wears out his welcome in all of his stops because he's seemingly oblivious to his limitations and not willing to work on it. With more coming out, it's clear that happened in NY. There's not a way to move forward when your management team loses their working relationship like that. Notably, the stuff that management is frustrated about (minutes, communication, inflexibility) is the same stuff that stuck to him in other locations.

Knicks still need to make a great hire to not lose ground but they weren't about to move forward with Thibs. We would have soon reached the stage where things become untenable and a distraction.

[Wingy]

I'll let the Minny fans speak to their grievances but when we hired him they were aghast and have largely been silent since the firing. They don't miss him the way that Bulls fans miss him. Thibs is a great coach and there's a lot he's right about but wears out his welcome in all of his stops because he's seemingly oblivious to his limitations and not willing to work on it. With more coming out, it's clear that happened in NY. There's not a way to move forward when your management team loses their working relationship like that. Notably, the stuff that management is frustrated about (minutes, communication, inflexibility) is the same stuff that stuck to him in other locations.

Knicks still need to make a great hire to not lose ground but they weren't about to move forward with Thibs. We would have soon reached the stage where things become untenable and a distraction.

Think all that tracks. It seems maybe (and they can speak for themselves) that a lot of MN gripes are about bad FO decisions, but nothing unique about coaching-related weaknesses that as you said- have been a bone of contention across all 3 stops.

So I think MN had a unique experience and it would be natural that they wouldn’t immediately think of the job components (personnel decisions vs coaching) as separate entities. I would theorize that there was nothing egregious or new from a coaching perspective.

You mentioned him, but ANT is also humongous. Getting #1 overall and having that player be truly worthy of that spot makes a fanbase forget a lot. Had they gone for Wiseman or LaMelo…

Then the whole Jimmy thing. Though I’ve contended Jimmy has been generally correct about other players (eg - Simmons, Wiggins), I totally get his methods are completely abrasive and disruptive. It’s just a bizarre, bizarre history.

It’s no wonder with recent luck (Ant) and success + that crazy Butler situation that Wolves fans don’t pine for those days even if Thibs did his usual solid to strong coaching job.

[Capn'O]

I'll let the Minny fans speak to their grievances but when we hired him they were aghast and have largely been silent since the firing. They don't miss him the way that Bulls fans miss him. Thibs is a great coach and there's a lot he's right about but wears out his welcome in all of his stops because he's seemingly oblivious to his limitations and not willing to work on it. With more coming out, it's clear that happened in NY. There's not a way to move forward when your management team loses their working relationship like that. Notably, the stuff that management is frustrated about (minutes, communication, inflexibility) is the same stuff that stuck to him in other locations.

Knicks still need to make a great hire to not lose ground but they weren't about to move forward with Thibs. We would have soon reached the stage where things become untenable and a distraction.

Think all that tracks. It seems maybe (and they can speak for themselves) that a lot of MN gripes are about bad FO decisions, but nothing unique about coaching-related weaknesses that as you said- have been a bone of contention across all 3 stops.

So I think MN had a unique experience and it would be natural that they wouldn’t immediately think of the job components (personnel decisions vs coaching) as separate entities. I would theorize that there was nothing egregious or new from a coaching perspective.

You mentioned him, but ANT is also humongous. Getting #1 overall and having that player be truly worthy of that spot makes a fanbase forget a lot. Had they gone for Wiseman or LaMelo…

Then the whole Jimmy thing. Though I’ve contended Jimmy has been generally correct about other players (eg - Simmons, Wiggins), I totally get his methods are completely abrasive and disruptive. It’s just a bizarre, bizarre history.

It’s no wonder with recent luck (Ant) and success + that crazy Butler situation that Wolves fans don’t pine for those days even if Thibs did his usual solid to strong coaching job.

They definitely could have mucked around in the mire for longer without Ant. Finch is also a solid coach.

I've called Jimmy The Larry Brown of Players but The Thibs of Players might be even more spot on. He's intense and uncompromising and that's great right up until the point where it isn't anymore.

Watch on YouTube

It's too bad because Thibs is so close to just being one of those rare coaches you can install and walk away from for 10 years while he coaches you to good results. Apparently Brunson and Hart were still very much on board with him.

[bwgood77]

Happens too often where teams do the best they have done in years, fans raise expectations, coaches take even more criticism than all the crap coaches they had before, and then when they inevitably lose at some point, even if they overachieved (not saying they did), they call for the coach.

I don't necessarily in this case think it's a bad thing if they make a good hire, but too often times teams do it, when they never would have gotten there with that coach, and won't and don't necessarily go further with a new one.

[Optms]

Knicks back to irrelevancy moving forward. It was fun lol

Based on what? You all don't see how fast things change from season to season? lol for all we know, the teams in the finals right now, may never see it again.

You're right. Gotta see what moves they make in the off season. East is wide open too with Tatum injured and the Celtics collapsing.

[doogie_hauser]

I don't get why they are so keen on Jason Kidd to replace Thibs especially as they will have to give up future picks to Dallas if they want the Mavs to release him.

Typical short sighted madness from Dolan

[doogie_hauser]

Knicks back to irrelevancy moving forward. It was fun lol

Based on what? You all don't see how fast things change from season to season? lol for all we know, the teams in the finals right now, may never see it again.

You're right. Gotta see what moves they make in the off season. East is wide open too with Tatum injured and the Celtics collapsing.

Our front office is fine. Next season is likely a gap year but we will be fine after that.

Suggesting we are collapsing is nonsense

[SkyHook]

This is the best possible outcome.

https://www.nj.com/knicks/2025/06/ex-knicks-star-player-is-being-mentioned-as-coaching-fit.html

[JujitsuFlip]

This is the best possible outcome.

https://www.nj.com/knicks/2025/06/ex-knicks-star-player-is-being-mentioned-as-coaching-fit.html

The NBA has changed a lot in the last 11 years, not sure how great of a fit he is in today's NBA.

[SkyHook]

This is the best possible outcome.

https://www.nj.com/knicks/2025/06/ex-knicks-star-player-is-being-mentioned-as-coaching-fit.html

The NBA has changed a lot in the last 11 years, not sure how great of a fit he is in today's NBA.

Well, I meant best possible outcome purely from the entertainment value of the impending train wreck.

[LFGK]

This is the best possible outcome.

https://www.nj.com/knicks/2025/06/ex-knicks-star-player-is-being-mentioned-as-coaching-fit.html

The NBA has changed a lot in the last 11 years, not sure how great of a fit he is in today's NBA.

Well, I meant best possible outcome purely from the entertainment value of the impending train wreck.

This hating the Knicks thing is wild, why are they an "impending" train wreck? We still think it's the old Knicks and not the current organization, 2 games away from the finals and with the rite coach prob get there.

[SkyHook]

The NBA has changed a lot in the last 11 years, not sure how great of a fit he is in today's NBA.

Well, I meant best possible outcome purely from the entertainment value of the impending train wreck.

This hating the Knicks thing is wild, why are they an "impending" train wreck? We still think it's the old Knicks and not the current organization, 2 games away from the finals and with the rite coach prob get there.

More of a Mark Jackson thing than a Knicks thing for me, but sure.

[LFGK]

Well, I meant best possible outcome purely from the entertainment value of the impending train wreck.

This hating the Knicks thing is wild, why are they an "impending" train wreck? We still think it's the old Knicks and not the current organization, 2 games away from the finals and with the rite coach prob get there.

More of a Mark Jackson thing than a Knicks thing for me, but sure.

I can assure you M Jackson won't be the Knick coach.....

[Lalouie]

nyk just rewarded a winning coach who got them to the semis BY FIRING HIM

they will not get a coach on their A-list. they will get an asst who desires to be hc, a hard up ex who wants to get back into it, or some other 6th choice on their list..........just NOT a first choice

their best chance is jenkins or malone if either cares

[Mamba81p]

They asked for permission to interview/hire udoka and finch and now Kidd. This is Dolan doing his thing. The only way he can hire a coach is by looking at other teams. Bad news for the Knicks: Dolan is back.

Finding and hiring a new coach requires skills that Dolan doesn’t have.

[doogie_hauser]

This is the best possible outcome.

https://www.nj.com/knicks/2025/06/ex-knicks-star-player-is-being-mentioned-as-coaching-fit.html

The NBA has changed a lot in the last 11 years, not sure how great of a fit he is in today's NBA.

Well, I meant best possible outcome purely from the entertainment value of the impending train wreck.

Him or Doc Rivers replacing Thibs is my dream outcome for Knicks fan meltdowns!

[Capn'O]

I don't get why they are so keen on Jason Kidd to replace Thibs especially as they will have to give up future picks to Dallas if they want the Mavs to release him.

Typical short sighted madness from Dolan

It's looking like smoke from the Kidd camp (and possibly some from us as an agent favor) to bolster his position in Dallas. He's just hired two fairly high profile assistants down there. He's not likely going anywhere.

I've learned my lesson the last few days and am taking everything with a fat grain of salt.

[doogie_hauser]

I don't get why they are so keen on Jason Kidd to replace Thibs especially as they will have to give up future picks to Dallas if they want the Mavs to release him.

Typical short sighted madness from Dolan

It's looking like smoke from the Kidd camp (and possibly some from us as an agent favor) to bolster his position in Dallas. He's just hired two fairly high profile assistants down there. He's not likely going anywhere.

I've learned my lesson the last few days and am taking everything with a fat grain of salt.

Agreed but I don't think it's encouraging to read that the Knicks and Dolan is looking for another experienced/retread coach.

Are say Vogel, Bud or Malone that much different to Thibs ?

Johnnie Bryant or my boy Sam Cassell are crying out for a senior coaching gig.

I thought Leon Rose has carte Blanche on all front office decisions, seems like James Dolan is back to meddling and I genuinely feel bad for Knicks fans if this is the case.