MVP Rankings 1.0

[YLSKillaCam]

Lebron with another epic performance on the road. He is now averaging an absurd 37 ppg 7 rpg 7 apg in his last 4 games. On the season he is avg 28.8 ppg 8 apg and 7 rpg on 51.1 % fg and 37.4 3pt %

Its pretty clear who the front runner right now is for the award.

Haha.. They went 2-2 in those 4 games with losses to the Grizzlies and Rockets.

Kobe is still the MVP. Too many bad losses for the Cavs.

Lebron goes 16-29fg 5-8 from 3 with 44,7,6,4, while Kobe goes 7-24 and SINGLE handedly lost the game like I've never seen a superstar do (everyone in the starting lineup shot 56%, kobe 29%). Yea I'm sure he is the MVP right now

lol. Thank god you're on Lebron's side. If you were arguing for Kobe, I'd open my hand up and smack myself in the face everytime you opened your mouth.

Cavs/Lebron fans must be embarassed by you. You cherry pick Kobe's shooting percentage without noting that he had a team high in assists and one of only three players on the lakers to have a positive +/- and had the highest +/- of anyone on the team against the Jazz. "Singlehandedly lost the game" is not only hyperbole, it is just flat out inaccurate.

[LebronsCavs]

^^ I dont have to cherry pick stats, their overall stats speak for them selves. Id probably move Dirk up to no. 2 right now and maybe Melo at 3, Kobe at 4.

[INKtastic]

lol. Thank god you're on Lebron's side. If you were arguing for Kobe, I'd open my hand up and smack myself in the face everytime you opened your mouth.

Cavs/Lebron fans must be embarassed by you. You cherry pick Kobe's shooting percentage without noting that he had a team high in assists and one of only three players on the lakers to have a positive +/- and had the highest +/- of anyone on the team against the Jazz. "Singlehandedly lost the game" is not only hyperbole, it is just flat out inaccurate.

On this very page, you posted this

Also your methodology is pretty stupid. Two of those games were losses. Now you're going back and using performances in which CAVS fans were disappointed with Lebron to boost him over Bryant.

If you want to argue for Lebron, fine. Don't use stupid arguments and insult the intelligence of the people on the thread.

The memphis loss, LeBron scored 43 points on 14-29 shooting (eFG% of .552), had 13 rebounds, 6 assists, and was the only starter with a positive +/- at +6 and you want to blame that loss on him.

The fact is, you don't have the cherry pick to make a very strong case for LeBron as MVP over Kobe. I'm still waiting for the lakers to complete a real road trip before I get back to that, though. The road record sample size is still too small. But if you do project out the lakers and cavs records based on their current home and away records, you get 61 wins for LA and 59 for cleveland.

[Benedict_Boozer]

I kind of agree that Dirk should be moved up the list. He is playing some damn good basketball, year after year his teams are near the top of the standings. And some of his efficiency/raw numbers are off the charts this year.

27.3ppg / 8.3rpg / 2.8apg / 1.08spg / 1.46bpg on 47.1%fg / 33%3pt / 89%ft

25.27 PER (same as Kobe basically), His +/- is +22.1 (that's higher than James and Kobe I believe)

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910DAL.HTM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... statistics

Those are MVP caliber numbers and his team is +10 over .500 and 2nd in the West.

[INKtastic]

I have a question for Lakers fans. Based on the arguments being made to ignore a substantial statistical advantage that works against Kobe and to ignore the quality of teammates argument, why wasn't KG the MVP 2 years ago instead of Kobe? Boston won 9 more games than the Lakers and 42 more games than the prior year. They don't do either without KG. His 25.3 PER was actually better than Kobe's 24.2 PER. He was credited for transforming Boston's defense.

Wouldn't just about every single argument in this thread that's being made for Kobe over LeBron also apply to KG over Kobe 2 years ago? If you think Kobe was MVP then, how can you possibly argue him as MVP now?

[YLSKillaCam]

lol. Thank god you're on Lebron's side. If you were arguing for Kobe, I'd open my hand up and smack myself in the face everytime you opened your mouth.

Cavs/Lebron fans must be embarassed by you. You cherry pick Kobe's shooting percentage without noting that he had a team high in assists and one of only three players on the lakers to have a positive +/- and had the highest +/- of anyone on the team against the Jazz. "Singlehandedly lost the game" is not only hyperbole, it is just flat out inaccurate.

On this very page, you posted this

Also your methodology is pretty stupid. Two of those games were losses. Now you're going back and using performances in which CAVS fans were disappointed with Lebron to boost him over Bryant.

If you want to argue for Lebron, fine. Don't use stupid arguments and insult the intelligence of the people on the thread.

The memphis loss, LeBron scored 43 points on 14-29 shooting (eFG% of .552), had 13 rebounds, 6 assists, and was the only starter with a positive +/- at +6 and you want to blame that loss on him.

The fact is, you don't have the cherry pick to make a very strong case for LeBron as MVP over Kobe. I'm still waiting for the lakers to complete a real road trip before I get back to that, though. The road record sample size is still too small. But if you do project out the lakers and cavs records based on their current home and away records, you get 61 wins for LA and 59 for cleveland.

What kind of straw man is this? Point to where I said I blamed anything on Lebron??

I said Cavs fans were disappointed with Lebron's performances (See BobbieGibson's post) and I said it was disingenious to use stats from two losses in which fans were disappointed to boost Lebron over Kobe.

I never said Lebron's performances were poor or that he "singlehandedly" lost the Cavs the game.

As Mark Jackson would say, "you're better than that!"

[YLSKillaCam]

I have a question for Lakers fans. Based on the arguments being made to ignore a substantial statistical advantage that works against Kobe and to ignore the quality of teammates argument, why wasn't KG the MVP 2 years ago instead of Kobe? Boston won 9 more games than the Lakers and 42 more games than the prior year. They don't do either without KG. His 25.3 PER was actually better than Kobe's 24.2 PER. He was credited for transforming Boston's defense.

Wouldn't just about every single argument in this thread that's being made for Kobe over LeBron also apply to KG over Kobe 2 years ago? If you think Kobe was MVP then, how can you possibly argue him as MVP now?

Um, KG was MVP.

EVERYONE EVERYONE EVERYONE had him as MVP until he got injured. Then Boston did fine without him and that was the end of that.

Had KG not got injured, he would've been MVP in a landslide.

How do you not remember this?

[InBoobieWeTrust]

My new Rankings.

1.) LeBron Bryant....Kobe James. Actually....they're still tied with each other. It's going to take a few weeks of one distinctively outperforming the other for this to change for me.


3/4/5) Dirk, Melo, Nash(none of those guys are even close to Bron or Kobe)

[Dat Pass]

My new Rankings.

1.) LeBron Bryant....Kobe James. Actually....they're still tied with each other. It's going to take a few weeks of one distinctively outperforming the other for this to change for me.


3/4/5) Dirk, Melo, Nash(none of those guys are even close to Bron or Kobe)

Thank you, at least there are still some reasonable LeBron fans out there. LeBronsCavs is beyond frustrating. Kobe in 4th for MVP? F that.

I think they are very, very close right now. I think LeBron will get out in front in the next couple weeks with Kobe's injury. He shot terrible agaisnt Utah. We'll see how things go though.

[INKtastic]

I think they are very, very close right now. I think LeBron will get out in front in the next couple weeks with Kobe's injury. He shot terrible agaisnt Utah. We'll see how things go though.

by what measure are they close? Are there any statistics at all that support their being close?

[INKtastic]

I have a question for Lakers fans. Based on the arguments being made to ignore a substantial statistical advantage that works against Kobe and to ignore the quality of teammates argument, why wasn't KG the MVP 2 years ago instead of Kobe? Boston won 9 more games than the Lakers and 42 more games than the prior year. They don't do either without KG. His 25.3 PER was actually better than Kobe's 24.2 PER. He was credited for transforming Boston's defense.

Wouldn't just about every single argument in this thread that's being made for Kobe over LeBron also apply to KG over Kobe 2 years ago? If you think Kobe was MVP then, how can you possibly argue him as MVP now?

Um, KG was MVP.

EVERYONE EVERYONE EVERYONE had him as MVP until he got injured. Then Boston did fine without him and that was the end of that.

Had KG not got injured, he would've been MVP in a landslide.

How do you not remember this?

so now you're saying you discount a player's accomplishments due to the quality of their teammates. I'm not sure all lakers fans agree with you - some have been quite vocal in arguing against this concept.

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I think they are very, very close right now. I think LeBron will get out in front in the next couple weeks with Kobe's injury. He shot terrible agaisnt Utah. We'll see how things go though.

by what measure are they close? Are there any statistics at all that support their being close?

I got your PM, and my answer that keeps them close is simple...it's LeBron's effort at times this year. Last year, he had DPOTY-esque effort every night. This year? We've seen it maybe 50% of the time at BEST..at BEST. Even Mike Brown has had to call LeBron out (and the entire team for that matter) for their effort on the court in certain games. LeBron was behind Kobe a week ago for me, but ever since MB called on LeBron for more effort..we've been seeing it and we've been seeing how amazing LeBron is in every aspect of the game when he gives that effort. He was carelessly turning the ball over, he wasn't fighting through screens...he wasn't doing simple things conducive to winning Basketball games.

Now, he's only done that a few times, and was helped out in losing those 2-3 games by lackluster performances from his team..but he still has to be held somewhat accountable.

LeBron at his best(and he can still get better..which is scary), IMO, is at a level that nobody else in the NBA can get to. He was at his best virtually all year last year...and he's been at his best most of the time this year..but there's no excuse for that not to be there all the time because his best on the defensive end is predicated on effort. His physical tools, defensive skills, and mental approach to defense when he gives effort makes him amazing...and it makes the team defense that much better because the team feeds off of LeBron. When that effort is not there...it hurts the entire teams demeanor and defensive presence whether that is right or not. It hasn't been there at times and I've penalized him for it in my rankings.

It's a testament to how good LeBron is that he's basically tied with Kobe right now...

If I had to bet, I'd bet that LBJ ramps up his play(especially after MB made it clear to the team and LeBron what we were lacking)and soars into his second consecutive MVP. But so far, he's not far ahead of Kobe if ahead at all. In my opinion.

[YLSKillaCam]

I have a question for Lakers fans. Based on the arguments being made to ignore a substantial statistical advantage that works against Kobe and to ignore the quality of teammates argument, why wasn't KG the MVP 2 years ago instead of Kobe? Boston won 9 more games than the Lakers and 42 more games than the prior year. They don't do either without KG. His 25.3 PER was actually better than Kobe's 24.2 PER. He was credited for transforming Boston's defense.

Wouldn't just about every single argument in this thread that's being made for Kobe over LeBron also apply to KG over Kobe 2 years ago? If you think Kobe was MVP then, how can you possibly argue him as MVP now?

Um, KG was MVP.

EVERYONE EVERYONE EVERYONE had him as MVP until he got injured. Then Boston did fine without him and that was the end of that.

Had KG not got injured, he would've been MVP in a landslide.

How do you not remember this?

so now you're saying you discount a player's accomplishments due to the quality of their teammates. I'm not sure all lakers fans agree with you - some have been quite vocal in arguing against this concept.

Again, you're creating straw men. It would be better if you just focus on what I write. I choose my words carefuly.

First, I never said I discounted KG's accomplishments. The reason KG was unanimously picked as MVP is because people said that he anchored their defense and that the celtics would not be nearly as good without him. That was the conventional wisdom.

Then KG got injured. He missed over 10% of the season and the Celtics won 83% of the games he was out. Clearly, KG's on the court impact was marginal at best to the Celtics success (at least through the stretch of games he was away).

The point, however, is that before KG missed time, he was the runaway favorite for MVP. He was given the benefit of the doubt until it was proven wrong. Kobe is putting up way better numbers than KG that year and is playing 1st team defense.

THAT being said, since the Lakers are no longer #1 in the standings, I have no problem with Lebron being MVP. I think Kobe, with the team he has, should lead his team to #1. If he does that, I will argue strongly that he's the MVP. If he doesn't, I'll be less enthusiastic.

[Dat Pass]

I think they are very, very close right now. I think LeBron will get out in front in the next couple weeks with Kobe's injury. He shot terrible agaisnt Utah. We'll see how things go though.

by what measure are they close? Are there any statistics at all that support their being close?

You can argue with me until you're blue in the face about how much more talent Kobe has, but the fact is the Cavs have too many bad losses this early on. (Grizzlies, Bobcats, Wizards, Bulls and Raptors) And Kobe kept the Lakers at the top even without Gasol. (8-3)

LeBrons numbers obviously are better. But I dont think that its enough at this point to offset some of their bad losses. 5 losses to bad teams this early on (IMO) hurts his MVP chances right now. And as Ive mentioned before, MVP voters dont seem to put a whole lot into players stats. They tend to heavily favor the teams play. They will probably look at the very basics, which is:

Kobe - 28-5-4 on 48%
LeBron - 29-7-8 on 51%

Obviously Im not going to argue that LeBrons stats arent better. But enough to offset a 3 game difference in the loss column? Maybe, maybe not.. Thats why I think its close.

I think the next couple weeks will tell alot. Kobe is hurt and the Lakers will start to go on the road alot more. We'll see how they play. And the Cavs have some tough games coming up too (@Mavs, @Suns, @Lakers, Hawks 2x, Rockets, @Nuggets, @Blazers). So alot can happen.

[kaiiu2324]

The reason the Cavs lost to those bad teams is because they play down to the level of their opponents. They beat all the teams over .500 except the Celtics and that was the 1st game of the year.

[Dat Pass]

The reason the Cavs lost to those bad teams is because they play down to the level of their opponents.

Wait, are you trying to suggest that LeBron shouldnt be punished for that?

[kaiiu2324]

No.But I honestly think if you put Lebron on that Lakers team, they would be undefeated.

[Dat Pass]

No.But I honestly think if you put Lebron on that Lakers team, they would be undefeated.

LeBron trolls are getting worse by the minute around here...

LeBron cant even beat teams like the Grizzlies, Bobcats, Bulls, Raptors and Wizards, and you want to come on here and make that kind of claim? GTFO.

[kaiiu2324]

You sound stupid.How am I a troll. You internet nerds over use that word. This is MVP discussion not Lakers discussion.And excuse Lebron for not having the luxury of having teammates as good as good as Gasol,Bynum,Artest, and Odom.Oh and not to mention 10 time champ Phil Jackson.Replace Kobe with Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Cp3 or any other superstar and I bet they have a better record through 22 games. You put all the blame on Lebron for losing to those teams tell me how Kobe did against any of those teams any year from 05 to 07.

[JimMurray]

You sound stupid.How am I a troll. You internet nerds over use that word. This is MVP discussion not Lakers discussion.And excuse Lebron for not having the luxury of having teammates as good as good as Gasol,Bynum,Artest, and Odom.Oh and not to mention 10 time champ Phil Jackson.Replace Kobe with Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Cp3 or any other superstar and I bet they have a better record through 22 games. You put all the blame on Lebron for losing to those teams tell me how Kobe did against any of those teams any year from 05 to 07.

By your own admission, Lebron teams play down to the competition...so how could he possibly be undefeated on the Lakers? What you said was a trollish statement.