ECSF: P1 | (1) Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers (4) | TIED 0-0

[niQ]

My Raptors will have to deal with this BS now

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[otwok]

I feel Indiana was a bad matchup for the Pacers. I also do think that Toronto is the better team but man they just can't be trusted. Especially now since the Cavs will have found their groove. Cavs in 6.

[Throwback24]

Toronto has 0 chance if this happens

He's very capable. He's always open for 3s and the Raptors bigs have troubles defending him off the bounce for some reason

Mainly just Ibaka.

But Ibaka gets killed by any above average starting PF so that's not saying much

Bird brain Ibaka

[missionman]

logically hard to pick the cavs.

1. the narrative that Lebron owns raptors is false. Cavs steamrolled everyone in east last year and had Kyrie. This a similar narrative to Wall and Beal owning the Raptors. Washington's sweep and Cavs' sweep are old news, and this is a different team, and everyone is healthy.
2. Cavs were lucky to survive Pacers - Dipo had two horrendous - horrendous - shooting games, and cavs barely won those games. There is NO way Demar or Lowry go 5 for 20 and 2 for 17 in games. If htey don't have it going on they just won't shoot it because they will trust their teams.
3. Deep bench means Raptors can tire Lebron out (more). One of the issues with ISO-ball, and simple PNR games is it actually gives other players that aren't involved in the play a rest on the court. Constant movement means the defence gets tired. This is the beauty of having a productive bench and hence why raptors 4th quarter d has been so good all year.
4. there is probably legitimate truth to narrative around Lowry and Demar getting scared by the big stage. But after that Wizards series I feel as good as ever about Demar and Klow.
5. Saying raptors don;t have anyone to defend lebron is true and false - no one does. But Raptors can throw out OG, Siakam, Ibaka on the post, even - Demar and Powell can show different looks from time to time. Everyone just needs to make him work.

Have to pick the raptors. They are just a better team

[BballMania47]

I do expect Love do have a good series. The Raptors are a much better matchup for him due to the lack of length compared to Pacers. I also think the Pacers were more of a matchup problem. If Love can average 15-18 points, which I expect, the Raps have absolutely no one to guard playoff Bron. I like the Cavs chances.

[John Murdoch]

I wanna say the road ends here for LBJ but Raps dont seem to have the mental fortitude to defeat him it seems

[Throwback24]

I wanna say the road ends here for LBJ but Raps dont seem to have the mental fortitude to defeat him it seems

Its not mental, the Cavs gameplan is simple. They ask our guards to make open shots and our bigs to make the right reads and passes and JV/Ibaka are two of the worst passing big men in NBA history.

[lebron stopper]

I wanna say the road ends here for LBJ but Raps dont seem to have the mental fortitude to defeat him it seems

Its not mental, the Cavs gameplan is simple. They ask our guards to make open shots and our bigs to make the right reads and passes and JV/Ibaka are two of the worst passing big men in NBA history.

Seriously when can Doof Casey dictate the game for once and impose his will instead of getting spooked into matching down so easily?

[Throwback24]

I wanna say the road ends here for LBJ but Raps dont seem to have the mental fortitude to defeat him it seems

Its not mental, the Cavs gameplan is simple. They ask our guards to make open shots and our bigs to make the right reads and passes and JV/Ibaka are two of the worst passing big men in NBA history.

Seriously when can Doof Casey dictate the game for once and impose his will instead of getting spooked into matching down so easily?

He has a very rigid way of thinking and coaching, Masai would have to come down and tell him personally.

[dacrusha]

Toronto 4-1.

LeBron can't play any better and they can barely win at home against the 5th seed.

Raps are not winning 4-1. They have no one that can stop Lebron and I guarantee Love plays better. Cavs have just enough guys that can hit shots to cause issues for the raps. Plus don't underestimate how the Raps are historical chokers in the playoffs.

Cavs in 6. Maybe even 5.

They don't need to stop Lebron. Let him score 50.
Contain everyone else.

Cleveland needs to score 110 every game to beat Toronto. That ain't happening.

That's exactly what the Pacers did and Lebron still won, 1 on 10.

[Benedict_Boozer]

5. Saying raptors don;t have anyone to defend lebron is true and false - no one does. But Raptors can throw out OG, Siakam, Ibaka on the post, even - Demar and Powell can show different looks from time to time. Everyone just needs to make him work.

You made some good points other than this.

Lebron completely owns Ibaka, and Siakam/OG aren't going to do anything to slow down Lebron, neither is strong enough to keep him from the rim. To me the bigger problem is none of those guys really make LBJ work defensively. He will be able to roam and conserve energy, that is where GSW killed the Cavs - LBJ either had to guard Green or KD, there was no hiding.

[mtcan]

Raps are not winning 4-1. They have no one that can stop Lebron and I guarantee Love plays better. Cavs have just enough guys that can hit shots to cause issues for the raps. Plus don't underestimate how the Raps are historical chokers in the playoffs.

Cavs in 6. Maybe even 5.

They don't need to stop Lebron. Let him score 50.
Contain everyone else.

Cleveland needs to score 110 every game to beat Toronto. That ain't happening.

That's exactly what the Pacers did and Lebron still won, 1 on 10.

It came down to game 7 and a 2 possession game against Indiana. Toronto is an arguably a better team with more offensive weapons and better defenders on Lebron.

[Heej]

My Raptors will have to deal with this BS now

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He mightve sold it a little bit but Bogdanovic got unlucky and pushed him at the exact second he lifted his left leg off the ground to step over and Bron straight up lost his balance. This time wasn't a flop, Bogdanovic was physical like this all series and he chose to bump him in the tiniest window between LeBron establishing his stance on a screen.

I'm calling Cleveland will win another negative point differential series. They'll get blown out 1 or 2 games but the Raps crunch time woes will come home to roost vs the best clutch player in the league for 4 games in this series. The Raps are gonna have to send help for Anunoby and Bron will rifle a pass to one of his shooters for a big 3 and the raps sphincters will tighten. I guarantee this will happen for 4 big 3s this series down the stretch

[phoenixnorth]

Last year the Raptors played the Cavs with Corey Joseph, Patrick Patterson... and Demarre Carroll; hopefully that puts perspective to anyone basing this year's series on last years.

Don't loop Joseph in with the other two. Joseph is a solid player and if not for financials, would have not wanted to see him go. Great teammate, good defensively, solid on offense (slightly over dribbles at time...though I blame Casey).

Joseph in this new Raptors offense would have looked great.

In my opinion, I think Joseph was part of the problem. Would much rather have Wright and FVV and their skillsets in place of him.

[BigShaq34]

Last year the Raptors played the Cavs with Corey Joseph, Patrick Patterson... and Demarre Carroll; hopefully that puts perspective to anyone basing this year's series on last years.

Don't loop Joseph in with the other two. Joseph is a solid player and if not for financials, would have not wanted to see him go. Great teammate, good defensively, solid on offense (slightly over dribbles at time...though I blame Casey).

Joseph in this new Raptors offense would have looked great.

In my opinion, I think Joseph was part of the problem. Would much rather have Wright and FVV and their skillsets in place of him.

i agree. Wright and Vanvleet are better players than Joseph imo

[dacrusha]

They don't need to stop Lebron. Let him score 50.
Contain everyone else.

Cleveland needs to score 110 every game to beat Toronto. That ain't happening.

That's exactly what the Pacers did and Lebron still won, 1 on 10.

It came down to game 7 and a 2 possession game against Indiana. Toronto is an arguably a better team with more offensive weapons and better defenders on Lebron.

No doubt, Toronto is the better team, but Pacers matchup better vs the Cavs than the Raptors do.

Pacers stopped everyone but LBJ in the POs... but Cavs scrubs rained 3s on us in the RS.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Lebron completely owns Ibaka, and Siakam/OG aren't going to do anything to slow down Lebron, neither is strong enough to keep him from the rim. To me the bigger problem is none of those guys really make LBJ work defensively. He will be able to roam and conserve energy, that is where GSW killed the Cavs - LBJ either had to guard Green or KD, there was no hiding.

I don't think it's the GSW that are the issue for the Cavs. This is a different Cavs team. They might still win - wouldn't surprise me - but the Pacers had plenty of easy defensive assignments for Lebron which would have allowed him to roam. That didn't work out so amazingly because the Cavs are missing much in the way of other perimeter defenders. If Lebron is roaming, while covering OG or Siakam, that means guys like Korver, JR Smith and Calderon are guarding Lowry and Derozan. I think this series is going to be really high scoring and really close. The idea that the Cavs are going to have an easier time with the Raptors than the Pacers is... possible, I suppose, but not particularly grounded. And Siakam and OG can absolutely make Lebron work on defense - they aren't stars, but they're constantly moving and cutting.

[Duffman100]

Last year the Raptors played the Cavs with Corey Joseph, Patrick Patterson... and Demarre Carroll; hopefully that puts perspective to anyone basing this year's series on last years.

Don't loop Joseph in with the other two. Joseph is a solid player and if not for financials, would have not wanted to see him go. Great teammate, good defensively, solid on offense (slightly over dribbles at time...though I blame Casey).

Joseph in this new Raptors offense would have looked great.

In my opinion, I think Joseph was part of the problem. Would much rather have Wright and FVV and their skillsets in place of him.

I'd rather Van Vleet and Wright. But keep in mind the offensive strategy was a lot of Joseph dribbling (unlike his days in SA).

Joseph was a big reason we were competitive against Cleveland. I just don't like him grouped in with the dead weights that were Carroll and Patterson.

[missionman]

5. Saying raptors don;t have anyone to defend lebron is true and false - no one does. But Raptors can throw out OG, Siakam, Ibaka on the post, even - Demar and Powell can show different looks from time to time. Everyone just needs to make him work.

You made some good points other than this.

Lebron completely owns Ibaka, and Siakam/OG aren't going to do anything to slow down Lebron, neither is strong enough to keep him from the rim. To me the bigger problem is none of those guys really make LBJ work defensively. He will be able to roam and conserve energy, that is where GSW killed the Cavs - LBJ either had to guard Green or KD, there was no hiding.

Hey thanks for saying i made some good points!

I look at who Pacers threw at lebron - Bogdanovic? Sabonis? Turner? Lebron lit all of them up. And Pacers aren't any better on the offensive end really than OG and Ibaka who can hit open 3's, and Siakam who is everywhere (and can hit the open 3 at a 20% rate...).

Lebron will score all his points regardless, but his roaming and conserving energy will be difficult because of Raptors ball movement and balanced scoring. Hence, cavs brutal defensive metrics. When Lebron took defensive plays 'off' (not helping), pacers capitalized.

With all due respect to Pacers - they are either greater than the sum of their parts OR the Cavs really aren't that good. I don't think anyone can say that Pacers are a better team than the Raptors at this point.

It has to be a different Cavs team then any version of the 2017/2018 Cavs and/or a different version of the Raptors for Cavs to win.

(Cavs in 6 - <sigh>)

[Tha King]

I get that the Cavs barely got past the Pacers but Toronto didn't exactly look impressive against a mediocre 8th seed Washington team. The Wizards - with all their late season troubles and chemistry issues - were about even with the Raptors outside two fourth quarter collapses. With a healthy Porter that's probably a seven game series also.

Going with Lebron in 6