Woj: Celtics and Lakers Engaged with Pelicans on Anthony Davis Trade

[LKN]

To be brutally honest I don't think any of the prospects being discussed except maaaaybe Tatum are worth that much. I'd rather try to get a haul of draft picks for AD if I were the Pels. The only reason I might go for Tatum is because he can actually shoot.

[TheNewEra]

Ball + 4 for Zach Lavine ? Tf thats a massive overpay

That isn't the proposed deal though:
4+Ball for Zach+7

Ball almost lost his spot to Rondo. Just sign Rubio to the Bulls

[Gus McCrae]

Out of Kuzma, Ball and Ingram I’d prefer to keep Ball. But as long as we keep one of them I’m all in.

[LKN]

Ball + 4 for Zach Lavine ? Tf thats a massive overpay

That isn't the proposed deal though:
4+Ball for Zach+7

Ball almost lost his spot to Rondo. Just sign Rubio to the Bulls

Ball and Rondo had the same ORTG this year (which was the worst on the team of anyone who played any kind of significant minutes)

[teke184]

If Kuzma is the preferred asset that just shows how little they value Ingram and Ball.

Hard to see any trade go down with Kuzma as the frontliner. David should continue to hold out. They need to offer more and the Knicks need to get involved to have anychance at Kyrie and KD

Kuzma isn’t the “preferred asset”. It’s posturing to get more out of LA either directly or indirectly.

Either he goes to the Pels to add value to the trade or he gets shipped elsewhere to bring in more picks or players.


I don’t particularly want Kuzma but I would want the Pels to completely strip the Lakers of as many assets as possible on general principle at this point.

[TheNewEra]

If Kuzma is the preferred asset that just shows how little they value Ingram and Ball.

Hard to see any trade go down with Kuzma as the frontliner. David should continue to hold out. They need to offer more and the Knicks need to get involved to have anychance at Kyrie and KD

They should be taking all three wtf is going on. If they don’t like Ingram and Ball should flip them to other teams for more assets and picks.

[TheNewEra]

If Kuzma is the preferred asset that just shows how little they value Ingram and Ball.

Hard to see any trade go down with Kuzma as the frontliner. David should continue to hold out. They need to offer more and the Knicks need to get involved to have anychance at Kyrie and KD

Kuzma isn’t the “preferred asset”. It’s posturing to get more out of LA either directly or indirectly.

Either he goes to the Pels to add value to the trade or he gets shipped elsewhere to bring in more picks or players.


I don’t particularly want Kuzma but I would want the Pels to completely strip the Lakers of as many assets as possible on general principle at this point.

Kuzma not being injury prone does give him some solid value. If you look at Kuzma vs Ingram then take in health risk and money due I can see the argument for Kuzma.

If Kuzma could play SF it would be one thing or if he wouldn’t be a headache off the bench. Pelicans need to get all three plus the pick

[thebigbird]

To be brutally honest I don't think any of the prospects being discussed except maaaaybe Tatum are worth that much. I'd rather try to get a haul of draft picks for AD if I were the Pels. The only reason I might go for Tatum is because he can actually shoot.

Rookie Tatum shot well in the regular season, but since then he shot 32.4% from 3 in the 2018 playoffs, 37.3% from 3 in the 18/19 regular season, and 32.3% from 3 in the 2019 playoffs. He also shot 32.6% from 3-10 feet, 43% from 10-16 feet and 34.9% from 16-3pt line. Kuzma was better from all 3, and Ingram was better from 3-10 feet and 16-3pt line. I'm not sure that there's anything that really make Tatum better now, or even a better prospect, other than age. He's younger than Kuzma, but only a few months younger than Ingram.

[levon]

Apparently there's talks of Zach Lavine (Bulls as the 3rd team) for the Lakers 4th pick.

[BNM]

This should be obvious... but the reason the Lakers (and possibly other teams) value Kuzma over Ingram is simple:

Kuzma is still under contract for 2 more years at roughly 2 million in 19-20 and 3.5 million in 20-21.

Ingram has one year left on his deal at 7.2 million

(at least according to bbref)

Yep, the $5.3 million difference between Ingram's and Kuzma's salaries could very well determine if the Lakers have enough cap room left to offer anyone else (Kyrie, Kawhi, Butler, etc.) a max contract.

Of course, according to Woj, none of those guys have the Lakers on their short list, but still the inability to offer a max contract limits the quality of the potential free agents they could attract - especially with so many other teams having cap space and teams holding Bird rights to players like Middleton, Butler, Tobias Harris, etc. With so many teams having cap space, and with Durant's injury, a lot of very good, but not great, players are going to be overpaid. That extra $5.3 million could be the difference between landing one of those guys and not.

[LKN]

To be brutally honest I don't think any of the prospects being discussed except maaaaybe Tatum are worth that much. I'd rather try to get a haul of draft picks for AD if I were the Pels. The only reason I might go for Tatum is because he can actually shoot.

Rookie Tatum shot well in the regular season, but since then he shot 32.4% from 3 in the 2018 playoffs, 37.3% from 3 in the 18/19 regular season, and 32.3% from 3 in the 2019 playoffs. He also shot 32.6% from 3-10 feet, 43% from 10-16 feet and 34.9% from 16-3pt line. Kuzma was better from all 3, and Ingram was better from 3-10 feet and 16-3pt line.

Playoffs are a small sample size (and these other guys didn't even make the playoffs).

Regular season Tatum has shot 43.4% from 3 and 37.3% from 3. He also shoots 84% from the FT line.

I'm not saying he's going to be a great shooter... but he certainly shows more potential than any of these other guys. Kuzma and esp Ingram can't even shoot FTs at league average.

I'm very skeptical of guys who can't shoot FTs.

I'm not even saying I value Tatum more than the draft picks... but he has IMO the best potential as a shooter and can play defense (he's also a good rebounder).

[MrPerfect1]

To me, Ingram is a negative asset. His impact is questionable and has a huge health risk. Even if that all ends up being overblown, as a former #2 pick he is going to want big money on his next contract. Unless he ridiculously improves, getting Ingram for 1 year and then having him demand $25 Mil/year is pretty gross.

Does anyone here think Ingram at 25/year is a good outcome for a team? He would have to massively improve quickly for that to be the case. 15/year I could work with, but he will be expecting WAY more than that

[thebigbird]

To be brutally honest I don't think any of the prospects being discussed except maaaaybe Tatum are worth that much. I'd rather try to get a haul of draft picks for AD if I were the Pels. The only reason I might go for Tatum is because he can actually shoot.

Rookie Tatum shot well in the regular season, but since then he shot 32.4% from 3 in the 2018 playoffs, 37.3% from 3 in the 18/19 regular season, and 32.3% from 3 in the 2019 playoffs. He also shot 32.6% from 3-10 feet, 43% from 10-16 feet and 34.9% from 16-3pt line. Kuzma was better from all 3, and Ingram was better from 3-10 feet and 16-3pt line.

Playoffs are a small sample size (and these other guys didn't even make the playoffs).

Regular season Tatum has shot 43.4% from 3 and 37.3% from 3. He also shoots 84% from the FT line.

I'm not saying he's going to be a great shooter... but he certainly shows more potential than any of these other guys. Kuzma and esp Ingram can't even shoot FTs at league average.

I'm very skeptical of guys who can't shoot FTs.

I'm not even saying I value Tatum more than the draft picks... but he has IMO the best potential as a shooter and can play defense (he's also a good rebounder).

I don't know what the league average from the line is, but Kuzma shot 75% last season. Tatum is better from 3 and the line while Kuzma is better from mid-range. Tatum is the better defender though, I agree there. Imo, we need a third season of Tatum to be able to judge his potential because his second year was arguably a big step down from his first year. It's hard to tell which one is him.

[Forte IV]

To me, Ingram is a negative asset. His impact is questionable and has a huge health risk. Even if that all ends up being overblown, as a former #2 pick he is going to want big money on his next contract. Unless he ridiculously improves, getting Ingram for 1 year and then having him demand $25 Mil/year is pretty gross.

Does anyone here think Ingram at 25/year is a good outcome for a team? He would have to massively improve quickly for that to be the case. 15/year I could work with, but he will be expecting WAY more than that

I tend to agree here. Especially considering I doubt he can really work on his game with the blood clot thing right? He'd essentially still be the non 3 point shooting, bad free throw shooting, 18 ppg on a bad team wing he was this past year.

[The Corey's]

So what am i missing? Didnt the Lakers offer them everything at the deadline? Is the 4th overall pick so much value they think they can withhold one of the already offered players?

[NBAFan93]

Apparently there's talks of Zach Lavine (Bulls as the 3rd team) for the Lakers 4th pick.

That’s not a bad get. Lakers send Lavine and some future firsts I’d really consider that if I was NOLA. Maybe send Ball to Phoenix for something else and send that too.

Lavine for the 4th pick alone sounds kind of low for Chicago to take though. Maybe they are getting more than just 4th pick from Lakers if the rumor is true.

[Pointgod]

This should be obvious... but the reason the Lakers (and possibly other teams) value Kuzma over Ingram is simple:

Kuzma is still under contract for 2 more years at roughly 2 million in 19-20 and 3.5 million in 20-21.

Ingram has one year left on his deal at 7.2 million

(at least according to bbref)

It doesn’t matter though because the Lakers are going to blow all their cap space if they get Davis. They can go above the cap to resign Ingram. It’s just a negotiating tactic. Pelicans must be scared off by Ingram’s blood clot issue.

See, I think the Lakers really want to dump Ingram's contract and use that money for something else. I think they see Kuzma as super cheap scoring that leaves them money to sign other guys

But the difference between Kuzma and Ingram is all but eliminated because you’re taking more salary back in any Davis deal. Even the idea of moving Ingram for salary relief doesn’t make a ton of sense because it only opens up 7 million in salary, not enough to sign anyone noteworthy.

[FlatearthZorro]

To be brutally honest I don't think any of the prospects being discussed except maaaaybe Tatum are worth that much. I'd rather try to get a haul of draft picks for AD if I were the Pels. The only reason I might go for Tatum is because he can actually shoot.

He ranks pretty well on defense, too. The only minus in his game this year was that he needed to go more to the basket, but I feel like in a situation where he's a clear 2nd option, that will come, too...

[NBAFan93]

So what am i missing? Didnt the Lakers offer them everything at the deadline? Is the 4th overall pick so much value they think they can withhold one of the already offered players?

Their already offered players aren’t worth much. None of them alone are worth as much as the 4th pick so I see the logic, but they got to send something out and NOLA at least got to get one or two of them - their value is actually more based how much they make (cheapest salaried player worth the most) and how much longer they have on their rookie deal cause you’re more taking them for the player they may be in the future and not now.

Value Based on Play/Potential Play
Ingram
Kuzma/Ball
Ball/Kuzma

Value Based on Availability (how injury prone)
Kuzma
Ingram/Ball
Ball/Ingram

Value Based on Salary and Time Left on Deal
Kuzma
Ball
Ingram

Kuzma is the top of 2 of these categories and that’s why if you had to pick one of the 3 you’d want Kuzma. Still doesn’t mean he’s good though.

[heatwillbeback]

Apparently there's talks of Zach Lavine (Bulls as the 3rd team) for the Lakers 4th pick.

I don’t get the Lavine hype. He is good being paid as if he was great. He is a negative asset to a team imo.

If this is a possibility for Bulls, great for them.