NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 4: MVP Thread's Revenge)

[slick_watts]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

[Bob8]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

You know why, because Mavs still make less TOs. Luka is entire system there, he basically is doing everything, so his TOs numbers doesn't matter in the end. He could play like Sga, but then you would have players like THJ and Green handling the ball much more, believe me, Mavs don't want that.

I do admit that Luka might like too much fancy passes sometimes, se he could for sure cut a little his TOs, but in the end basketball is being played for fans not stat nerds.

[vulture]

Tatum begging for the mvp is just sad to read. When you’re not as good as joker, SGA, luka or giannis all you can do is campaign in the media. Self awareness is important.

[Lakers In 5]

Tatum begging for the mvp is just sad to read. When you’re not as good as joker, SGA, luka or giants all you can do is campaign in the media. Self awareness is important.

Begging worked last year, so I can understand why he is trying. His message is really funny, though. ''I am not as good as the other players, but I have a better supporting cast, therefore I should win MVP.''

[vulture]

Tatum begging for the mvp is just sad to read. When you’re not as good as joker, SGA, luka or giants all you can do is campaign in the media. Self awareness is important.

Begging worked last year, so I can understand why he is trying. His message is really funny, though. ''I am not as good as the other players, but I have a better supporting cast, therefore I should win MVP.''

It definitely worked for smart to get DPOY so it must be the Celtics playbook to win awards.

[Yuri36]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

[Primedeion]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

[slick_watts]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

this wasn't directed at luka specifically, he's just an apt compairson who is mentioned in the thread. shai is historically effective at taking care of the ball for someone who scores as often as he does. that should be taken into account when evaluating his season when, by default, all the other high scorers are far worse than him in this respect.

[dygaction]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

If ORTG tell you the truth, we have GOAT starting center in Mavs:
Dwight Powell in the past 6 years, with 221 games starting: 135/134/136/142/140/150, with a career average of 132 as he only played with Luka for 6 years.
Embiid career average is 117 and career high is 126 this season.
Shaq career average was 113 and career high was 120.

[Duke4life831]

Just from a stats point of view, I dont see how anyone can be in the situation of "its theirs to lose". Just looking at some of the stats, seems like kind of a toss up between Jokic and SGA for the lead. There is a game and a half difference in the standings between OKC and Denver, so its not like a huge difference there either.

I think right now its a battle between Jokic and SGA, and whoever has the better ending to the season (individual and team) can easily become the easy favorite.

Then with the way Luka and the Mavs are playing lately, if they shoot up the standings I can see him making some noise as well.

But ya definitely seems like a good tight race right now.

[Primedeion]

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

If ORTG tell you the truth, we have GOAT starting center in Mavs:
Dwight Powell in the past 6 years, with 221 games starting: 135/134/136/142/140/150, with a career average of 132 as he only played with Luka for 6 years.
Embiid career average is 117 and career high is 126 this season.
Shaq career average was 113 and career high was 120.

No, it's just a measure of efficiency, and Shai has been way more efficient than Luka. Nobody said it measures impact or goodness, but you keep setting up those strawmen.

[Bob8]

i find it interesting how nobody talks about turnovers much with high volume scorers. shai is averaging 3 turnovers per 100 possessions this season which is the lowest of any 30ppg scorer in nba history by a decent amount. luka may be a superior playmaker but shai's otherworldly ability to take care of the ball should be part of any discussion and it rarely is.

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

Look, it doesn't go like that in basketball. Mavs are 2nd in TOV, better than OKC, if Luka had only 2.1 TOV, like SGA, than Mavs would have had only 10.6 TOV, far the best in Nba, Phily would have been second with 12.1. That's very unrealistic number and should tell you that Luka is already doing pretty good job. My hint to you is, SGA and Luka doesn't have the same responsibilities considering playmaking, which is very evident, if you actually watching them play. But you can of course believe whatever you want. Numbers are great, I like them very much, but if you don't understand the context, it's better not to look at them.

[dygaction]

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

If ORTG tell you the truth, we have GOAT starting center in Mavs:
Dwight Powell in the past 6 years, with 221 games starting: 135/134/136/142/140/150, with a career average of 132 as he only played with Luka for 6 years.
Embiid career average is 117 and career high is 126 this season.
Shaq career average was 113 and career high was 120.

No, it's just a measure of efficiency, and Shai has been way more efficient than Luka. Nobody said it measures impact or goodness, but you keep setting up those strawmen.

You can make a point by using something valid, and there are. If the above example is not enough to tell you how nonsense it is to use individual ORTG, I give up. Use some reverse argument we see often here, you can bash Powell, but if 6 years in a row he is showing historically great ORTG, you must be wrong to say he no good.
Also Mike Conley is more efficient than SGA based on this all inclusive ORTG formula.

[MFT5]

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

Look, it doesn't go like that in basketball. Mavs are 2nd in TOV, better than OKC, if Luka had only 2.1 TOV, like SGA, than Mavs would have had only 10.6 TOV, far the best in Nba, Phily would have been second with 12.1. That's very unrealistic number and should tell you that Luka is already doing pretty good job. My hint to you is, SGA and Luka doesn't have the same responsibilities considering playmaking, which is very evident, if you actually watching them play. But you can of course believe whatever you want. Numbers are great, I like them very much, but if you don't understand the context, it's better not to look at them.

GOAT POST

[Special_Puppy]

SGA and Luka people fighting while Jokic is on the top of the market is really weird

[5IVE5TAR5]

SGA and Luka people fighting while Jokic is on the top of the market is really weird

Lol finishing 2nd place MVP is still impressive to fight for

[GSP]

Mitchell shouldnt be in lead or anything but he should be getting a lot more love. Cavs are hot trash without him this year

I dunno what happened to Garland but his scoring fell off a cliff or was just a mirage before. I dont know how he ever had a 50 piece his scoring is not like that

[Primedeion]

Lol watch the last Mavs-Thunder game and then if you understand just a tiny bit about basketball, you will understand why SGA "takes care" of the basketball better than Luka.
A few small clues: playmaking responsability and ball in hand time

Except Shai has far superior turnover economy even after accounting for the gap in AST%, which is why he's way more efficient

Shai: 131 individual ORTG
Luka: 123 individual ORTG

Yes, AST% is included in the formula.

Look, it doesn't go like that in basketball.

No, it goes exactly like that. A turnover is much more damaging than a missed shot and Shai is GOAT level at avoiding mistakes. He's been way more efficient than Luka.

[Primedeion]

If ORTG tell you the truth, we have GOAT starting center in Mavs:
Dwight Powell in the past 6 years, with 221 games starting: 135/134/136/142/140/150, with a career average of 132 as he only played with Luka for 6 years.
Embiid career average is 117 and career high is 126 this season.
Shaq career average was 113 and career high was 120.

No, it's just a measure of efficiency, and Shai has been way more efficient than Luka. Nobody said it measures impact or goodness, but you keep setting up those strawmen.

You can make a point by using something valid, and there are. If the above example is not enough to tell you how nonsense it is to use individual ORTG, I give up.

No you just don't understand the stat. And yes, Conley has more efficient than Shai this season.

It's not a measure of how much offensive impact a player is having or how good he is on that end. You'll notice that I never said that Shai is a better or more impactful offensive player than Luka.

I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to you.

[dygaction]

No, it's just a measure of efficiency, and Shai has been way more efficient than Luka. Nobody said it measures impact or goodness, but you keep setting up those strawmen.

You can make a point by using something valid, and there are. If the above example is not enough to tell you how nonsense it is to use individual ORTG, I give up.

No you just don't understand the stat. And yes, Conley has more efficient than Shai this season.

It's not a measure of how much offensive impact a player is having or how good he is on that end. You'll notice that I never said that Shai is a better or more impactful offensive player than Luka.

I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to you.

Ok, so Powell has much higher ORTG than Conley, Conley is higher than SGA, SGA is higher than Luka. Meaning there is a trend flowing toward: Powell - Conley - SGA - Steph - Durant, sounds about right