Curry has dominated this era, but would get crushed in the 90's

[ScrantonBulls]

what an awful, ignorant take lol.

You just don't remember how tough the 90s were. If 90s rules were allowed today, guys would have to wear protective equipment. It was basically the NFL. Every team had 5-10 All-NBA defenders on their roster.

You put a guy like Jordan into the league today, and he easily averages 40+ PPG on 70%+ TS with an EPM of +15.

All I'm seeing here are facts, even with a hint of sarcasm. Guys like me, OP and Jamaaliver don't need any silly statistics or data driven essays to try and explain to us how the league was. We saw it. We LIVED it. It's softer than baby**** now. Back then you had Bill Laimbeer trying to take your head off if you dated drive to the hoop. We don't need some advanced statistic developed by a nerd who never played basketball. We've got our eyes and most importantly, we've got our guts. You just KNOW these things.

[The Servant]

Reggie Miller seemed to do fine, and I have Curry as a god mode Reggie Miller on offence basically.

[dhsilv2]

Why are people comparing steph to regular shooters lol? He is a transcendent one and that would not just disappear in another era. You are basically saying he would be a regular shooter in the 90s which the premise is absolutely stupid

Actually no one is saying he would be a regular shooter. We're saying he would be worse. Those aren't the same.

The thread literally says he'd be "crushed". If the thread said "he might only be as good as MJ" then ok...fair.

[Jamaaliver]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

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[Jamaaliver]

Man, I hope we can get a Rockets vs Warriors 1st Round Playoff Matchup.

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[og15]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Certainly, though your team defensive principles will also play a big part, not just the individual.

I don't think the argument is that 36/37 year old Curry would be a superstar in the 90's though. Curry was fine when he started his career against teams still in that mold of 00's defense, which was statistically tougher than the 90's.

Of course illegal defense also helped with bigs dominating more on offense as it made post offense far easier to be a focal point, and of course the talent that is at the top is not constant, it ebbs and flows.

Younger Curry went against many different defensive teams and individual defenders, so yea, the more than a step slower version will find it even harder, for sure.

Just think of how many guys were at 36 or 37 years old. Outside of like Karl Malone, how many guys were even still top level stars?

36 year old Hakeem was a 19/10 player and by 37 he was a 10/6 player.

Jordan didn't play at 37, but he was not prime Jordan level when he came back older of course, no surprise, but was already not prime Jordan at 34.

35 year old Barkley was a 15/11 player for 20 games and didn't play at 36/37.

36 year old Pippen was an 11/5/6 super glue guy / playmaker.

Ray Allen was a 14/3/2 player at 36

Shaq's last year as a real high impact star was 33 years old, at 36 he had a resurgence with Phoenix with 18/8 but shot 44% FG in the playoffs.

Just some off my head, but etc, etc..

Tony Allen mentioned one time that you could use hands in the 90's, you could arm bars through the 00's and 10's, but the modern NBA wants to make you slide your feet and guys don't want to do that. He seems to come at it from a different angle, in that you need to use more skill, technique and effort on defense in the modern NBA which many players (including all in the past) don't want to do. Maybe that's fair, maybe that's not.

What I wil say though is that what you saw from Houston isn't as uncommon as people think, but just like in any other era, it was not a nightly every team situation.


-------

You guys all remember this when the current 14 year olds start posting clips of OKC, Houston, Boston and Orlando and telling people that this was what the average defense in the 20's felt like for players

[Jamaaliver]

Now this is the the caliber of debate/discourse I was hoping for in this thread.

And these are all fair points, brother.


I came up in the 90s watching those old Knicks, Pacers, Hawks, Heat, Bulls teams. It was a slugfest compared to what we see in today's game.
This Rockets team really feels closer to that style of teams we saw back in the day. It'll be interesting to see how they do fare in the postseason.

The only way to stop Curry from putting up huge numbers is to deny him the ball in the first place.
That is made much easier when you manhandle him 40 feet from the basket.
And this has been my point the entire time.

Spoiler:

The official NBA Stance in 1994:

Rod Thorn, director of NBA operations:

“We looked at the games and saw that the physical contact had gone to the outer extremes,” Thorn said. “I’m not talking about the fights, but all the grabbing, holding and shoving was making it almost impossible to move from place to place on the basketball court.”

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Certainly, though your team defensive principles will also play a big part, not just the individual.

I don't think the argument is that 36/37 year old Curry would be a superstar in the 90's though. Curry was fine when he started his career against teams still in that mold of 00's defense, which was statistically tougher than the 90's.

Of course illegal defense also helped with bigs dominating more on offense as it made post offense far easier to be a focal point, and of course the talent that is at the top is not constant, it ebbs and flows.

Younger Curry went against many different defensive teams and individual defenders, so yea, the more than a step slower version will find it even harder, for sure.

Just think of how many guys were at 36 or 37 years old. Outside of like Karl Malone, how many guys were even still top level stars?

• 36 year old Hakeem was a 19/10 player and by 37 he was a 10/6 player.
  
• Jordan didn't play at 37, but he was not prime Jordan level when he came back older of course, no surprise, but was already not prime Jordan at 34.
  
• 35 year old Barkley was a 15/11 player for 20 games and didn't play at 36/37.
  
• 36 year old Pippen was an 11/5/6 super glue guy / playmaker.
  
• Ray Allen was a 14/3/2 player at 36
  
• Shaq's last year as a real high impact star was 33 years old, at 36 he had a resurgence with Phoenix with 18/8 but shot 44% FG in the playoffs.
  
  
  
  Just some off my head, but etc, etc..

Tony Allen mentioned one time that you could use hands in the 90's, you could arm bars through the 00's and 10's, but the modern NBA wants to make you slide your feet and guys don't want to do that. He seems to come at it from a different angle, in that you need to use more skill, technique and effort on defense in the modern NBA which many players (including all in the past) don't want to do. Maybe that's fair, maybe that's not.

What I wil say though is that what you saw from Houston isn't as uncommon as people think, but just like in any other era, it was not a nightly every team situation.

[dhsilv2]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

LOL, the basketball part of me wants to point out that zone wasn't legal and use a box and 1 couldn't be played. But...

You gotta be just straight trolling now. Could you imagine if they actually played defense like that consistently in any area?

EDIT

I'll leave me stupid above and not edit it out lol.

Oh hell, this is what I get looking at a twit. Saw FVV and assumed we were looking at raptors vs this one random game against 37 year old Curry. My bad there.

Not really worth digging into a single game with well past his prime Curry for an actual discussion. That wasn't normal defense for any area. Curry's shot was off. He still generated 8 assists and he had the best on off of any starter despite all this. But...defense like this still exists today which really goes to argue against the whole thread. We see teams get physical time to time with Curry. Normally, it doesn't work. He makes good passes and his teammates score. Doesn't happen every night and he's 37.

[Jamaaliver]

LOL, the basketball part of me wants to point out that zone wasn't legal and use a box and 1 couldn't be played. But...

You gotta be just straight trolling now. Could you imagine if they actually played defense like that consistently in any area?

A double team does not equal zone defense.

Star Guards and Centers often faced a double team in the 90s.

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[dhsilv2]

LOL, the basketball part of me wants to point out that zone wasn't legal and use a box and 1 couldn't be played. But...

You gotta be just straight trolling now. Could you imagine if they actually played defense like that consistently in any area?

A double team does not equal zone defense.

Star Guards and Centers often faced a double team in the 90s.

See my edit, I thought you were pull the box and 1 game from the raptors when I saw FVV, the problem with using twitter with vertical videos, I obviously would never watch more than a few seconds of vertical video! So that's my fault, I edited the message above once i realized.

[DOT]

Look how much space the defense is giving MJ in those clips

I tell ya, the game is soft now. Back in my day, defenders would've decked him if he tried to do that. Nowadays they don't even hand check, they just let him get by them to get open.

[Ainosterhaspie]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Did you even watch the video you posted? There is nothing in it that Curry hasn't faced every day in his career. There's only one play in the youtube video where defense does anything notable and it's just a defender snatching away his dribble without bodying or manhandling him.

Ironically the video and your post basically encapsulates this debate perfectly, but not in the way you intended. Your side is completely surface level analysis based on fake hyperbolic narratives and no film study or real understanding of the modern and 90s game constantly making ridiculous claims that aren't supported. You latch on to cherry picked moments and think they are a representing sample instead of the outlier they actually are.

[Iwasawitness]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

It’s at this point that I find myself wondering if you’ve ever watched a single game from the 90s.

[liquidswords]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

The takes are so hyperbolic. "Every single game" - Nostalgia has ruined the NBA. Go watch full game tapes (not highlights) from the 90's and early 00's. Lots of fake tough defense being played.

[liquidswords]

Also, the double teams in those Jordan clips are SOFFFFT lol give me a break.

[Lenneth]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

LOL, the basketball part of me wants to point out that zone wasn't legal and use a box and 1 couldn't be played. But...

You gotta be just straight trolling now. Could you imagine if they actually played defense like that consistently in any area?

EDIT

I'll leave me stupid above and not edit it out lol.

Oh hell, this is what I get looking at a twit. Saw FVV and assumed we were looking at raptors vs this one random game against 37 year old Curry. My bad there.

Not really worth digging into a single game with well past his prime Curry for an actual discussion. That wasn't normal defense for any area. Curry's shot was off. He still generated 8 assists and he had the best on off of any starter despite all this. But...defense like this still exists today which really goes to argue against the whole thread. We see teams get physical time to time with Curry. Normally, it doesn't work. He makes good passes and his teammates score. Doesn't happen every night and he's 37.

37 years old point guard, playing 4 games in the last 6 days against PO rivals like Memphis, Lakers, Denver, after scoring 52, 37, 36 and won 3 games, He finally played one bad in more than two months, and that's the 90's defense he would face all the time? And yes. Defense like that exists in 20's too. Memphis played really physical defense against Curry, and he dropped 52 points.

And, where are those defenses in 90's? It seems like almost all PO games in 90's exist on Youtube, and the majority of games don't show those mythical level of 90's defense. Here is a 1992 Playoff game 2 between Sonics vs Warriors, where Tim Hardaway faced two defense juggernauts in 90s, Payton and McMillian. Do they cover Hardaway throughout the whole game like Curry faced yesterday?

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=mercerr22

[Ainosterhaspie]

Here is what the defense on Curry in the 90s would actually look like.

Watch on YouTube

It's a playoff game with one of the teams with the biggest hard nosed defense auras from the 90s. You will struggle to find plays where there is any kind of physicality being exerted on Miller. None of it matches what was happening to Curry in the X clip versus the Rockets posted earlier which by the way is a regular season games, not playoffs.

Play after play, Miller is left completely unmarked beyond three point line and he's one of the deadliest three point snipers of the era. When he has the ball, the defender usually has no hands on him and is giving him enough space for him to easily launch a three. Curry would have no problem at all getting off threes against that defense.

"But they would play Curry different." That's an admission that he's better than Miller who averaged more than 20 ppg in his prime. You're basically setting a floor off 90s Curry of 20ppg. That's not getting crushed.

But the other aspect of this is that if they do play Curry different, that means there is less pressure on his teammates. Look at how many times in the above clip, Miller's defender is helping off Miller to pressure the ball handler. You can't do that with Curry which means Curry's teammates are facing less pressure and scoring more easily, which is one of Curry's most important and known strengths.

These blanket statements about suffocating physicality in the 90s are pure fiction. At most certain teams would guard him more physically during certain moments in certain games, but the overwhelming majority of the time it would look like what we see above--minimal physicality and lots of opportunities for open looks from the peremiter.

You cannot possibly watch extended highlights and games from the present and past and come away with the impression that the physicality gap between the eras is what people claim. There is a more credible argument to be made that the modern era is more physical on the peremiter, not less.

[tsherkin]

You cannot possibly watch extended highlights and games from the present and past and come away with the impression that the physicality gap between the eras is what people claim. There is a more credible argument to be made that the modern era is more physical on the peremiter, not less.

This can't be said enough. People remember specific possessions or highlights, but on average across a game (even in the playoffs), we didn't see crazily-aggressive physicality in the 90s. It wasn't really a thing until the very late 90s and early 2000s, and even that had more to do with poor spacing and slow tempo than anything else.

[Ice Man]

And, where are those defenses in 90's?

Those defenses never existed. All you have to do is watch any game from the Nineties to know that the prevalent narrative is a lie. Not a clip here and there; heck, I could make 2025 look brutal if I just grabbed some Draymond video. I mean, a whole game.

Truth is, in many ways the game is more physical now. That's one big reason why post-ups have disappeared. It's not because the referees are calling more offensive fouls. (They are not.) It's because today's defenders so aggressively push attacking players out of the paint. Modern centers can rarely get down low enough to seal their man.

[dhsilv2]

This is much closer to the style of defense Curry would have faced in the 90s...every single game.

(It's also why 90s basketball was not much fun to watch, why the scores were so low, and why big men dominated the era more than wings or guards.)

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

LOL, the basketball part of me wants to point out that zone wasn't legal and use a box and 1 couldn't be played. But...

You gotta be just straight trolling now. Could you imagine if they actually played defense like that consistently in any area?

EDIT

I'll leave me stupid above and not edit it out lol.

Oh hell, this is what I get looking at a twit. Saw FVV and assumed we were looking at raptors vs this one random game against 37 year old Curry. My bad there.

Not really worth digging into a single game with well past his prime Curry for an actual discussion. That wasn't normal defense for any area. Curry's shot was off. He still generated 8 assists and he had the best on off of any starter despite all this. But...defense like this still exists today which really goes to argue against the whole thread. We see teams get physical time to time with Curry. Normally, it doesn't work. He makes good passes and his teammates score. Doesn't happen every night and he's 37.

37 years old point guard, playing 4 games in the last 6 days against PO rivals like Memphis, Lakers, Denver, after scoring 52, 37, 36 and won 3 games, He finally played one bad in more than two months, and that's the 90's defense he would face all the time? And yes. Defense like that exists in 20's too. Memphis played really physical defense against Curry, and he dropped 52 points.

And, where are those defenses in 90's? It seems like almost all PO games in 90's exist on Youtube, and the majority of games don't show those mythical level of 90's defense. Here is a 1992 Playoff game 2 between Sonics vs Warriors, where Tim Hardaway faced two defense juggernauts in 90s, Payton and McMillian. Do they cover Hardaway throughout the whole game like Curry faced yesterday?

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=mercerr22

It all goes back to how bad our memories are. The people coming up with all this 90's stuff remember the LATE 90's where the Heat, Knicks and a little bit the Pacers were really physical. And they take about 4-5 seasons from 3 teams and extrapolate that to the whole era. And even those teams weren't playing the type of defense on guards that people are trying to imply.

I'm too lazy but lets say there were 27 teams each year in the 90's (there weren't). That's 270 team seasons and those teams make up about lets be nice and call it 15 of those seasons. That's 5 and a half percent of the 90's. It's just wild.