MVP Rankings 1.0

[Benedict_Boozer]

I think it's ironic that last year, alot of the Kobe fans I'm reading in this thread criticized Lebron for losing to the top teams (BOS, ORL, LA) and downplayed him wiping the floor with bad teams.

Now that CLE is winning so far against good teams, the argument is being reversed to criticizing his record against bad teams.

Gotta love homers. Switch to whatever argument works in favor of their guy I suppose.

[INKtastic]

The reason the Cavs lost to those bad teams is because they play down to the level of their opponents.

Wait, are you trying to suggest that LeBron shouldnt be punished for that?

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins. And LeBron has more points and rebounds in losses than he does in wins. His assists are down in losses, but looking at the splits for some of his teammates suggests this may be because his teammates are not shooting well in losses (i.e. a pass for a missed shot isn't going to get you an assist). Mo drops from a .485 shooter in wins to a .333 shooter in losses. Overall team FG% drops from .502 to .417.

on the other hand Kobe's stats drop dramatically across the board in his teams losses.

[MHZ]

The reason the Cavs lost to those bad teams is because they play down to the level of their opponents.

Wait, are you trying to suggest that LeBron shouldnt be punished for that?

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins. And LeBron has more points and rebounds in losses than he does in wins. His assists are down in losses, but looking at the splits for some of his teammates suggests this may be because his teammates are not shooting well in losses (i.e. a pass for a missed shot isn't going to get you an assist). Mo drops from a .485 shooter in wins to a .333 shooter in losses. Overall team FG% drops from .502 to .417.

on the other hand Kobe's stats drop dramatically across the board in his teams losses.

I think there's an argument that that actually makes the case for Kobe more than LeBron if the Lakers' success is so tied to Kobe's personal success.

[TheKingGOAT]

Iverson is +30 in his last 2 games...

[LebronsCavs]

My new Rankings.

1.) LeBron Bryant....Kobe James. Actually....they're still tied with each other. It's going to take a few weeks of one distinctively outperforming the other for this to change for me.


3/4/5) Dirk, Melo, Nash(none of those guys are even close to Bron or Kobe)

Thank you, at least there are still some reasonable LeBron fans out there. LeBronsCavs is beyond frustrating. Kobe in 4th for MVP? F that.

I think they are very, very close right now. I think LeBron will get out in front in the next couple weeks with Kobe's injury. He shot terrible agaisnt Utah. We'll see how things go though.

I would put Kobe at three right now, but there is sizeable gap between Lebron and the feild right now. He is just having a flat out better season than anyone up to this point.

[LebronsCavs]

I think there's an argument that that actually makes the case for Kobe more than LeBron if the Lakers' success is so tied to Kobe's personal success.

Just look at my sig

Anyway if Lebron throws up a stinker, the Cavs dont have much of a shot in winning. He has only shot under 40% ONCE this season, so he has been consistently dominating this year. I've seen plenty of games in the past couple years where Kobe will shoot below average and the Lakers would still win by double digits. The Cavs dont have that luxury.

[YLSKillaCam]

I think there's an argument that that actually makes the case for Kobe more than LeBron if the Lakers' success is so tied to Kobe's personal success.

Just look at my sig

Anyway if Lebron throws up a stinker, the Cavs dont have much of a shot in winning. He has only shot under 40% ONCE this season, so he has been consistently dominating this year. I've seen plenty of games in the past couple years where Kobe will shoot below average and the Lakers would still win by double digits. The Cavs dont have that luxury.

You do know that nobody takes your seriously right?

And you do know that a player can shoot below 40% and still be the main reason his team won?

[Dat Pass]

You sound stupid.How am I a troll. You internet nerds over use that word. This is MVP discussion not Lakers discussion.And excuse Lebron for not having the luxury of having teammates as good as good as Gasol,Bynum,Artest, and Odom.Oh and not to mention 10 time champ Phil Jackson.Replace Kobe with Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Cp3 or any other superstar and I bet they have a better record through 22 games. You put all the blame on Lebron for losing to those teams tell me how Kobe did against any of those teams any year from 05 to 07.

By your own admission, Lebron teams play down to the competition...so how could he possibly be undefeated on the Lakers? What you said was a trollish statement.

EXACTLY.

You just admitted how LeBron and the Cavs play down to their competition. That being said, how could the Lakers possibly have a better record with LeBron? Especially when you factor in that Gasol missed the first half of the season. Its absurd to just make blanked statements like "Replace Kobe with Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Cp3 or any other superstar and I bet they have a better record through 22 games."

Here let me try: Replace LeBron with Kobe, Wade, Carmelo or any other superstar and I bet they dont play down to their competition, therefore, they would have a better record.

See how stupid that sounds?

[Dat Pass]

He has only shot under 40% ONCE this season

Where the hell do you get your stats?

Lebrons-butt-budies.com?

He actually has 2 games under 40%, and 6 games at 40% or lower.

And your sig is funny. Look at the stats this season for Kobe and the Lakers. In Kobe's 4 games where he shot lower than 40%, they are 1-3. Pretty shocking considering they only have 4 losses on the season. Looks like its time for a new sig eh?

[Dat Pass]

I think it's ironic that last year, alot of the Kobe fans I'm reading in this thread criticized Lebron for losing to the top teams (BOS, ORL, LA) and downplayed him wiping the floor with bad teams.

Now that CLE is winning so far against good teams, the argument is being reversed to criticizing his record against bad teams.

Gotta love homers. Switch to whatever argument works in favor of their guy I suppose.

The argument last year was their 1-5 (I think) record agaisnt those top 3 teams, especially because it includes Kobe's team. Out of the top 6 teams in the league (Magic, Celtics, Lakers, Hawks, Nuggets and Mavs) they are all of 2-1. How exactly is that reversed?

[CharlieMurphy]

The reason the Cavs lost to those bad teams is because they play down to the level of their opponents.

Wait, are you trying to suggest that LeBron shouldnt be punished for that?

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins. And LeBron has more points and rebounds in losses than he does in wins. His assists are down in losses, but looking at the splits for some of his teammates suggests this may be because his teammates are not shooting well in losses (i.e. a pass for a missed shot isn't going to get you an assist). Mo drops from a .485 shooter in wins to a .333 shooter in losses. Overall team FG% drops from .502 to .417.

on the other hand Kobe's stats drop dramatically across the board in his teams losses.

I'm not sure what we should take from this--that when lebron plays less than stellar his team wins or that when kobe plays less than stellar his team loses?

[Dat Pass]

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins. And LeBron has more points and rebounds in losses than he does in wins. His assists are down in losses, but looking at the splits for some of his teammates suggests this may be because his teammates are not shooting well in losses (i.e. a pass for a missed shot isn't going to get you an assist). Mo drops from a .485 shooter in wins to a .333 shooter in losses. Overall team FG% drops from .502 to .417.

on the other hand Kobe's stats drop dramatically across the board in his teams losses.

I'm not sure what we should take from this--that when lebron plays less than stellar his team wins or that when kobe plays less than stellar his team loses?

Yea, thats what I was thinking. Doesnt this help Kobe's case?

[Benedict_Boozer]

The argument last year was their 1-5 (I think) record agaisnt those top 3 teams, especially because it includes Kobe's team. Out of the top 6 teams in the league (Magic, Celtics, Lakers, Hawks, Nuggets and Mavs) they are all of 2-1. How exactly is that reversed?

Ehh the sample size is too small at the moment, CLE hasn't even played half the teams in the top "6".

We will see what happens. But if CLE has a better record against the top teams I expect all the Kobe fans such as yourself who harped on how important that was to give Lebron a boost in the MVP rankings, just like you did for Kobe last year.

No flip-flopping to complain about "bad losses" hurting Lebron now that CLE has dropped a few, Kobe last year lost to scrub teams like CHA and PHILLY, etc. it happens.

[Dat Pass]

The argument last year was their 1-5 (I think) record agaisnt those top 3 teams, especially because it includes Kobe's team. Out of the top 6 teams in the league (Magic, Celtics, Lakers, Hawks, Nuggets and Mavs) they are all of 2-1. How exactly is that reversed?

Ehh the sample size is too small at the moment, CLE hasn't even played half the teams in the top "6".

We will see what happens. But if CLE has a better record against the top teams I expect all the Kobe fans such as yourself who harped on how important that was to give Lebron a boost in the MVP rankings, just like you did for Kobe last year.

No flip-flopping to complain about "bad losses" hurting Lebron now that CLE has dropped a few, Kobe last year lost to scrub teams like CHA and PHILLY, etc. it happens.

Your completely going back on your last argument now.

I think it's ironic that last year, alot of the Kobe fans I'm reading in this thread criticized Lebron for losing to the top teams (BOS, ORL, LA) and downplayed him wiping the floor with bad teams.

Now that CLE is winning so far against good teams, the argument is being reversed to criticizing his record against bad teams.

Gotta love homers. Switch to whatever argument works in favor of their guy I suppose.

Now your admitting that "the sample size is too small"? Which is it?

I thought you just argued that LeBron has been winning agaisnt the top teams?

And what do you mean Cle has dropped a few bad games? They've lost 5 games to pretty bad teams barely 1/4 of the way thru the season.

[INKtastic]

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins. And LeBron has more points and rebounds in losses than he does in wins. His assists are down in losses, but looking at the splits for some of his teammates suggests this may be because his teammates are not shooting well in losses (i.e. a pass for a missed shot isn't going to get you an assist). Mo drops from a .485 shooter in wins to a .333 shooter in losses. Overall team FG% drops from .502 to .417.

on the other hand Kobe's stats drop dramatically across the board in his teams losses.

I'm not sure what we should take from this--that when lebron plays less than stellar his team wins or that when kobe plays less than stellar his team loses?

Yea, thats what I was thinking. Doesnt this help Kobe's case?

how does LeBron's bad games (losses) being better than Kobe's good games (wins) help Kobe's case?

[CharlieMurphy]

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins. And LeBron has more points and rebounds in losses than he does in wins. His assists are down in losses, but looking at the splits for some of his teammates suggests this may be because his teammates are not shooting well in losses (i.e. a pass for a missed shot isn't going to get you an assist). Mo drops from a .485 shooter in wins to a .333 shooter in losses. Overall team FG% drops from .502 to .417.

on the other hand Kobe's stats drop dramatically across the board in his teams losses.

Yea, thats what I was thinking. Doesnt this help Kobe's case?

how does LeBron's bad games (losses) being better than Kobe's good games (wins) help Kobe's case?

that's not what you said in your post. You said that lebron played better when the team lost and that kobe's play was worse when his team lost. Which would lead one to think that the lakers need kobe to play well to win whereas the cavs can win if lebron plays less than stellar basketball.

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying that's what your post suggested.

[INKtastic]

read my post again. The first sentence

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins

i.e. LeBron plays better in the bad games (losses) than kobe does in the good games (wins).

I then went on to show that when they do lose, LeBron is generally still trying to carry them to a win, as he also often has to do in wins.

[Dat Pass]

read my post again. The first sentence

in the losses, LeBron scores more points, grabs more rebounds, and has more assists than Kobe has in wins

i.e. LeBron plays better in the bad games (losses) than kobe does in the good games (wins).

I then went on to show that when they do lose, LeBron is generally still trying to carry them to a win, as he also often has to do in wins.

If the Lakers lose when Kobe plays bad (1-3 record when he shoots under 40%), then doesnt that show how valuable he is to the team?

[DowJones]

LeBron will probably win it. Cleveland will finish somewhere between 58-62 wins and King James will put up insane numbers. The Lakers will get 65-67 wins but they are far more loaded than Cleveland is with a far better head coach directing things.

It will be just like last year---LeBron proves he is the best player in the NBA while the Lakers prove they are the best team in the NBA.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Your completely going back on your last argument now.

I think it's ironic that last year, alot of the Kobe fans I'm reading in this thread criticized Lebron for losing to the top teams (BOS, ORL, LA) and downplayed him wiping the floor with bad teams.

Now that CLE is winning so far against good teams, the argument is being reversed to criticizing his record against bad teams.

Gotta love homers. Switch to whatever argument works in favor of their guy I suppose.

Now your admitting that "the sample size is too small"? Which is it?

I thought you just argued that LeBron has been winning agaisnt the top teams?

And what do you mean Cle has dropped a few bad games? They've lost 5 games to pretty bad teams barely 1/4 of the way thru the season.

Note that I said CLE is winning "so far". By your own numbers CLE has won 2 of 3 against the top 6. I'd say that qualifies no? The sample size is def too small to make any final conclusions, hence the "so far" part of my comment. Not sure what you are trying to get at.

As for the bad losses, LA last year lost to = Indiana, Sac, Charlotte (2x), Phx, Philly, etc. Most of those teams didn't even make the playoffs. Bad teams get up to play against good teams. It happens.

I don't think it matters who you win/lose to if you finish near the top of your conference, just like last year CLE losing to the top teams didn't cost Lebron many votes, he won in a landslide. I guess we will see if voters agree with your mindset or not and "punish" Lebron for losing to some scrub teams at the end of the season.