The OFFICIAL Rookie impressions thread pt. II

[fart]

Zeller with 20 points in his first start yesterday. He has played great all year in limited minutes and I think at #17 he was an absolute steal. I can see him being a 20/10 big man for years to come with the Cavs after varejao is gone.

He'll have trouble getting to either 20 OR 10, but it's the 10 that super hard to envision. The guy couldn't even get 10 in College, and his rebound has been similarly mediocre in the league. He lacks the talent to pull down 10+.

well maybe not 10 boards, but I have no problem seeing him average at least 7 boards in a year or two from now. His offense is really good for a rookie big man, he can step out and hit jumpers, he has the little hook working around the rim, and he is just good at finishing plays near the basket.

[boogie-reke]

Zeller with 20 points in his first start yesterday. He has played great all year in limited minutes and I think at #17 he was an absolute steal. I can see him being a 20/10 big man for years to come with the Cavs after varejao is gone.

I'd say 16\15-8 is attainable for him, should be a starting center in the league eventually and yes I think he's a good get in that spot aswell.

[Shem]

His criticism of your commentary to Jon was valid. For you to in one breath say Jon is essentially avoiding reality because of his allegiance to the Hornets and wanting a Hornets' player to win the award in Davis, then go on and on about how a player of from our team, the Blazers, is leading in reality is hypocrisy. As if you or other Blazers fans don't have a desire to see Lillard win based on him being a Trailblazer. There is little to no difference between you and Jon in this situation.

I never once used an argument based on what I think, so to imply that I did and then call it hypocrisy is bogus. So no, it's not valid unless you can point out the flaws of my argument which nobody has taken the time to breakdown.

As much as Jon is tied to the Hornets and his desire to see a NO player win, you are tied to the Blazers and a desire to see a PDX player win. No one here can read the mind of the voters or dictate how they'll vote when we have four months and nearly 60 games remaining for both players. DRB's commentary was just.

Unless you're living in a black hole, you should know that media members from all over the country are picking Lillard to win the ROY and some have already pretty much have the race over with. All I did was list reasons why they think this way in general. And I know this because I'm reading all of their articles on it and watching video of their breakdowns. And I did explain what Davis is going to have to do to get their attention and change their minds and it's going to be hard because of all of the missed games he's had because some out there have already made up their minds who is going to win the award.

This is an example of what is out on why some pretty much have this award decided:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaPpgDpa9w[/youtube]

So when Jon uses an argument on why Davis is in the race right now with a PER36 comparison, that is when I decided to put it in perspective of what the voters out there are thinking and they're not even going to look at that. It has nothing to do with what I think in this matter. And I've noticed that twice I've had people who attacked my statement to avoid attacking my valid remarks. Right now, it's a one man race no matter how you want to spin it. Davis isn't in it yet and it's going to take a remarkable run on his part to turn heads.

[ComboGuardCity]

But its not decided. Its been 30 games.

[Shem]

But its not decided. Its been 30 games.

Again, I didn't say that. I don't know how to be more clear, especially when I point out what Davis has to do to win it and how he's going to have to remarkable things to turn heads towards the direction of his play.

[NO-KG-AI]

Lillard hasn't been so remarkably good that it's going to take some herculean effort for someone else to win it. This isn't a Chris Paul type of rookie campaign.

As for Davis defensively, you guys are really underestimating how bad the rest of the Hornets have been defensively, which is never a good situation for a young guy that is definitely going to bite on fakes and play overly aggressive.

Davis has lapses that any 19 year old big will, but he does an excellent job with his activity level while keeping the fouls down, that's what makes me happy to see.

I think if you expected a 19 year old with an undeveloped body to be a DPOY candidate, that was your mistake, but he's clearly a net positive on both ends for us, and our most efficient player on both ends.

He'll get better as the season progresses, and his minutes will continue to rise. His numbers will be very impressive by season's end.

I want to see more consistency on the glass though. He seems to follow up his big nights on the boards with lackluster performances, then again, the Hornets haven't been so good at forcing teams to miss

[TheKingOfVa360]

Sure I have. And I've seen every game of Rivers'. Your argument is pretty much what we've been saying about Rivers. He has fantastic handles, he is making good decisions with the basketball, he actually is playing good defense, only thing he wasn't doing early on is getting his shot to fall. Something that he has made up for and then some as of late.

And I don't think you can sit there and say Beal is so much more needed on a bad team compared to Rivers. The Hornets have won 5 games, actually lost head to head vs the Wizards, and they've been without Gordon, Davis, and Jason Smith. Not to mention Aminu has just been completely benched for some reason. And this also ignores the fact that Rivers has twisted his ankle three times and has played with a couple of fingers taped after spraining them on his left hand.

My only real issue with Beal is everyone acting like he's Ray Allen. Austin shot the 3 better than him in college too. But trust me, my post was more about Rivers than it is Beal. This board has a sick obsession with him that is completely unfair.

Ok I can see where you are coming from. Beal to me is clearly better than Rivers now but both will improve. And Beal is far from Ray Allen, he has missed so many open 3's this season. Makes it real frustrating as a fan to watch him play at times. I think Beal will be an all-star in his prime but I don't think he will be a baby Ray Allen. More like another Mitch Richmond if he develops right.

Rivers is also young, so it's too early to count him out. He just has to find a position and once his shot starts falling then skys the limit. If nothing else the kid is very confident and has the heart of a lion.


How do you feel about Dion Waiters? I have league pass but haven't had a chance to see him play much. Will see him play in person the day after Christmas.

[southern wolf]

12p 7r 12a tonight for Shved on national TV. He's got a bright future. Manu jnr!

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Shem, I never had any problem with any of your arguments, except the offhand comment about Jon being biased. As I said, I largely agree with you and think this has gone on way too long for a minuscule little comment I decided to nitpick at.

[Klomp]

12p 7r 12a tonight for Shved on national TV. He's got a bright future. Manu jnr!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3B-_TgjdHE[/youtube]

[Shem]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEoNuqD3Ql0[/youtube]

[sir G Wallace]

NBA.com put up the **** Denver version on youtube which is really really idiotic. Their commentary and replay everything sucks.

[Train]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBcDQq-D8z4[/youtube]

[DusterBuster]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEoNuqD3Ql0[/youtube]

That was a frustration dunk if I've ever seen one. Lillard caught a little Nugget-itis from being in such close proximity to them and his shot was off all night long. That dunk definitely was him getting some of that frustration over the poor shooting out.

That said, he still hit more 3 pointers than the entire Nuggets team.....

[Shem]

Shem, I never had any problem with any of your arguments, except the offhand comment about Jon being biased. As I said, I largely agree with you and think this has gone on way too long for a minuscule little comment I decided to nitpick at.

All the guys at Inside the NBA on TNT tonight were kissing Lillard's ass tonight. Barkley kept saying over and over again that the race is over. If anybody is up tonight and has NBA TV and is interested in hearing it, then turn it on because Inside the NBA is going to be played all night tonight.

As for me, it wouldn't be a big deal if Lillard doesn't win the ROY. A lot of great players didn't like Magic, Kobe, Nash, etc. Lillard has made his point about his play.

The only reason at this point on why I would want to see Lillard win it is because of this:

I think I'll make my bold Prediction of the year now. Damian Lillard will not only be a candidate for ROY, he will win it.

I think I see a bet between you and kdawg here. Something fun like having to carry a phrase of the winner's choice in the sig?

I'll take that bet, will Kdawg?

Absolutely. Damian Lillard will not be rookie of the year.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1190800&start=120

[boogie-reke]

Lillard really starting to feel that wear and tear, his FG% is plummeting.

[orangeparka]

Yeah, Lillard really struggling with his shot, shooting 33.8% the past five games. He's a little dependent on his jumper right now, which explains it I guess.

If he can expand his scoring game more, it should be fine.

He's been passing the ball really well in that stretch though, at 7 APG on just 2.2 TOs. Still finding ways to contribute.

[Jon1798]

Ok I can see where you are coming from. Beal to me is clearly better than Rivers now but both will improve. And Beal is far from Ray Allen, he has missed so many open 3's this season. Makes it real frustrating as a fan to watch him play at times. I think Beal will be an all-star in his prime but I don't think he will be a baby Ray Allen. More like another Mitch Richmond if he develops right.

Rivers is also young, so it's too early to count him out. He just has to find a position and once his shot starts falling then skys the limit. If nothing else the kid is very confident and has the heart of a lion.


How do you feel about Dion Waiters? I have league pass but haven't had a chance to see him play much. Will see him play in person the day after Christmas.

I really really like what Beal "could" be. He's got all the talent he needs to be successful. There's really no question he'll be better with Wall on the court. Part of me is just cautious with Beal because I feel like I've never really seen him do it. He always leaves me thinking, man if he just could have gotten these shots to fall. At some point it starts to feel like a trend. But certainly 20+ games into his rookie year is way too early to be concerned about that. I like the Mitch comparison. I feel he's a weird mix of Mitch and maybe a guy like Jason Richardson. Not quite as athletic as Jason, not quite the shooter Mitch was. But capable of being that athletic slasher court runner and/or outside shooter.

Waiters is going to be one of those guys that helps his team and no one can figure out why. He's an absolute bull in a china shop. Great ability to get to the rim, but also a highly inefficient guy that likes to shoot. Not a true comparison, but Westbrook like. People are going to constantly point to Waiters' advanced stats, meanwhile his ability to break a defense down is going to be game changing for the Cavs long term, IMO. That team is going to go as far as Irving takes them, but they needed another guy who could beat his man off the dribble, and they got exactly what they asked for.

[mcfly1204]

Waiters is going to be one of those guys that helps his team and no one can figure out why. He's an absolute bull in a china shop. Great ability to get to the rim, but also a highly inefficient guy that likes to shoot. Not a true comparison, but Westbrook like. People are going to constantly point to Waiters' advanced stats, meanwhile his ability to break a defense down is going to be game changing for the Cavs long term, IMO. That team is going to go as far as Irving takes them, but they needed another guy who could beat his man off the dribble, and they got exactly what they asked for.

I could not agree more. When the Playoffs roll around and the game slows down, having that second creator is a necessity. I clearly do not expect Cleveland to be in the Playoffs this season, but I think they have the talent base to get there as early as next season.

[GhostsOfGil]

Just to piggy back on what TKoVA360 is saying; Beal is playing the right way. He defends and makes good discussions but his inability to hit open shots is mind-boggling. Its the same story as when he played for the Gators.

Also, Im not sure the pg rotation has much to do with his struggles since he's getting good looks. As for Rivers, the only time I saw him play was when NOs played the Wiz..that might have been an unusually good game for him, but I remember walking away generally impressed with his overall game.