NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[Neutral 123]

Bill, I know you guys on the far left have owned the issue of racism ever since Scottsboro and I'm truly glad you did and have since, because America truly was a racist hellhole then and I thank the gods -- really -- that there were so many pinkos who were willing to take a stand against the prevailing American consensus, regardless of the why, even if it was ultimately a prong in a campaign to eventually overthrow the economic and political system, because, ****, somebody had to do it, and apart from the socialists there were way too few segments of white America willing to do so, back then.

Bad news: Your side is now, and has been for a few decades, the one doing the most to keep dying and dead racist concepts alive, like Bernie. Not just keep vigil against continued or new racism, which of COURSE must always be done (AHEM), you are literally sustaining and even resurrecting and STRENGTHENING ideas about racial essences, despite however much you declaim your nuanced understanding that race is just an illusion invented by society, you still wind up trading in the same basic blanket assumptions about people's character and circumstances based on NOTHING but their race, ideas that should have died a long time ago. The fact that you yet again are telling me that I will never understand something because of my race...just amazing, amazing hypocrisy at a core philosophical level. Have you ever spent much time pondering the question, "OH MY GOD WHAT IF I BECAME THE ENEMY AND WO

There would be no shortage of people saying this 50 years ago, a hundred years ago, 200 years ago. And in another 50 years, this message will yet again be on the wrong side of history. In fact it seems the current racist manifesto is to claim those who speak our against racism are racists themselves, or are responsible for creating racists. Its not clever.

[Bill Bradley]

LOLOLOL. Is this article supposed to be from the Onion. Bro... you can't be serious? Can you? Are you?

"People of color talking about white people don’t occupy positions of privilege or power. Therefore, they cannot be racist. Racism is structural, not personal."

The daily dot is a joke so I was hesitant to read it, but I completely stopped out of disgust when I got to that line.
First of all, it's not called "reverse racism" its called racism. Second of all, there are black people (and coloured people) in positions of power, so that sentence is just straight-up erroneous based on the strength of that alone.

I need to just stop here. To propose that people of colour cannot be racist because they are not in positions of power is just patently idiotic. Frankly,the fact that you suggested that article as part of your already flawed argument makes you an idiot. Like I said, do some travelling, study other cultures, try living in some other countries for extended periods of time and maybe we can revisit this argument. Until then, leave silly internet articles alone and don't argue with people who have actually done those things.

I don't know any about the Daily Dot, but that point of view is held by many people, including civil rights activists, scholars, professors, etc... of many different races, oncluding white.

The idea is that racism in the US is largely institutionalized. The theory being that racism is the practice of holding down one race for the benefit of another. This can only be done from a position of power because those not in power cannot hold down those in power. In the US, the power is pretty firmly in the hands of white individuals. Due to racial stereotypes potentially held by white individuals (those in power), it tends to be beneficial for them to keep other races from obtaining power.

That's just a very quick overview of a complex theory. You may disagree with it, I don't agree with every aspect of it, but you should read up on it first. There has been books written about it and research done regarding the point of view. It's actually interesting.

Key words, "in the US". My whole point during this back and forth with Bill Bradley or whatever his name is that racism is not just an American issue and it is much more dynamic than he understands. He seems literally incapable of viewing things from a non-American perspective. It's extremely frustrating.

You are thick. The OP is about America. This discussion is about the NBA- in America! You keep wanting to mention you lived in Asia and have traveled. Nobody cares- it's irrelevant to the discussion.

[MotownMadness]

Bill, I know you guys on the far left have owned the issue of racism ever since Scottsboro and I'm truly glad you did and have since, because America truly was a racist hellhole then and I thank the gods -- really -- that there were so many pinkos who were willing to take a stand against the prevailing American consensus, regardless of the why, even if it was ultimately a prong in a campaign to eventually overthrow the economic and political system, because, ****, somebody had to do it, and apart from the socialists there were way too few segments of white America willing to do so, back then.

Bad news: Your side is now, and has been for a few decades, the one doing the most to keep dying and dead racist concepts alive, like Bernie. Not just keep vigil against continued or new racism, which of COURSE must always be done (AHEM), you are literally sustaining and even resurrecting and STRENGTHENING ideas about racial essences, despite however much you declaim your nuanced understanding that race is just an illusion invented by society, you still wind up trading in the same basic blanket assumptions about people's character and circumstances based on NOTHING but their race, ideas that should have died a long time ago. The fact that you yet again are telling me that I will never understand something because of my race...just amazing, amazing hypocrisy at a core philosophical level. Have you ever spent much time pondering the question, "OH MY GOD WHAT IF I'VE BECOME THE ENEMY WITHOUT REALIZING IT?"

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to profit off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

[Cliff Levingston]

The age limit is not racist at all. Those calling it racist are doing anti racism efforts a disfavor by drawing attention away from issues that are truly racist. The NBA didn't create the policy thinking "black kids need to stay in school, so we won't let them play in our league". They created the policy essentially because high schoolers are much harder to scout than 1 year college players.

Anybody who's been around long enough should remember what the NBA was like right before the rule got implemented. High school players were dominating drafts and too many of them were underperforming on the court. Teams were being forced to waste picks and roster spots on high schoolers because the best talent was skipping college. Problem was that there is not enough players like Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant and too many like Kwame Brown.

Each NBA team is a business, and in business you want to reduce risk. More scouting => less risk. Older players in draft => less development costs for the NBA. The business case for the age limit is a clear slam dunk and no racist motivations are needed at all to justify it.

There are busts in every draft, picked from any position, any age. It's illegal, and can only exist legally if the union agrees to it. It looks like they are done giving up human rights as a condition to getting an agreement done with the NBA.

How is it illegal? It's a business setting qualifications for it's potential employees. Would it be illegal for a guy who builds interstellar rockets to require you to have a degree in rocket science before he employs you? Where's the uproar over the NFL's 3 years out of high school rule when the percentage of black players is nearly the same? The fact that baseball was put out there as an organization favoring whites is kinda funny cause baseball is very multi-racial with lots of latino and asian players.

There's nothing discriminatory (which is the right word to use here, not "racism") that the NBA is doing as they are applying the rule universally to anyone who would possibly enter the draft: white, black, brown, green.. it doesn't matter. Cliff Levingston wouldn't try to pretend that there aren't possibly owners or NBA leadership that have discriminatory views but the rule itself isn't inherently discriminatory which is the argument being made here. It's a wrong argument, plain and simple. All they have is rhetoric, cause if they tried the NBA in a court of law, they would get shot down immediately.

These young black players have the option of going to play and get paid in other leagues, here and abroad, until a certain basketball company's requirements for employment are met. Edit to add: Don't get Cliff Levingston wrong though. It's fully within the NBPA's rights to fight that issue in collective bargaining and try to get it lowered back to 18. Calling it "racist" is just nonsense and disingenuous in trying to garner support for your argument. If they want to get somewhere with it, they should propose solutions to address the NBA's reasoning for having the rule in place, not just shouting "racism."

[Cliff Levingston]

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything.

Nice, appropriate mis-use the word prophet! Haha!

[MotownMadness]

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything.

Nice, appropriate mis-use the word prophet! Haha!

Really, He's in the middle of a pretty big lawsuit right now over it.

[Cliff Levingston]

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything.

Nice, appropriate mis-use the word prophet! Haha!

Really, He's in the middle of a pretty big lawsuit right now over it.

Cliff Levingston agrees with your post. You meant to say "profit" not "prophet" with the way you used it.

Profit: pecuniary gain resulting from the employment of capital in any transaction.
Prophet: a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.

[Modulate]

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

Wooooooooow. Wow.

This is such a common sentiment amongst white folk but it never ceases to amaze. I guess it's the pure stupidity of it that gets me.

[Neutral 123]

The age limit is not racist at all. Those calling it racist are doing anti racism efforts a disfavor by drawing attention away from issues that are truly racist. The NBA didn't create the policy thinking "black kids need to stay in school, so we won't let them play in our league". They created the policy essentially because high schoolers are much harder to scout than 1 year college players.

Anybody who's been around long enough should remember what the NBA was like right before the rule got implemented. High school players were dominating drafts and too many of them were underperforming on the court. Teams were being forced to waste picks and roster spots on high schoolers because the best talent was skipping college. Problem was that there is not enough players like Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant and too many like Kwame Brown.

Each NBA team is a business, and in business you want to reduce risk. More scouting => less risk. Older players in draft => less development costs for the NBA. The business case for the age limit is a clear slam dunk and no racist motivations are needed at all to justify it.

There are busts in every draft, picked from any position, any age. It's illegal, and can only exist legally if the union agrees to it. It looks like they are done giving up human rights as a condition to getting an agreement done with the NBA.

How is it illegal? It's a business setting qualifications for it's potential employees. Would it be illegal for a guy who builds interstellar rockets to require you to have a degree in rocket science before he employs you? Where's the uproar over the NFL's 3 years out of high school rule when the percentage of black players is nearly the same? The fact that baseball was put out there as an organization favoring whites is kinda funny cause baseball is very multi-racial with lots of latino and asian players.

There's nothing discriminatory (which is the right word to use here, not "racism") that the NBA is doing as they are applying the rule universally to anyone who would possibly enter the draft: white, black, brown, green.. it doesn't matter. Cliff Levingston wouldn't try to pretend that there aren't possibly owners or NBA leadership that have discriminatory views but the rule itself isn't inherently discriminatory which is the argument being made here. It's a wrong argument, plain and simple. All they have is rhetoric, cause if they tried the NBA in a court of law, they would get shot down immediately.

These young black players have the option of going to play and get paid in other leagues, here and abroad, until a certain basketball company's requirements for employment are met.

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport. It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture.

Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

[MotownMadness]

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

Wooooooooow. Wow.

This is such a common sentiment amongst white folk but it never ceases to amaze. I guess it's the pure stupidity of it that gets me.

But If samething was wrote in the same against white people like the 100s of posts already in this thread it would be ok, It's a double standard.

[MotownMadness]

There are busts in every draft, picked from any position, any age. It's illegal, and can only exist legally if the union agrees to it. It looks like they are done giving up human rights as a condition to getting an agreement done with the NBA.

How is it illegal? It's a business setting qualifications for it's potential employees. Would it be illegal for a guy who builds interstellar rockets to require you to have a degree in rocket science before he employs you? Where's the uproar over the NFL's 3 years out of high school rule when the percentage of black players is nearly the same? The fact that baseball was put out there as an organization favoring whites is kinda funny cause baseball is very multi-racial with lots of latino and asian players.

There's nothing discriminatory (which is the right word to use here, not "racism") that the NBA is doing as they are applying the rule universally to anyone who would possibly enter the draft: white, black, brown, green.. it doesn't matter. Cliff Levingston wouldn't try to pretend that there aren't possibly owners or NBA leadership that have discriminatory views but the rule itself isn't inherently discriminatory which is the argument being made here. It's a wrong argument, plain and simple. All they have is rhetoric, cause if they tried the NBA in a court of law, they would get shot down immediately.

These young black players have the option of going to play and get paid in other leagues, here and abroad, until a certain basketball company's requirements for employment are met.

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport. It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture.

Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

You don't have too go work for them you know. I passed up many career choices for money now because I couldn't afford to be a apprentice for that long with no pay.

[MotownMadness]

Nice, appropriate mis-use the word prophet! Haha!

Really, He's in the middle of a pretty big lawsuit right now over it.

Cliff Levingston agrees with your post. You meant to say "profit" not "prophet" with the way you used it.

Profit: pecuniary gain resulting from the employment of capital in any transaction.
Prophet: a person who speaks for God or a deity, or by divine inspiration.

oops

[Neutral 123]

Bill, I know you guys on the far left have owned the issue of racism ever since Scottsboro and I'm truly glad you did and have since, because America truly was a racist hellhole then and I thank the gods -- really -- that there were so many pinkos who were willing to take a stand against the prevailing American consensus, regardless of the why, even if it was ultimately a prong in a campaign to eventually overthrow the economic and political system, because, ****, somebody had to do it, and apart from the socialists there were way too few segments of white America willing to do so, back then.

Bad news: Your side is now, and has been for a few decades, the one doing the most to keep dying and dead racist concepts alive, like Bernie. Not just keep vigil against continued or new racism, which of COURSE must always be done (AHEM), you are literally sustaining and even resurrecting and STRENGTHENING ideas about racial essences, despite however much you declaim your nuanced understanding that race is just an illusion invented by society, you still wind up trading in the same basic blanket assumptions about people's character and circumstances based on NOTHING but their race, ideas that should have died a long time ago. The fact that you yet again are telling me that I will never understand something because of my race...just amazing, amazing hypocrisy at a core philosophical level. Have you ever spent much time pondering the question, "OH MY GOD WHAT IF I'VE BECOME THE ENEMY WITHOUT REALIZING IT?"

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

There is no measure that suggests blacks are above the rules, or have an unfair advantage in society. If you want race baiting, go look at what that scumbag Limbaugh had to say about SAE chant about lynching and excluding blacks. But sure, Sharpton is the problem.

From what I've seen of the women's rights movement, the lgbt movement, nothing short of relentless pressure will effect change. Blacks need a thousand Sharpton's a thousand Jesse Jackson's.

[Neutral 123]

How is it illegal? It's a business setting qualifications for it's potential employees. Would it be illegal for a guy who builds interstellar rockets to require you to have a degree in rocket science before he employs you? Where's the uproar over the NFL's 3 years out of high school rule when the percentage of black players is nearly the same? The fact that baseball was put out there as an organization favoring whites is kinda funny cause baseball is very multi-racial with lots of latino and asian players.

There's nothing discriminatory (which is the right word to use here, not "racism") that the NBA is doing as they are applying the rule universally to anyone who would possibly enter the draft: white, black, brown, green.. it doesn't matter. Cliff Levingston wouldn't try to pretend that there aren't possibly owners or NBA leadership that have discriminatory views but the rule itself isn't inherently discriminatory which is the argument being made here. It's a wrong argument, plain and simple. All they have is rhetoric, cause if they tried the NBA in a court of law, they would get shot down immediately.

These young black players have the option of going to play and get paid in other leagues, here and abroad, until a certain basketball company's requirements for employment are met.

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport. It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture.

Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

You don't have too go work for them you know. I passed up many career choices for money now because I couldn't afford to be a apprentice for that long with no pay.

Irrelevant and I'm not interested in discussing your personal life.

[Modulate]

But If samething was wrote in the same against white people like the 100s of posts already in this thread it would be ok, It's a double standard.

Oh, so you're gonna play "But If..." card now?

[vado]

Not only should the NBA age limit not be lowered, it should be raised. The NBA has it right, MLB and NHL have it wrong. All these punk ass kids should be forced to go to College.

That's like your opinion man. So these "punk ass kids" are old enough to sign up for war but not capitalize on their God given talents

To be honest I was just pounding the table and I don't really care too much. They are old enough to sign up for war, so what they are also not old enough to drink legally. If they want to play pro ball they can go the Brandon Jennings route. It's the NBA's choice if they want their employees to have a year or 2 more of life experience before coming to the pros.

[MotownMadness]

Ok so someone summarize to me real quick how this is another attack against the black man. That way I don't have to read through 28 pages of white man did this and that. Because right now this just sounds like one of the laziest attempts of the race card I've seen yet.

[pipfan]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

[Neutral 123]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

[MotownMadness]

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport. It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture.

Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

You don't have too go work for them you know. I passed up many career choices for money now because I couldn't afford to be a apprentice for that long with no pay.

Irrelevant and I'm not interested in discussing your personal life.

Not irrelevant, These things exists in more careers then you think is the point. Not just in a sport that is mostly blacks. You're just trying to hide behind racism to make you're point and you sound stupid.