ECSF: P1 | (1) Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers (4) | TIED 0-0

[gpoon]

Games 7 Lebron was tired... he was having cramps during the 3rd/4th lucky Love/Hill stepped up to give him his much needed rest. Yes the raptors dont have anyone to guard Lebron but do the Cavs have anyone to guard the other 4 spots on the raps? i think it will be a good series going 6-7. Not sure why everyone thinks the Raps are going to go back to being the old raps? they played 82 games with this new offence and even a playoff series. they reverted back a bit in the 4th of game 4 with iso ball but im sure they learned from that.

Where did Hill step up? He was 1-3 on FGs...he made a few FTs when Indy was fouling...thats far from stepping up

He was able to man the point when Lebron sat. he was a positive plus minus for the game.

[Uncle Dennis]

I get that the Cavs barely got past the Pacers but Toronto didn't exactly look impressive against a mediocre 8th seed Washington team. The Wizards - with all their late season troubles and chemistry issues - were about even with the Raptors outside two fourth quarter collapses. With a healthy Porter that's probably a seven game series also.

Going with Lebron in 6

Nah that Wizards team wasn't mediocre. Sure they had some chemistry issues during the regular season, but they still have two all stars, one being very good. They aren't a regular 8th seed team, and are probably better than the pacers.

[SFour]

Not only did LeBron have the best team. He had the well rested team. Two years ago he got the Raps after two grueling 7 game series and last year after a weeks rest. Lowry hobbled & injured to boot.

All this mental edge BS from armchair psychologists doesn't even deserve a response. He just got a tired team with no legs while his was fresh.

So when the Raptors finally do get their revenge, I don't want to hear the LeBron is tired excuse. Instead we'll go with the Raptors are in Lebrons head narrative.

This x1000......even in their regular season match-up rest plays a big role. The Raptors first loss against the Cavs, they were on a back2back, and in their 2nd loss Lowry went to watch Villanova win the championship the night before so during the game he locked like a mess and only scored 5 points. And both games were in Cleveland. This time in the playoffs, Raps are the ones with home court and the rest advantage.

[CoachD]

5. Saying raptors don;t have anyone to defend lebron is true and false - no one does. But Raptors can throw out OG, Siakam, Ibaka on the post, even - Demar and Powell can show different looks from time to time. Everyone just needs to make him work.

You made some good points other than this.

Lebron completely owns Ibaka, and Siakam/OG aren't going to do anything to slow down Lebron, neither is strong enough to keep him from the rim. To me the bigger problem is none of those guys really make LBJ work defensively. He will be able to roam and conserve energy, that is where GSW killed the Cavs - LBJ either had to guard Green or KD, there was no hiding.

When's the last time Lebron exerted energy to defend ANYONE? He barely plays D at all. He sags off and looks for boards

[CoachD]

Last year the Raptors played the Cavs with Corey Joseph, Patrick Patterson... and Demarre Carroll; hopefully that puts perspective to anyone basing this year's series on last years.

Don't loop Joseph in with the other two. Joseph is a solid player and if not for financials, would have not wanted to see him go. Great teammate, good defensively, solid on offense (slightly over dribbles at time...though I blame Casey).

Joseph in this new Raptors offense would have looked great.

In my opinion, I think Joseph was part of the problem. Would much rather have Wright and FVV and their skillsets in place of him.

Joseph was 100% part of the problem. He would pound the air out of the ball until they were late in the clock, then not trusting his teammates would attack rim and leave it short or jack long airballs.

Van Vleet and Wright are far, far, far better than Joseph.

[KyRo23]

5. Saying raptors don;t have anyone to defend lebron is true and false - no one does. But Raptors can throw out OG, Siakam, Ibaka on the post, even - Demar and Powell can show different looks from time to time. Everyone just needs to make him work.

You made some good points other than this.

Lebron completely owns Ibaka, and Siakam/OG aren't going to do anything to slow down Lebron, neither is strong enough to keep him from the rim. To me the bigger problem is none of those guys really make LBJ work defensively. He will be able to roam and conserve energy, that is where GSW killed the Cavs - LBJ either had to guard Green or KD, there was no hiding.

When's the last time Lebron exerted energy to defend ANYONE? He barely plays D at all. He sags off and looks for boards

You must have missed the energy he used to turn his head and let Collison have a wide open layup yesterday!

[Duffman100]

Don't loop Joseph in with the other two. Joseph is a solid player and if not for financials, would have not wanted to see him go. Great teammate, good defensively, solid on offense (slightly over dribbles at time...though I blame Casey).

Joseph in this new Raptors offense would have looked great.

In my opinion, I think Joseph was part of the problem. Would much rather have Wright and FVV and their skillsets in place of him.

Joseph was 100% part of the problem. He would pound the air out of the ball until they were late in the clock, then not trusting his teammates would attack rim and leave it short or jack long airballs.

Van Vleet and Wright are far, far, far better than Joseph.

But again, how much of that was our system and how much of it was Joseph. He didn't do that in SA, he didn't do that in Indiana?

[MrSparkle]

Cavs can grind it out. Thompson and Love started to catch their rhythm.

I’d be scared if I’m Toronto.

[OakleyDokely]

Raps in 7

Game 1: TOR
Game 2: CLE
Game 3: CLE
Game 4: TOR
Game 5: TOR
Game 6: CLE
Game 7: TOR

[LightTheBeam]

And things would have ended earlier if Fred didn't get hurt.

Fred is good, but if you are counting on a 20MPG player to put you over the top, you are going to have serious problems come playoff time.

i know you are enjoying the attention so won't respond after this but that last line just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. there are 6 or 7 20MPG players on the Raptors who have made the difference for us all year. clearly you don't know anything about how we play ffs

If the guy had said, Well Lowry was out that is why we won in 6 instead of 4 or 5 that makes sense. But to say that the series was extended because your backup pg? The 2 games you lost, 1 was by 19 and the other game it wasn't your bench who struggled they were all positive +/-

[LightTheBeam]

you said OG was a liability, but he takes and makes 3pters at a similar rate as Bojan.

per36

OG 4.8 3ptA, 37.1% (plyffs: 4.1 3ptA, 46.7%)
BB 5.6 3ptA, 40.2% (plyffs: 6.8 3ptA, 37.8%)

and as for "stretching the floor like indiana did":

TOR: 26.8 3pta/gm, 41.0% (reg season: 33.0 3pta/gm, 35.8%)
IND: 27.1 3pta/gm, 35.8% (reg season: 24.5 3pta/gm, 36.9%)

Per 36 numbers are useless. Bojan shot double the 3's as OG this year, and was more efficient doing so. They aren't on the same levels as shooters. Darren Collison shot the highest % this year from downtown, but nobody respects his shot like they do Curry. OG gets his 3's on wide open kick outs...

Also those numbers are inflated from Lowry shooting almost 8 3's per game during the season. You have the better 3pt shooter, but you don't really have to respect JV and Derozan from 3.

On the other hand the Pacers Center shot and made almost as many 3's as OG did this year.

how are they useless?

you said OG is a liability that they can cheat off of, yet he takes and hits 3s at similar frequency as Bojan.

why do you keep using raw total numbers without acknowledgeing that Bojan gets twice the minutes?

Theres a reason he gets twice the minutes.

[hongdayuan]

expect raps to throw OG, CJ, and Siakam on LeBron, maybe a little bit of powell on switches or in occurrence of foul trouble. Please no more ibaka on LeBron, we have seen enough last year. Throw bodies to the ground if you have to but you gotta keep TT off the offensive rebounds. Put love in the pnr and let JV use his height. Move the ball around and no hero ball from demar. If you have learned anything from the Indiana series is that the refs are never there to bail you out against LeBron. Don't let cavs bench outperform raps bench, that their biggest advantage.

The raps have play a perfect series to win, and winning game 1 would be a very promising start.

[shaolinmilk]

Honestly, as a Toronto sports fan... I know to never ever talk **** when you're playing against a LBJ team. No matter how **** they are, no matter how weak they are... whenever we play a LBJ team, it's just so stupid. He turns into a God against us and somehow all their role players play way better.

I honestly hate how everyone is saying Toronto should win this series... I'm just hoping we don't get swept and win at least a couple of games. I don't ever expect us to beat a LBJ team and this is no exception... I'm expecting us to lose the series tbh and if we win... holy **** that'll be a huge accomplishment.

[hongdayuan]

Fred is good, but if you are counting on a 20MPG player to put you over the top, you are going to have serious problems come playoff time.

i know you are enjoying the attention so won't respond after this but that last line just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. there are 6 or 7 20MPG players on the Raptors who have made the difference for us all year. clearly you don't know anything about how we play ffs

If the guy had said, Well Lowry was out that is why we won in 6 instead of 4 or 5 that makes sense. But to say that the series was extended because your backup pg? The 2 games you lost, 1 was by 19 and the other game it wasn't your bench who struggled they were all positive +/-

FVV is among league leaders in 4th quarter minutes, take a guess of which quarter the raps lost game 4.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Fred is good, but if you are counting on a 20MPG player to put you over the top, you are going to have serious problems come playoff time.

i know you are enjoying the attention so won't respond after this but that last line just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. there are 6 or 7 20MPG players on the Raptors who have made the difference for us all year. clearly you don't know anything about how we play ffs

If the guy had said, Well Lowry was out that is why we won in 6 instead of 4 or 5 that makes sense. But to say that the series was extended because your backup pg? The 2 games you lost, 1 was by 19 and the other game it wasn't your bench who struggled they were all positive +/-

they lost by 19 but they were leading in the game. It would have been sweep man or in 5. Trust us. FVV is the main reason why the bench unit plays as good as anyone, starters or bench.

[LightTheBeam]

i know you are enjoying the attention so won't respond after this but that last line just shows you have no idea what you are talking about. there are 6 or 7 20MPG players on the Raptors who have made the difference for us all year. clearly you don't know anything about how we play ffs

If the guy had said, Well Lowry was out that is why we won in 6 instead of 4 or 5 that makes sense. But to say that the series was extended because your backup pg? The 2 games you lost, 1 was by 19 and the other game it wasn't your bench who struggled they were all positive +/-

they lost by 19 but they were leading in the game. It would have been sweep man or in 5. Trust us. FVV is the main reason why the bench unit plays as good as anyone, starters or bench.

And if George HIll was able to finish out game 3, the Cavs may have won in 5

[everdiso]

I get that the Cavs barely got past the Pacers but Toronto didn't exactly look impressive against a mediocre 8th seed Washington team. The Wizards - with all their late season troubles and chemistry issues - were about even with the Raptors outside two fourth quarter collapses. With a healthy Porter that's probably a seven game series also.

Going with Lebron in 6

Raps handled them comfortably in wins, ppg, and netrating. The only thing that kept it from being a complete walkover was one 4th quarter meltdown that was probably mostly coach's fault.

and vanvleet missing 5gms was a bigger deal than otto missing one.

[mtcan]

I get that the Cavs barely got past the Pacers but Toronto didn't exactly look impressive against a mediocre 8th seed Washington team. The Wizards - with all their late season troubles and chemistry issues - were about even with the Raptors outside two fourth quarter collapses. With a healthy Porter that's probably a seven game series also.

Going with Lebron in 6

With a healthy VanVleet the series may have lasted 5 games or less. I don't think you realize what Fred VanVleet means to the bench and even in the closing minutes of the 4th quarter. He has been closing games consistently all season long. When you lose a piece like that for 5 games in a series...a lot can change.

[guess_wh0]

Honestly, as a Toronto sports fan... I know to never ever talk **** when you're playing against a LBJ team. No matter how **** they are, no matter how weak they are... whenever we play a LBJ team, it's just so stupid. He turns into a God against us and somehow all their role players play way better.

I honestly hate how everyone is saying Toronto should win this series... I'm just hoping we don't get swept and win at least a couple of games. I don't ever expect us to beat a LBJ team and this is no exception... I'm expecting us to lose the series tbh and if we win... holy **** that'll be a huge accomplishment.

Glad the Rapz don't subscribe to such loserish mentality...

Hope we don't get swept...What??? Please let us win one..

You must be quite a champion in real life, with that outlook.

[Coco Costanza]

I honestly hate how everyone is saying Toronto should win this series... I'm just hoping we don't get swept and win at least a couple of games. I don't ever expect us to beat a LBJ team and this is no exception... I'm expecting us to lose the series tbh and if we win... holy **** that'll be a huge accomplishment.

Ignoring the fact the Raptors are a better team than the Cavs, I think there a number of reasons why I think the Raptors should win

1. The Cavs are coming off a tough seven game series against the Pacers, a team the Raptors are better than
2. LeBron has taken the bulk of the workload, and should be gassed by the end of this series, if he's not already
3. Conversely, the Raptors are well rested. There will also be less rest for the Cavs between games
4. Raptors have home court advantage

I'll be charitable and say Raptors in six.