2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[Texas Chuck]

You can't help yourself, always dogging out Trae and thinking just because you are a mod, it's okay. You free to give your hot takes but Gilbert Arenas or a penniless Steph is just meh posting that we wouldn't be okay with from regular posters. If I said Luka was a rich mans Tyreke Evans and dollar general verison of Larry Bird. You would find it offensive. Please give all players the same respect sir.

You are fine to give a hot take, Trae defense, Luka defense, Luka IQ, Bagley advanced stats, Luka scoring, Luka speed but stop with the penniless ****. That's disrespectful!

Re-read my post before you come calling me out. Calling him Gilbert Arenas is clearly a compliment. Calling him a penniless Steph Curry is clearly a compliment. Do you not get Steph Curry is in the conversation of greatest offensive players of all-time? Educate yourself if you don't understand that. If you can't understand that my post is simply saying Luka is clearly the best prospect and not derogatory towards Trae Young, you wear that. It's not on me.


@GB Mods Is it okay for Ken to continually bring up me being a Mod on other boards to justify these types of responses? My understanding is that I am just a poster on this board with no Mod-powers. My name being blue really needs to be irrelevant here. I don't think I'm special because I'm a Mod. And how sad would it be if I did. My takes hot or lukewarm have nothing to do with my volunteer work here as a Moderator of the Trade Board or Mavs board.

[King Ken]

You can't help yourself, always dogging out Trae and thinking just because you are a mod, it's okay. You free to give your hot takes but Gilbert Arenas or a penniless Steph is just meh posting that we wouldn't be okay with from regular posters. If I said Luka was a rich mans Tyreke Evans and dollar general verison of Larry Bird. You would find it offensive. Please give all players the same respect sir.

You are fine to give a hot take, Trae defense, Luka defense, Luka IQ, Bagley advanced stats, Luka scoring, Luka speed but stop with the penniless ****. That's disrespectful!

Re-read my post before you come calling me out. Calling him Gilbert Arenas is clearly a compliment. Calling him a penniless Steph Curry is clearly a compliment. Do you not get Steph Curry is in the conversation of greatest offensive players of all-time? Educate yourself if you don't understand that. If you can't understand that my post is simply saying Luka is clearly the best prospect and not derogatory towards Trae Young, you wear that. It's not on me.

@GB Mods Is it okay for Ken to continually bring up me being a Mod on other boards to justify these types of responses? My understanding is that I am just a poster on this board with no Mod-powers. My name being blue really needs to be irrelevant here. I don't think I'm special because I'm a Mod. And how sad would it be if I did.

Arenas is not a compliment. Trae is a smaller true PG. Gilbert is a combo guard. They play completely different games. What you are trying to say it, well, Trae can score and jack up stuff potentially really well. That's not really a compliment especially when the said player isn't the prototype of what you compared him to. that's you saying, he a damn bust. He can't play like Gilbert or even attempt to. He doesn't have the size and strength and he would just be a Lou Williams type at his size if he tried.

A compliment is he has a chance to be a more risky scoring verison of Steve Nash or Zeke Thomas with more shooting and court vision and less defense. Things are within his prototype in a comparable sense and it isn't a pun or kicks and giggles to get daps from your friends and fans of your squad.

A penniless Steph Curry isn't Steph lite, poor mans Steph. It's the equalivent to a homeless mans Steph. That's the same thing as saying he is Seth Curry. Just an imposter. A Gilberg to Bill Goldberg. That's not a compliment.

This is the first time I called you out as a mod. You do like to abuse that badge in here. You post with no respect and that's not the way we do things here on GB. You can take that elsewhere sir.

[Texas Chuck]

Arenas is not a compliment. Trae is a smaller true PG. Gilbert is a combo guard. They play completely different games. What you are trying to say it, well, Trae can score and jack up stuff. That's not really a compliment especially when the said player isn't the prototype of what you compared him to. that's you saying, he a damn bust. He can't play like Gilbert or even attempt to. He doesn't have the size and strength and he would just be a Lou Williams type at his size if he tried.


This is the first time I called you out as a mod. You do like to abuse that badge in here. You post with no respect and that's not the way we do things here on GB. You can take that elsewhere sir.

Ken,

seriously dude something is not right with your comprehension. I post what I mean. I didn't say Trae can jack up stuff(tho he can ). I didn't come close to saying he was a bust. No idea how you could possibly even read that into it.

Seriously Mods, is this 2nd part I quoted okay?

[King Ken]

Arenas is not a compliment. Trae is a smaller true PG. Gilbert is a combo guard. They play completely different games. What you are trying to say it, well, Trae can score and jack up stuff. That's not really a compliment especially when the said player isn't the prototype of what you compared him to. that's you saying, he a damn bust. He can't play like Gilbert or even attempt to. He doesn't have the size and strength and he would just be a Lou Williams type at his size if he tried.


This is the first time I called you out as a mod. You do like to abuse that badge in here. You post with no respect and that's not the way we do things here on GB. You can take that elsewhere sir.

Ken,

seriously dude something is not right with your comprehension. I post what I mean. I didn't say Trae can jack up stuff(tho he can ). I didn't come close to saying he was a bust. No idea how you could possibly even read that into it.

Seriously Mods, is this 2nd part I quoted okay?

Your the one posting stuff that our mods said don't do in the 1st post and now you want to @ mods. You are the one breaking our rules sir.

[Texas Chuck]

Your the one posting stuff that our mods said don't do in the 1st post and now you want to @ mods. You are the one breaking our rules sir.

Trust me I read Dirk's post in the OP and respect his request. I'll drop it and leave it to the GB Mods to deal with us or ignore us.

But seriously Gilbert Arenas was a terrific player--made 3 all-NBA teams from 05-07. Was a fringe MVP candidate. I meant it as a compliment. I intentionally didn't use homeless Steph Curry because Steph Curry is such a special player it's not fair to Trae to even state that.

You said I'd be angry if you called him a poor man's Bird. I wouldn't. He doesn't belong anywhere near Bird comparisons right now. Or in the Lebron comp threads that popped up I laughed at them. Those guys are all-time greats. Luka is just a special rookie. We all need to slow way down on rushing to assume best or worst case scenarios.

My consistent position itt has simply been that all evidence we have shows Luka to be the best prospect. This isn't an opinion I developed because he plays for the Mavs. You can find plenty of posts of me saying this well before the draft. Of course his play this season only solidifies what so many of us believed.

I can't help you if you choose to personalize everything and assume the worst when it comes to Trae. I have no issue with him. Me saying he's not as good as Luka isn't an insult.

[King Ken]

Your the one posting stuff that our mods said don't do in the 1st post and now you want to @ mods. You are the one breaking our rules sir.

Trust me I read Dirk's post in the OP and respect his request. I'll drop it and leave it to the GB Mods to deal with us or ignore us.

But seriously Gilbert Arenas was a terrific player--made 3 all-NBA teams from 05-07. Was a fringe MVP candidate. I meant it as a compliment. I intentionally didn't use homeless Steph Curry because Steph Curry is such a special player it's not fair to Trae to even state that.

You said I'd be angry if you called him a poor man's Bird. I wouldn't. He doesn't belong anywhere near Bird comparisons right now. Or in the Lebron comp threads that popped up I laughed at them. Those guys are all-time greats. Luka is just a special rookie. We all need to slow way down on rushing to assume best or worst case scenarios.

My consistent position itt has simply been that all evidence we have shows Luka to be the best prospect. This isn't an opinion I developed because he plays for the Mavs. You can find plenty of posts of me saying this well before the draft. Of course his play this season only solidifies what so many of us believed.

I can't help you if you choose to personalize everything and assume the worst when it comes to Trae. I have no issue with him. Me saying he's not as good as Luka isn't an insult.

Dirk talks about not antagonizing a fanbase. Something you seem to do and then act like it's no big deal. If I did that, I know I would be getting a warning and rightfully so but you did that because you were like, I am a mod and I can do whatever the hell i want to do. F the Hawks and damn their fanbase!

Man forget you for that. That's weak. I don't do that to your fans or fanbase. If I ever did, I never did it again. I would apologize but you are stubbornly defending yourself like what you said wasn't trash!

There is NO verison of Gilbert that Trae could ever be. He doesn't have the size, athletic ability in the air, the strength or length to even dream of it. At best, it would look like Lou Williams but you said Gil because like Trae, he jacks shots and his shot selection is not the best and saying Lou Williams is obvious trolling so you say Gilbert as if thats better. NO version and you know this.

There is no compliments to any player if you call them a homeless or penniless verison. That's held for scrubs only. Josh Smith is a poor mans LeBron but Royce White is a penniless LeBron. Even Steph lite is respectful. That's like say, he gonna be damn good but he ain't gonna be Steph good. Steph is going to be one of the top ATG, that's respectable honestly. Saying penniless or homeless verison of any player is basically saying, he is the barely in the NBA verison. That's disrespectful if the player is putting in work like Trae is.

You just poking the bear. That's all your doing and I don't find it cute or funny at all. When Dirk closed the last thread, it was because I was poking the bear with Luka fans. I will be man enough to admit that now. Please don't do the same. Be respectful from here out.

[LKN]

Why are people saying Luka is "unathletic"? There's more to athleticism than running and jumping..... in fact I'd argue those things are somewhat overrated.

Other components of athleticism:

- Hand Eye coordination
- Body Control
- Agility
- Quickness

Doncic rates very highly in several of these... and I hate to compare him to Larry Bird (since EVERY white player gets compared to Bird)... but he really does remind me of him to some degree. Note that I'm NOT SAYING LUKA IS AS GOOD AS BIRD!!!!!!!! (He's got a long way to go!)

Bird was another guy that people called "unathletic" even though he really wasn't.

Bird was insanely coordinated, had great body control and was deceptively quick. Sounds just like Doncic doesn't it?

Bird was also a pretty good defender despite myths to the contrary (particularly a good team defender). Again reminds me of Doncic, who's quite a bit better at defense than people think.

Despite people thinking Bird was "not that athletic" he was able to get where he wanted to on the floor and get his shot off whenever he needed to..... again, just like Doncic.

Both players are/were really good at varying their speed/pace while dribbling and then using their deceptive quickness to get by people.

[Sactowndog]

I mean maybe this is his ceiling or close to it. That would be a huge surprise and disappointment, but he wouldn't be the first player to fall in love with the lifestyle and not continue to work to improve. Doesn't sound like the hyper-competitive Luka Doncic that wins titles and MVPs and gets angry with losses, but sure maybe.

But realize people who suggest he is either have a clear agenda or a bias against Euro(read: not freak athletes because Giannis escapes this) or they are just ignorant in thinking that polished equals finished or that professional experiences means you can't continue to grow.

It's just a position not remotely justifiable on any level. Stop engaging with posters suggesting that. Particularly if they are fans of a team who passed on Luka. Every single one of us is self-deluded in order to protect ourselves. It's a natural defense mechanism many of them aren't self-aware enough to even realize they are doing it.

I honestly hope Bagley and Fox become a modern Stockton/Malone or Nash/Dirk or Nash/Amare. I hope Trae Young is the good Gilbert Arenas or the penniless Steph Curry.

But today? Today there is no evidence whatsoever to justify saying they have higher ceilings. Larry Bird was never an elite athlete in terms of running fast or jumping high. Nor was Nash, Magic, Duncan, Stockton, Dirk, Steph, Harden, etc Of course people define athlete way too narrowly and place far too little stock in the mental components.

Gerald Green was never ever ever going to be more than a role player because his understanding of the game is too limited despite being a great athlete. Same with Zach Lavine. But guys like Danny Green, Joe Ingles, Kyle Korver, Boris Diaw all have impacts way beyond their athleticism because they just understand basketball.

Or heck any of us who regularly play pickup know that the 40-something guys at the gym almost always hold the 20-something guys off the court despite giving up size and athleticism because they just understand the game at a higher level.

This Luka is peaking at 19 is one of the stupidest memes in the history of this board.

Well if your upset about how some view Luka’s ceiling, you’d understand others don’t appreciate your takes on their prospects (Kings possibly viewing Bagley as a bench player/Buddy Hield having more value at the time of his trade). Maybe we should start a poll on whether or not Hield had more value when the Pelicans traded him than Bagley does now (Id love to)? Takes like those make some not appreciate where your coming from, or the prospect that you promote. I’ve personally found some Luka supporters over zealous to the point of not respecting the class.

Bagley is a phenomenal prospect, and I think it’s fair to say he’s more physically gifted and has more room to grow than an unathletic high usage point forward who needs to monopolize the offense. It’s a legit argument that certain prospects have less experience, are more raw, and have higher ceilings in proportion to what they are showing now

As far as Trae/Luka is concerned, Im traditional in i want the ball in the hands of my point guard, who is more apt to break down defense

You don’t have higher ceiling just because you’re raw and more athletic. What about skills? Bagley might be more far away from his ceiling, he will probably improve more, but that doesn’t mean he will ever catch Luka, who is classes away from him at the moment. And what this ceiling is really anyway? Vivid imagination how your player will look someday? Your imagination is new Giannis and mine 6’8”, 230 combination of Bird, Magic, Harden and Curry. Whose ceiling/vivid imagination is better player? Saying that one player has higher ceiling because he’s more athletic is total nonsense. I admit though, that all this ceiling talk is nonsense per se. It’s like playing poker with empty cards and just making up what you have in the hand.

Perhaps we have a different definition of ceiling. To me ceiling is your raw physical and mental capabilities: Your BBIQ, your acceleration (mentioned in the article), your leaping quickness and height, your hand size and arm span, your speed end to end, your depth perception.

Skills are learned and you can become more skilled but the progression of Skills is hyperbolic. This can obviously be seen by charting the paths and careers of any professional athlete. If skills were not hyperbolic than players careers would never plateau and decline.

Luka is very very skilled. That statement is a compliment. He has honed that skill with 4 years of NBA coaching and visiting places like P3. But it also means he is further down the hyperbolic curve of skills. A curve that by definition is hyperbolic in shape. To not acknowledge he as less room for improvement is to magically state the skills curve is suddenly a straight line for Luka when it’s hyperbolic for everyone else. And sorry that kind of pixie dust only exists in the minds of ardent Luka fan boys.

[Bob8]

Well if your upset about how some view Luka’s ceiling, you’d understand others don’t appreciate your takes on their prospects (Kings possibly viewing Bagley as a bench player/Buddy Hield having more value at the time of his trade). Maybe we should start a poll on whether or not Hield had more value when the Pelicans traded him than Bagley does now (Id love to)? Takes like those make some not appreciate where your coming from, or the prospect that you promote. I’ve personally found some Luka supporters over zealous to the point of not respecting the class.

Bagley is a phenomenal prospect, and I think it’s fair to say he’s more physically gifted and has more room to grow than an unathletic high usage point forward who needs to monopolize the offense. It’s a legit argument that certain prospects have less experience, are more raw, and have higher ceilings in proportion to what they are showing now

As far as Trae/Luka is concerned, Im traditional in i want the ball in the hands of my point guard, who is more apt to break down defense

You don’t have higher ceiling just because you’re raw and more athletic. What about skills? Bagley might be more far away from his ceiling, he will probably improve more, but that doesn’t mean he will ever catch Luka, who is classes away from him at the moment. And what this ceiling is really anyway? Vivid imagination how your player will look someday? Your imagination is new Giannis and mine 6’8”, 230 combination of Bird, Magic, Harden and Curry. Whose ceiling/vivid imagination is better player? Saying that one player has higher ceiling because he’s more athletic is total nonsense. I admit though, that all this ceiling talk is nonsense per se. It’s like playing poker with empty cards and just making up what you have in the hand.

Perhaps we have a different definition of ceiling. To me ceiling is your raw physical and mental capabilities: Your BBIQ, your acceleration (mentioned in the article), your leaping quickness and height, your hand size and arm span, your speed end to end, your depth perception.

Skills are learned and you can become more skilled but the progression of Skills is hyperbolic. This can obviously be seen by charting the paths and careers of any professional athlete. If skills were not hyperbolic than players careers would never plateau and decline.

Luka is very very skilled. That statement is a compliment. He has honed that skill with 4 years of NBA coaching and visiting places like P3. But it also means he is further down the hyperbolic curve of skills. A curve that by definition is hyperbolic in shape. To not acknowledge he as less room for improvement is to magically state the skills curve is suddenly a straight line for Luka when it’s hyperbolic for everyone else. And sorry that kind of pixie dust only exists in the minds of ardent Luka fan boys.

I see you have very vivid imagination for your player and very limited for Luka. Understandable. I have very limited imagination too, so I will take 28/8/8 Luka over unlimited Bagley everyday.

[E-Balla]

trae will easily be an all star. how can anyone not see that

Because the player they like can't be good unless they **** on every other rookie taken over him or in the case of Trae they have to **** on the rookie they were traded for. It's less about liking Luka and more about...

Nonsense. Hawks fans doing this crap way more than Luka fans. It's not even Doncic/Mavs fans who mention Young, most of the time. I personally only wrote good things about Young, I think he is a tremendous talent, and I know I'm not alone with this among Mavs fans. The same cannot be said about kg01 and King Ken, and I almost spat out my beverage when the former had the audacity to imply that Doncic fans are doing that crap, when it's actually the opposite. We are happy with Luka and we think Young is a good young talent, and we cannot do anything about neutral fans and the media bashing him and the Hawks, but when they do that, it would be amazing if you wouldn't run to this thread to create something from nothing. Also, Hawks fans, don't hate Luka, what does he have to do with the narrative? Nothing, hate the neutral fans and the media, not him.

There's been multiple threads and posts about how dumb the Hawks were for trading Luka and how its one of the worst trades ever. You can't be reading the same board we are posting on.

[E-Balla]

Why are people saying Luka is "unathletic"? There's more to athleticism than running and jumping..... in fact I'd argue those things are somewhat overrated.

Other components of athleticism:

- Hand Eye coordination
- Body Control
- Agility
- Quickness

Doncic rates very highly in several of these... and I hate to compare him to Larry Bird (since EVERY white player gets compared to Bird)... but he really does remind me of him to some degree. Note that I'm NOT SAYING LUKA IS AS GOOD AS BIRD!!!!!!!! (He's got a long way to go!)

Bird was another guy that people called "unathletic" even though he really wasn't.

Bird was insanely coordinated, had great body control and was deceptively quick. Sounds just like Doncic doesn't it?

Bird was also a pretty good defender despite myths to the contrary (particularly a good team defender). Again reminds me of Doncic, who's quite a bit better at defense than people think.

Despite people thinking Bird was "not that athletic" he was able to get where he wanted to on the floor and get his shot off whenever he needed to..... again, just like Doncic.

Both players are/were really good at varying their speed/pace while dribbling and then using their deceptive quickness to get by people.

Bird was 6-10. What's athletic for him and Luka is different.

Luka is a decent athlete, but a below average athlete, especially right now since he's built like a regular teen. Once he gets in shape he'll probably be a good athlete. He's not really quick, not at all fast, but he has good size and great strength for his age.

Athletically Luka is kinda like Paul Pierce.

[zimpy27]

Arenas is not a compliment. Trae is a smaller true PG. Gilbert is a combo guard. They play completely different games. What you are trying to say it, well, Trae can score and jack up stuff. That's not really a compliment especially when the said player isn't the prototype of what you compared him to. that's you saying, he a damn bust. He can't play like Gilbert or even attempt to. He doesn't have the size and strength and he would just be a Lou Williams type at his size if he tried.


This is the first time I called you out as a mod. You do like to abuse that badge in here. You post with no respect and that's not the way we do things here on GB. You can take that elsewhere sir.

Ken,

seriously dude something is not right with your comprehension. I post what I mean. I didn't say Trae can jack up stuff(tho he can ). I didn't come close to saying he was a bust. No idea how you could possibly even read that into it.

Seriously Mods, is this 2nd part I quoted okay?

"Ken, it's irrelevant here whether or not Chuck is a mod and stop backseat moderating. If you disagree with a post then talk about the opinion, don't target the individual or the person or any pre-conceived notions you may have about them.

Chuck, don't question the posters reading comprehension.

As far as violations, they are minor. This thread doesn't have a stricter policy than the rest of the GB, Dirk is calling for the posters to be better not out of fear of punishment but out of the promise of a rewarding discussion for everyone. That is not an invitation to point fingers at those not partaking.

Again, question the post without attacking the poster. If someone on here annoys you then just ignore, their opinion won't change the fate of any of these players.

[CPNorings]

All this hoopla... if the Mavs called you up and said, “Hey, straight swap Luka for Trae” would you do it? The answer is yes, so these arguments are immaterial.

And honestly, Luka’s size is a big factor in why he’s more valuable. The league is bigger and faster, a 6’7” guy who plays like a PG is a huge benefit compared to a relatively slight guy like Trae. He’s just harder to pair with. Steph is the greatest shooter of all time, plus he’s paired with a bigger guard who complements him perfectly in Klay. It’s hard to find those guys, you end up with a Lillard/McCollum more often than not (great, but unlikely to ever be ring caliber). Plus straight PGs are less valuable than ever, there are what, 20-25 starting quality ones atm? The beauty of Luka is you can complement him with smaller guards while he runs the offense from the 3 (he’s the 3rd guard in Rick’s beloved 3 guard lineups).

Honestly, I see Trae’s likely career as Jet Terry. Great dude, champion, plays forever, but not the centerpiece of your team.

[IllmaticHandler]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

[kg01]

Thread was much more fun last year when all you had to fight about was Simmons being an 8th year "rookie".

Joke. Put the guns down, 6ers.

This year, sh*t gets way too 'real' wit some-a y'all.

[Bob8]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

That his ceiling is unlimited, the highest in this draft class.

[IllmaticHandler]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

That his ceiling is unlimited, the highest in this draft class.

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

[Sactowndog]

You don’t have higher ceiling just because you’re raw and more athletic. What about skills? Bagley might be more far away from his ceiling, he will probably improve more, but that doesn’t mean he will ever catch Luka, who is classes away from him at the moment. And what this ceiling is really anyway? Vivid imagination how your player will look someday? Your imagination is new Giannis and mine 6’8”, 230 combination of Bird, Magic, Harden and Curry. Whose ceiling/vivid imagination is better player? Saying that one player has higher ceiling because he’s more athletic is total nonsense. I admit though, that all this ceiling talk is nonsense per se. It’s like playing poker with empty cards and just making up what you have in the hand.

Perhaps we have a different definition of ceiling. To me ceiling is your raw physical and mental capabilities: Your BBIQ, your acceleration (mentioned in the article), your leaping quickness and height, your hand size and arm span, your speed end to end, your depth perception.

Skills are learned and you can become more skilled but the progression of Skills is hyperbolic. This can obviously be seen by charting the paths and careers of any professional athlete. If skills were not hyperbolic than players careers would never plateau and decline.

Luka is very very skilled. That statement is a compliment. He has honed that skill with 4 years of NBA coaching and visiting places like P3. But it also means he is further down the hyperbolic curve of skills. A curve that by definition is hyperbolic in shape. To not acknowledge he as less room for improvement is to magically state the skills curve is suddenly a straight line for Luka when it’s hyperbolic for everyone else. And sorry that kind of pixie dust only exists in the minds of ardent Luka fan boys.

I see you have very vivid imagination for your player and very limited for Luka. Understandable. I have very limited imagination too, so I will take 28/8/8 Luka over unlimited Bagley everyday.

Not imagination. It’s called logic which seems to escape many of the Luka fan boys.

[Sactowndog]

Why are people saying Luka is "unathletic"? There's more to athleticism than running and jumping..... in fact I'd argue those things are somewhat overrated.

Other components of athleticism:

- Hand Eye coordination
- Body Control
- Agility
- Quickness

Doncic rates very highly in several of these... and I hate to compare him to Larry Bird (since EVERY white player gets compared to Bird)... but he really does remind me of him to some degree. Note that I'm NOT SAYING LUKA IS AS GOOD AS BIRD!!!!!!!! (He's got a long way to go!)

Bird was another guy that people called "unathletic" even though he really wasn't.

Bird was insanely coordinated, had great body control and was deceptively quick. Sounds just like Doncic doesn't it?

Bird was also a pretty good defender despite myths to the contrary (particularly a good team defender). Again reminds me of Doncic, who's quite a bit better at defense than people think.

Despite people thinking Bird was "not that athletic" he was able to get where he wanted to on the floor and get his shot off whenever he needed to..... again, just like Doncic.

Both players are/were really good at varying their speed/pace while dribbling and then using their deceptive quickness to get by people.

Bird was 6-10. What's athletic for him and Luka is different.

Luka is a decent athlete, but a below average athlete, especially right now since he's built like a regular teen. Once he gets in shape he'll probably be a good athlete. He's not really quick, not at all fast, but he has good size and great strength for his age.

Athletically Luka is kinda like Paul Pierce.

Luka has a very high BBIQ which will take him far. The mental is as important as the physical in a persons ceiling.

[Bob8]

What if I told you Mitchell Robinson is the Best shot blocker out of any rookie and of one the best all time to enter the NBA.

That his ceiling is unlimited, the highest in this draft class.

Your jokes are corny. Look at you trying to start schit, but cry about those Hawk fans starting something. Go sit down somewhere.

Someone explain to me that Bagley has higher ceiling than Luka because athleticism cannot be develop and skills can. So logic tells me if Robinson develops elite skills, he will be better than everyone, because of his special body.