FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 | SPAIN are new WORLD CHAMPIONS

[bb22]

Basically, if the US is gonna win this tournament, it's going to be on a steady diet of jump shots by guys like Mitchell, Tatum, Brown, Barnes, Middleton, Smart, White...) Not that it can't happen, but i don't really trust those guys not to put up bricks when the pressure is on. Idk, i'd rather take my chances with Serbia. Jokic is better than any US player at this tournament by a country mile. Bogdanovic is arguably better than Mitchell in this setting, when he's the primary offensive option on the perimeter he does well, especially in FIBA basketball. Bjelica is better than guys like Barnes and Brown too, definitely more consistent in international ball.

I don’t agree with the comparisons, but I kind of see what your saying. Fiba ball favors a particular skill set. However, it will come down to how the rosters match up and not how well either team (or players) perform against countries that are just happy to participate. Serbia won’t get away with playing their bench heavy minutes against the states. They will be particularly vulnerable on the defensive end, and will have to be extremely efficient offensively. Just like every year, I assume the US will look much better by the knock out stage. If they do meet, I think it will be a closer game than in the past. IMO Serbia has a chance to win if they play their game perfectly. This is different from the past, when even a perfect game wouldn’t be enough (group stage rio olympics).

[scrabbarista]

Have reached overtime in watching the highlights of the Poland-China game. Watching the Chinese commentary. Pretty sure these are the same two commentators who used to do the NBA games when I lived in Shanghai in 2009. Their commentary is kind of inadvertently hilarious, and even more so in a game like this where national pride is on the line and they know they're getting some biased calls. Credit the broadcast team for at least having the nuts (or naivety) to replay those awful calls, though.

Anyway, I feel bad that Zhou Qi made such mistakes, but it looks like that at least the better team won. It's nice when that happens in spite of crooked refereeing.

EDIT: Finished watching. Truly an abysmal choke job by China. I don't often use that phrase, because the other team still has to win the game, but there were some brutal mental eras in the most critical moments of regulation and overtime by China. Hard to characterize it as anything other than snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

[limbo]

Serbia won’t get away with playing their bench heavy minutes against the states. They will be particularly vulnerable on the defensive end, and will have to be extremely efficient offensively. Just like every year, I assume the US will look much better by the knock out stage. If they do meet, I think it will be a closer game than in the past. IMO Serbia has a chance to win if they play their game perfectly. This is different from the past, when even a perfect game wouldn’t be enough (group stage rio olympics).

Away with? The only reason Serbia is playing twelve deep right now is because they're blowing severely under-matched teams out in the 1st quarter. Going deep is not their calling card, they just have a solid bench where players know how to play within the system they got. Once the elimination rounds start, the coach will shore up the rotations and their best players will get to play most of the matches. And this means Jokic, Bogdanovic, Bjelica, Jovic will be playing over 30 minutes, which is not good news at all if you're the opposition.

I don't think this US team has the proverbial 'switch' they could turn to take their game up a couple of gears when needed. What you saw in the opening game and pre-tournament exhibition games is what you get. This isn't LeBron, CP3, Wade, Kobe surrounded by all-stars... not even the likes of Curry, KD, AD in recent years, we're talking about a team that will heavily rely upon the offensive (and defensive) output of guys like Tatum, Mitchell, Brown, Barnes, Smart with Joe Harris, Derrick White, Brook Lopez, Plump Lee as the backup substitutions... Really? Is anyone scared of these guys? And that's like 3/4 of the team i just mentioned.

I think it's easier for Serbia to be efficient offensively than it is for this US team. Serbia has a clear system with Jokic as the focal point and Bogdanovic as the primary scorer and the rest of the squad knows how to complement each other. There's no such structure with the US. There never is, because it's always an assortment of different players coming together for a basketball Summer camp. The thing is that it never matters because when you bring the absolute best players in the World they're talent is enough to mask other deficiencies in terms of fit/chemistry. But the talent needs to be upper echelon, which guys on this US roster DEFINITELY aren't. Tatum and Mitchell are suppose to be the 2nd and 3rd options on this team behind Kemba but these dudes can't even perform admirably on their own NBA teams. Their impact isn't even close to all-star level.

If Pop had more time to coach this team, i could envision him coming up with some sort of system that makes the most out of the players, but from the games i watched so far, it's just a lot of players being left to their own devices, which in the case of guys like Tatum, Mitchell, Brown, Barnes etc. will inevitably mean a lot of 1v5 basketball. These players all have very poor reputations of moving the ball and the other guys who understand this concept like Smart, Middleton, White are just not good enough individually to impose themselves on the game to the degree needed, not to mention they off-ball options they have are bad as well.

Defensively, i don't see the lockdown potential either. Who is really a good defender on this roster in the first place? Turner, Smart, Middleton and that's about it. Maybe Tatum can be above average. Brown is average at best, probably will get exploited by savvy ball movement. Kemba is pretty bad on that end and he'll play heavy minutes. Lopez, Plump Lee, Harris, Barnes, Mitchell, White... nah, they ain't stopping nobody.

[Slartibartfast]

really? bit hyperbolic there after a game vs the phillppines.

Their two games so far are part of why I'm saying this, but there are more important factors. Team USA looked pretty bad against the Czech team, and, well, their roster is just bad by their standards. They can beat Serbia, but again, I think it will/would take almost everything they have. I think this Serbian team is at the level of the 2008 and 2012 Spain teams, the ones that actually played two tight Olympic finals against a vastly superior Team USA team.

I don’t think they are anywhere close. They have a solid team with 1 superstar level player and one above average guard. Boban and Bjelica are solid too. Everyone else isn’t NBA worthy. They’ve been practicing since early July, most of the team participated in the last couple of word championship qualification games, and they also played in the euro championship recently.
They’ve improved over the past 5 years, but also lost by 30+ to the states in both previous finals. Spain gave two of the most talented US squads a scare in both ‘08 and ‘12 and had a squad of NBA all stars and some of the best euroleague guys.

No need for us to get bogged down in comps to prior NTs. What matters is how they stack up in this one. They lack a jitterbug quick guard but otherwise I think they are well built to challenge this USA squad

[Slartibartfast]

Serbia won’t get away with playing their bench heavy minutes against the states. They will be particularly vulnerable on the defensive end, and will have to be extremely efficient offensively. Just like every year, I assume the US will look much better by the knock out stage. If they do meet, I think it will be a closer game than in the past. IMO Serbia has a chance to win if they play their game perfectly. This is different from the past, when even a perfect game wouldn’t be enough (group stage rio olympics).

Away with? The only reason Serbia is playing twelve deep right now is because they're blowing severely under-matched teams out in the 1st quarter. Going deep is not their calling card, they just have a solid bench where players know how to play within the system they got. Once the elimination rounds start, the coach will shore up the rotations and their best players will get to play most of the matches. And this means Jokic, Bogdanovic, Bjelica, Jovic will be playing over 30 minutes, which is not good news at all if you're the opposition.

I don't think this US team has the proverbial 'switch' they could turn to take their game up a couple of gears when needed. What you saw in the opening game and pre-tournament exhibition games is what you get. This isn't LeBron, CP3, Wade, Kobe surrounded by all-stars... not even the likes of Curry, KD, AD in recent years, we're talking about a team that will heavily rely upon the offensive (and defensive) output of guys like Tatum, Mitchell, Brown, Barnes, Smart with Joe Harris, Derrick White, Brook Lopez, Plump Lee as the backup substitutions... Really? Is anyone scared of these guys? And that's like 3/4 of the team i just mentioned.

I think it's easier for Serbia to be efficient offensively than it is for this US team. Serbia has a clear system with Jokic as the focal point and Bogdanovic as the primary scorer and the rest of the squad knows how to complement each other. There's no such structure with the US. There never is, because it's always an assortment of different players coming together for a basketball Summer camp. The thing is that it never matters because when you bring the absolute best players in the World they're talent is enough to mask other deficiencies in terms of fit/chemistry. But the talent needs to be upper echelon, which guys on this US roster DEFINITELY aren't. Tatum and Mitchell are suppose to be the 2nd and 3rd options on this team behind Kemba but these dudes can't even perform admirably on their own NBA teams. Their impact isn't even close to all-star level.

If Pop had more time to coach this team, i could envision him coming up with some sort of system that makes the most out of the players, but from the games i watched so far, it's just a lot of players being left to their own devices, which in the case of guys like Tatum, Mitchell, Brown, Barnes etc. will inevitably mean a lot of 1v5 basketball. These players all have very poor reputations of moving the ball and the other guys who understand this concept like Smart, Middleton, White are just not good enough individually to impose themselves on the game to the degree needed, not to mention they off-ball options they have are bad as well.

Defensively, i don't see the lockdown potential either. Who is really a good defender on this roster in the first place? Turner, Smart, Middleton and that's about it. Maybe Tatum can be above average. Brown is average at best, probably will get exploited by savvy ball movement. Kemba is pretty bad on that end and he'll play heavy minutes. Lopez, Plump Lee, Harris, Barnes, Mitchell, White... nah, they ain't stopping nobody.

USA's defensive advantages are speed and depth. They will use that to press ballhandlers and get their athletic wing guys to play at peak intensity, knowing that they can cycle equivalent talent in and out. That will then open up transition opportunities where their basic halfcourt playmaking doesn't hold them back. Backing up their press, they have quality shot-blocking.

Defensively, they will be most vulnerable to teams with multiple playmakers who can break their press and the size to exploit their height/weight deficiencies at the 4. Bigs who can shoot and pull their shot blocker will also really hurt them.

Offensively, they rely enormously on the quickness advantages of Kemba and Mitchell to create opportunities for the rest of the team. That's why Australia was able to fluster them with Mills and Delly.

I think Serbia has the tools to expose the USA defense. Jokic as a press-breaker and a huge half-court problem. Bjelica as a secondary playmaker. Bogdanovich as a PNR threat. Shooting and size from the other perimeter guys. Massive size to punish USA down low.

Defensively, USA's quick guards could cause them a lot of problems, and USA is loaded with shooters to punish breakdowns.

So I think both teams will be able to score on each other. Pretty evenly matched in that sense.

But I don't think Serbia is significantly more dangerous to USA than Greece and France. I rate France in particularly as a big danger to Team USA. They too have multiple playmakers to break the USA pressure. They are not as potent as Serbia offensively, but they have good playmakers, shooters and finishers. And defensively they are built to give USA fits. So much length and quickness.

[limbo]

France always has these blackouts on offense where they completely capitulate. It happens pretty much every event and it happened again in the very first game in this tournament vs. Germany. They built up a ridiculous lead in the 1st quarter by playing smothering defense and then proceeded to get ice cold offensively and resorted to Fournier/De Colo iso ball and almost lost the game. Their defense is consistently top tier, but i don't trust them to have the answers offensively against good defenses, not enough options and consistency there.

I have my doubts about Greece too. Who on that team can shoot outside of Sloukas? They severely lack shooting in all positions. Calathes is one of the worst shooters in Europe and he plays alongside Giannis which should compound that problem against great defenses. They're weak at the Guard spots, their best players outside Giannis are all Big C/F's Bourousis, Printezis, Papapetrou... all kind of old and unathletic.

I think the gameplan against Greece is just pack the paint and force their primary ballhandlers (Calathes, Giannis) to beat you from outside. If you are the US, here is where you can push the pace and take advantage of high intensity. Honestly, if Greece didn't have one of the best players in the World in Giannis, i would probably have them lower than Turkey, Italy... most likely even Argentina, Brazil and Germany.

[Slartibartfast]

France always has these blackouts on offense where they completely capitulate. It happens pretty much every event and it happened again in the very first game in this tournament vs. Germany. They built up a ridiculous lead in the 1st quarter by playing smothering defense and then proceeded to get ice cold offensively and resorted to Fournier/De Colo iso ball and almost lost the game. Their defense is consistently top tier, but i don't trust them to have the answers offensively against good defenses, not enough options and consistency there.

I have my doubts about Greece too. Who on that team can shoot outside of Sloukas? They severely lack shooting in all positions. Calathes is one of the worst shooters in Europe and he plays alongside Giannis which should compound that problem against great defenses. They're weak at the Guard spots, their best players outside Giannis are all Big C/F's Bourousis, Printezis, Papapetrou... all kind of old and unathletic.

I think the gameplan against Greece is just pack the paint and force their primary ballhandlers (Calathes, Giannis) to beat you from outside. If you are the US, here is where you can push the pace and take advantage of high intensity. Honestly, if Greece didn't have one of the best players in the World in Giannis, i would probably have them lower than Turkey, Italy... most likely even Argentina, Brazil and Germany.

I like that Greece's bigs can shoot. Calathes I think is streaky enough to command some respect. I just like the way they pass and move as a team and that Giannis' physical advantages at both ends gives them knockout punch ability.

[Clyde Frazier]

"Detroit Pistons" took place of better team based on purpose of "inclusion"

What?

[Johnny Firpo]

Everyone else isn’t NBA worthy.

That's definitely not true. Both of their big guards could play in the NBA and be rotation guys on playoff teams.

[Jstock12]

I think Serbia has the best TEAM, and is quite close to the overall talent of the US. I think for both Serbia and the USA, not making the finals would be a complete disaster/failure.

My tiers:
Tier 1 - Serbia, USA
Tier 2 - Greece, France, Australia (possibly Spain too)
Tier 3 - Spain, Italy, Canada, Lithuania, Argentina, Brazil
Tier 4 - Turkey, Russia, Poland

[Sphynx]

Interesting that the team to break USA’s streak recently is fairly underrated in this thread.

Could win it on their day imo, Ingles could smoke any team in FIBA ball if he’s on.

Would of loved to have seen them with Simmons, Bolden, Exum and young Josh Green if he didn’t do his shoulder at the hoop summit.

Jock Landale looks a real talent.

[gundysmullet]

That's the basis of world competition. It's an opportunity to let regions feel involved.

It's not stupid, one could argue that the USA could field 20 teams, why don't they just do that? Maybe even more, possibly one for each state. I'm sure that probably sounds stupid to you.

Nonsense. It is the basis for the “entitlement” mentality and “everyone gets a participation trophy” mentality. Competition should be based on merit, and merit alone. And USA cannot field, 20 teams, because it is not 20 countries, it is one country. I’m sorry, but your points are awful.

Let's take this argument to its logical conclusion. There's no reason to have the tournament to begin with because all the best players play in the NBA already. The World Cup is a waste of time. Euroleague is a waste of time. NCAA is a waste of time. The Olympics are a waste of time. Why should anyone bother to participate? If you don't like it, don't watch.

That doesn’t make any sense at all, you’re comparing national teams to leagues. I’m not following what point you were trying to make at all.

[Pachinko_]

France always has these blackouts on offense where they completely capitulate. It happens pretty much every event and it happened again in the very first game in this tournament vs. Germany. They built up a ridiculous lead in the 1st quarter by playing smothering defense and then proceeded to get ice cold offensively and resorted to Fournier/De Colo iso ball and almost lost the game. Their defense is consistently top tier, but i don't trust them to have the answers offensively against good defenses, not enough options and consistency there.

I have my doubts about Greece too. Who on that team can shoot outside of Sloukas? They severely lack shooting in all positions. Calathes is one of the worst shooters in Europe and he plays alongside Giannis which should compound that problem against great defenses. They're weak at the Guard spots, their best players outside Giannis are all Big C/F's Bourousis, Printezis, Papapetrou... all kind of old and unathletic.

I think the gameplan against Greece is just pack the paint and force their primary ballhandlers (Calathes, Giannis) to beat you from outside. If you are the US, here is where you can push the pace and take advantage of high intensity. Honestly, if Greece didn't have one of the best players in the World in Giannis, i would probably have them lower than Turkey, Italy... most likely even Argentina, Brazil and Germany.

I like that Greece's bigs can shoot. Calathes I think is streaky enough to command some respect. I just like the way they pass and move as a team and that Giannis' physical advantages at both ends gives them knockout punch ability.

None of the Greeks except Sloukas can shoot reliably, however all of them can have a random good shooting night, even Giannis. It really depends on the night, if they make a few shots early it's an easy W (like the game against Montenegro), but be prepared for other games that they'll be launching brick after brick.

Single elimination games, anything can happen.

[Pachinko_]

By the way I don't know if it's the games themselves or I'm just thirsty for basketball but I'm really enjoying the WC so far
Duration of the game and intensity levels are just right for me

[mediocrityrules]

By the way I don't know if it's the games themselves or I'm just thirsty for basketball but I'm really enjoying the WC so far
Duration of the game and intensity levels are just right for me

Like myself and probably many others, it's just great to be having meaningful basketball at this time of year. I'm enjoying it much more than i thought i would as well.

[Dez]

Surprised the Philippines players didn't start throwing chairs because they were getting smashed.

[LeMasta]

damn... I just realized Slovenia isn't in the tournament. Surely they're better than many of the teams I've seen so far. How do these qualifications work...

[Slartibartfast]

I think Serbia has the best TEAM, and is quite close to the overall talent of the US. I think for both Serbia and the USA, not making the finals would be a complete disaster/failure.

My tiers:
Tier 1 - Serbia, USA
Tier 2 - Greece, France, Australia (possibly Spain too)
Tier 3 - Spain, Italy, Canada, Lithuania, Argentina, Brazil
Tier 4 - Turkey, Russia, Poland

That list looks good to me, though I'd put Canada and Argentina down with Turkey and carve out a tier 5 for Montenegro, Russia, Poland, Nigeria, Czech Republic and China.

[Slartibartfast]

I think Serbia has the best TEAM, and is quite close to the overall talent of the US. I think for both Serbia and the USA, not making the finals would be a complete disaster/failure.

My tiers:
Tier 1 - Serbia, USA
Tier 2 - Greece, France, Australia (possibly Spain too)
Tier 3 - Spain, Italy, Canada, Lithuania, Argentina, Brazil
Tier 4 - Turkey, Russia, Poland

That list looks good to me, though I'd put Canada and Argentina down with Turkey and carve out a tier 5 for Montenegro, Russia, Poland, Nigeria, Czech Republic and China.

Oh and Germany would belong in tier 3 too.

[Pachinko_]

I think Teodosic not playing worked out well for Serbia, Micic is in top form and needed the minutes.