76ers back to fining Ben Simmons

[Snotbubbles]

Can NBA Players go out on FMLA?

If so, and his mental illness is this debilitating, why hasn't he?

My guess is because either they can't or he wouldn't be getting the full value of his contract. So I kind of feel like the Sixers have a point here.

When you go out on FMLA you don't get paid.

[Tacoma]

Dunno why it's so controversial that an organization paying you $30 million dollars a year would be interested in documentation/info to verify the severity of your health issues if you want them to keep paying you.

Him giving them some names of NBPA professionals means virtually nothing. Any player could go see a NBPA professional tomorrow. Burden is on Simmons to provide documentation to the Sixers he is mentally not ready to play. Brief doctors note from a neutral party with very broad/general info, that's all he has to do.

Seriously. It’s pretty insane the people who think the employer literally should have zero say/oversight here.

One of my staff went on medical leave and according to HR, all that he needed was a medical note signed by a qualified doctor was sufficient proof (it becomes a privacy rights issue). The presumption is a qualified and certified medical doctor has gone through the necessary steps to come to a diagnosis and can be trusted.

Maybe the CBA isn't so clean cut on medical leave. Kawhi didn't consult nor listened to the Spurs medical staff and hired his own medical team keeping Spurs in the dark and he got paid. I think whether Simmons should be paid will come down to whether he has a valid medical reason and how much he must reveal to the Sixers. It clearly is not clean cut and will be argued in the courts.

[Tomjas]

Just deal him to LA and his mental health issues will magically go away. Any other location such as Boston or Minnesota and he's not reporting.

It’s been reported multiple times that Ben Simmons would take a trade to any team from Minnesota to Cleveland or Sacramento simply to get out of Philly

It’s been reported multiple times that he wanted to be traded to a Cali team. When it became clear that wasn’t going to happen it was leaked that he was open to play in other markets.

Reported by ONE non-credible source

[YamiRain]

My mans going back to the 76'ers team therapists now

[payton2kemp]

My mans going back to the 76'ers team therapists now

lol hes just milking it now.

[bigbreakfast]

Let's be realistic here, we're all part of the peanut gallery making semi-informed opinions on this case, but Simmons specifically has always had issues with his character and commitment, preNBA, collegiate and now. He has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique. All of a sudden he has mental health issues and can't play? Most of the arguments in this thread were made under the assumption that he has real, pathological mental health issues when the sum of the facts would suggest that is not the case. If anything, crying wolf with mental health is doing serious disservice to those with real mental health issues.

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

[gmoney411]

Let's be realistic here, we're all part of the peanut gallery making semi-informed opinions on this case, but Simmons specifically has always had issues with his character and commitment, preNBA, collegiate and now. He has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique. All of a sudden he has mental health issues and can't play? Most of the arguments in this thread were made under the assumption that he has real, pathological mental health issues when the sum of the facts would suggest that is not the case. If anything, crying wolf with mental health is doing serious disservice to those with real mental health issues.

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

How would you define being soft?

[sikma42]

Let's be realistic here, we're all part of the peanut gallery making semi-informed opinions on this case, but Simmons specifically has always had issues with his character and commitment, preNBA, collegiate and now. He has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique. All of a sudden he has mental health issues and can't play? Most of the arguments in this thread were made under the assumption that he has real, pathological mental health issues when the sum of the facts would suggest that is not the case. If anything, crying wolf with mental health is doing serious disservice to those with real mental health issues.

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

Please let us know what mental illness really is?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Ca]

Can NBA Players go out on FMLA?

If so, and his mental illness is this debilitating, why hasn't he?

My guess is because either they can't or he wouldn't be getting the full value of his contract. So I kind of feel like the Sixers have a point here.

When you go out on FMLA you don't get paid.

Aren't you covered by disability?

I'm not sure about any of this which is why I asked.

[kombayn]

Just trade him at this point. Take a deal. Something that helps the team. Ben Simmons nuked his trade value. Now it's posturing from a front office.

[Nuntius]

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness?

For us, random fans on the internet? For us, the people that lack the required medical knowledge? There isn't a threshold for us. We, quite simply, should refrain from making any untrained assumptions when it comes to mental health. We lack the knowledge and we shouldn't be playing doctor over the internet.

Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

1) I had no idea that the 76ers had offered Ben those services in the past. Can I have a link that describes what happened back then that prompted this?

2) That said, people suffering from mental issues refusing help isn't all that uncommon. It happens quite often and it's why you cannot really force someone to seek that kind of help. They will only be able to be helped if they're themselves receptive of that help.

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

Sharing our opinion is fine. Making any surefire declarations about someone else's mental health without having any sort of data to go off or the necessary training to interpret that data is not fine at all, imo.

[youngcrev]

Let's be realistic here, we're all part of the peanut gallery making semi-informed opinions on this case, but Simmons specifically has always had issues with his character and commitment, preNBA, collegiate and now. He has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique. All of a sudden he has mental health issues and can't play? Most of the arguments in this thread were made under the assumption that he has real, pathological mental health issues when the sum of the facts would suggest that is not the case. If anything, crying wolf with mental health is doing serious disservice to those with real mental health issues.

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

There isn't a threshold, as those terms don't really belong in the same conversation.

I also don't think that illness is the right word.

If there's going to be a genuine conversation about his mental health, the threshold to be discussed is at what level do his issues have to be to excuse him from going to work.

Like, I have no doubt that he's dealing with a ton of anxiety right now with all that's been going on both in his career and personal life in the past year.

But based on the sequence of events, I think it's more than fair to question whether that anxiety is actually debilitating enough that he should be excused from his professional responsibility, or whether this is more of a tactic being used to get what he wants.

[dsg2003mach1]

Can NBA Players go out on FMLA?

If so, and his mental illness is this debilitating, why hasn't he?

My guess is because either they can't or he wouldn't be getting the full value of his contract. So I kind of feel like the Sixers have a point here.

When you go out on FMLA you don't get paid.

Aren't you covered by disability?

I'm not sure about any of this which is why I asked.

FMLA is a federal program that protects your job for up to 12 weeks, employer doesn't have to pay you. There is no federally mandated disability leave, and likely none at the state level (especially in PA), that covers this that would pay him. He would have to have some other insurance policy he's paying for.

That being said, even programs like FMLA require certain updates from the employee on a pre-determined schedule and if it's not followed you can be fired. I can't imagine the CBA not having similar terms somewhere, although instead of being fired you don't get paid and/or fined. It's the same with a worker's comp injury - if you miss or refuse treatment they stop paying and each appointment generates an update for the employer and WC carrier.

I fully believe Simmons should have the right to seek the therapist(s) that he feels comfortable with but I'm sure the CBA requires some level of reporting back to the team to verify he is receiving treatment and following the schedule set up for him.

[Ca]

When you go out on FMLA you don't get paid.

Aren't you covered by disability?

I'm not sure about any of this which is why I asked.

FMLA is a federal program that protects your job for up to 12 weeks, employer doesn't have to pay you. There is no federally mandated disability leave, and likely none at the state level (especially in PA), that covers this that would pay him. He would have to have some other insurance policy he's paying for.

That being said, even programs like FMLA require certain updates from the employee on a pre-determined schedule and if it's not followed you can be fired. I can't imagine the CBA not having similar terms somewhere, although instead of being fired you don't get paid and/or fined. It's the same with a worker's comp injury - if you miss or refuse treatment they stop paying and each appointment generates an update for the employer and WC carrier.

I fully believe Simmons should have the right to seek the therapist(s) that he feels comfortable with but I'm sure the CBA requires some level of reporting back to the team to verify he is receiving treatment and following the schedule set up for him.

Thanks for the clarification.

He is in a Union. You'd think they'd have something set up.

[dsg2003mach1]

Aren't you covered by disability?

I'm not sure about any of this which is why I asked.

FMLA is a federal program that protects your job for up to 12 weeks, employer doesn't have to pay you. There is no federally mandated disability leave, and likely none at the state level (especially in PA), that covers this that would pay him. He would have to have some other insurance policy he's paying for.

That being said, even programs like FMLA require certain updates from the employee on a pre-determined schedule and if it's not followed you can be fired. I can't imagine the CBA not having similar terms somewhere, although instead of being fired you don't get paid and/or fined. It's the same with a worker's comp injury - if you miss or refuse treatment they stop paying and each appointment generates an update for the employer and WC carrier.

I fully believe Simmons should have the right to seek the therapist(s) that he feels comfortable with but I'm sure the CBA requires some level of reporting back to the team to verify he is receiving treatment and following the schedule set up for him.

Thanks for the clarification.

He is in a Union. You'd think they'd have something set up.

no idea what's in the CBA nor do I care to look. From the outside - it looks like in normal circumstances the player would get paid while dealing with an injury/mental health issue so long as you're following some set of guidelines. If a player was physically hurt and was skipping appointments, not going through the rehab process etc... I would imagine they would end up being fined as well, I just can't recall that happening.

Simmons entitled ass seems to think he can do/not do whatever he wants and that's why he's having problems. Funny how every time they start taking money out of his pocket he can start acting right.

[bigbreakfast]

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

Please let us know what mental illness really is?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

there's a whole book and a specialty in medicine for it. im willing to bet google has it.

[bigbreakfast]

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

There isn't a threshold, as those terms don't really belong in the same conversation.

I also don't think that illness is the right word.

If there's going to be a genuine conversation about his mental health, the threshold to be discussed is at what level do his issues have to be to excuse him from going to work.

Like, I have no doubt that he's dealing with a ton of anxiety right now with all that's been going on both in his career and personal life in the past year.

But based on the sequence of events, I think it's more than fair to question whether that anxiety is actually debilitating enough that he should be excused from his professional responsibility, or whether this is more of a tactic being used to get what he wants.

we'd have a better idea of his specific mental disorder(s) and whether or not they are truly debilitating or if they're being used as a tactic if he'd agree to meet w/ team psychiatrists or has his psychiatrists say that. he'd also start getting paid. but he hasn't so what does that smell like to u?

[bigbreakfast]

If what you're saying about Simmons is true (that he has always shrunk away from shouldering responsibility and facing critique) then it's definitely not all of a sudden. In fact, someone could easily claim that these were the results of an underlying mental health condition that was never diagnosed or treated.

Obviously, I'm not a doctor and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about such diagnoses but I also cannot see how what you said can be used as an argument against Simmons' potentially having a mental health condition.

What is the threshold for us to reasonably someone is just soft versus actually having mental illness? Are we just going to explain all character flaws as potentially having mental illness? Simmons has had plenty of opportunities to seek out help and 76ers have offered those services in the past which he refused. All of a sudden he stops getting paid and starts getting fined he's claiming mental illness?

I suppose if you want to argue that he theoretically has an underlying illness, sure, no one here knows for sure. We're just all shooting from the peanut gallery and offering our non professional, often biased opinion. Do I think he likely has one? Nope. Do I think people here are throwing out mental illness like a hash tag without really knowing what it is and cheapening the term? Yes absolutely.

How would you define being soft?

ben simmons.

[Quattro]

People actually think he’s suffering from mental health issues. Wow.

I guess it’s just a coincidence that he started suffering from these issues as soon as he reported to the team to collect his paycheque.
Just like I’m sure it will be a coincidence that he will be “cured” the day after he is traded.

[Spens1]

Isn't he going to a NBAPA approved medical professional.

I don't think the 76ers can do anything. You're already winning without him, just get some pieces to finish off the squad and deal him to be honest.