2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[Madhouse]

Read on Twitter

Interesting cutoff on the assists.

I wonder what that list looks like with these numbers since the all-star break;

22+ppg(22.3)
7+rpg(7.5)
6+apg(6.0)

I know of at least one, Cade Cunningham.

Arbitrary number list's are made to support some players over other players.

I remember when Andre Drummond was putting up actually absurd numbers (20ppg 20rpg 2bpg) for a big stretch of games, and an exact graphic like this was used to proclaim it, and to compare him to some pretty lofty players.

I think everyone remembers this funny Thad Young graphic with weird numbers to fit the agenda comparing him to all time greats.

[Tripod]

Read on Twitter

Interesting cutoff on the assists.

I wonder what that list looks like with these numbers since the all-star break;

22+ppg(22.3)
7+rpg(7.5)
6+apg(6.0)

I know of at least one, Cade Cunningham.

Arbitrary number list's are made to support some players over other players.

I remember when Andre Drummond was putting up actually absurd numbers (20ppg 20rpg 2bpg) for a big stretch of games, and an exact graphic like this was used to proclaim it, and to compare him to some pretty lofty players.

Still, when you are in that company while being the 4th option on offense on your team and get the least amount of plays run for you out of your starters, it shows what he is capable of.

[PhilBlackson]

Read on Twitter

Interesting cutoff on the assists.

I wonder what that list looks like with these numbers since the all-star break;

22+ppg(22.3)
7+rpg(7.5)
6+apg(6.0)

I know of at least one, Cade Cunningham.

Arbitrary number list's are made to support some players over other players.

I remember when Andre Drummond was putting up actually absurd numbers (20ppg 20rpg 2bpg) for a big stretch of games, and an exact graphic like this was used to proclaim it, and to compare him to some pretty lofty players.

I'm just impressed it's this close despite the huge difference in USAGE lol I can only imagine what beastly numbers Scottie would do if it were comparable...

But hey it's always easy to discredit...we understand Cade is doing his thing too and maybe we dont need you need to discredit one to praise another, just sayin'

[The Moose]

The best part for me is that I like how Cade/Barnes/Mobley play the game. They are all fun to watch, high IQ players that play both ends of the court.
One guard, one wing, one big, and all should be near the top of their respective position in the future

[Mr Peanut]

And I believe his shooting mechanics make it seem likely that he is going to be at least a 45% FG 36% 3PT type shooter in the future, with the potential to be even better depending on his growth.

I actually think you are selling him short on potential. 45/36 would be a disappointing outcome, don't you think?

I think 45/36 is his floor. Ideally closer to 50/40 but that won't happen unless the Pistons bring in other offensive options to take some pressure off/draw attention away from Cade.

[The Moose]

Read on Twitter

Interesting cutoff on the assists.

I wonder what that list looks like with these numbers since the all-star break;

22+ppg(22.3)
7+rpg(7.5)
6+apg(6.0)

I know of at least one, Cade Cunningham.

Arbitrary number list's are made to support some players over other players.

I remember when Andre Drummond was putting up actually absurd numbers (20ppg 20rpg 2bpg) for a big stretch of games, and an exact graphic like this was used to proclaim it, and to compare him to some pretty lofty players.

just for fun

only players averaging 20/7/6 post allstar

[TheLand13]

and lets not forget most of his points are assisted by Garland.

But I guess, someone always needs to point out that 'their' guy is so much better than everyone else when the other 2 are totally awesome as well.

No one's saying the other two aren't awesome lol and I never even mentioned anyone else in the post, which was specifically in response to something about Mobley. But since you bring it up, the fact of the matter though is that this is a thread where discussions are meant to be had comparing the prospects for ROTY honors. And Mobley has been the clear ROTY. If the situations were reversed and Raps fans were the ones who had Mobley playing the way he has, I can only imagine how unbearable the fanbase would be in making sure everyone knew it.

Right now, Mobley ranges from a -400 to a -1000 favorite on betting sites for ROTY. No other guys are even better than +400. So clearly this isn't just coming out of thin air. Most people outside of Detroit and Toronto fans think Mobley is the ROTY.

There is nothing clear about. His volume stats are not better, his advanced stats are not better. Hell, his on/off is also negative. Mobley is the clear favorite but he shouldn't be. The media made up their minds a long time ago that Mobley would be ROY regardless how everyone else would perform. In fact Barnes has been the most impactful rookie by a mile since the Allstar break.

While I shouldn't be surprised to see a Raptors fan complaining, I think it's hilarious to see that there are still people trying to claim that Mobley shouldn't be the favorite, especially at this point.

[Madhouse]

No one's saying the other two aren't awesome lol and I never even mentioned anyone else in the post, which was specifically in response to something about Mobley. But since you bring it up, the fact of the matter though is that this is a thread where discussions are meant to be had comparing the prospects for ROTY honors. And Mobley has been the clear ROTY. If the situations were reversed and Raps fans were the ones who had Mobley playing the way he has, I can only imagine how unbearable the fanbase would be in making sure everyone knew it.

Right now, Mobley ranges from a -400 to a -1000 favorite on betting sites for ROTY. No other guys are even better than +400. So clearly this isn't just coming out of thin air. Most people outside of Detroit and Toronto fans think Mobley is the ROTY.

There is nothing clear about. His volume stats are not better, his advanced stats are not better. Hell, his on/off is also negative. Mobley is the clear favorite but he shouldn't be. The media made up their minds a long time ago that Mobley would be ROY regardless how everyone else would perform. In fact Barnes has been the most impactful rookie by a mile since the Allstar break.

While I shouldn't be surprised to see a Raptors fan complaining, I think it's hilarious to see that there are still people trying to claim that Mobley shouldn't be the favorite, especially at this point.

There is no objective reasoning for it. Anything else is just narrative.

It should be an extremely tight 3-way race. That's what we are seeing on the court.

[FelixD]

Best draft in NBA history? There’s a real possibility.

Its not even better than the 2018 draft (the most recent great draft). That draft have two superstars, a bunch of stars too and was also deep of useful players

[JackTalkThai]

Best draft in NBA history? There’s a real possibility.

Its not even better than the 2018 draft (the most recent great draft). That draft have two superstars, a bunch of stars too and was also deep of useful players

In a couple of years when this draft produces three or four superstars and several other mainstay starters, the comp will look very different.

If you compared the rookie seasons of the 2018 draft and the 2021 draft…the latter is having the much better season, and quite frankly, it’s not even close.

[FelixD]

Best draft in NBA history? There’s a real possibility.

Its not even better than the 2018 draft (the most recent great draft). That draft have two superstars, a bunch of stars too and was also deep of useful players

In a couple of years when this draft produces three or four superstars and several other mainstay starters, the comp will look very different.

If you compared the rookie seasons of the 2018 draft and the 2021 draft…the latter is having the much better season, and quite frankly, it’s not even close.

How? Both Doncic and Trae looked generational talents in their rookie years. No one in this draft looks generational as it is now. Maybe Mobley for his defensive upside, but even then it is a reach.

[DG88]

Honestly, I remember telling the Raptors forum that the 2021 was the draft to tank for. I couldn't have been more right and we lucked out and moved into the top 4 to select Scottie Barnes.

Overall Cade, Mobley and Barnes have been sensational talents that the Pistons, Cavaliers and Raptors should be ecstatic about. These 3 will be facing each other in playoff battles in the future and will elevate the Eastern conference in the future. I think all 3 are deserving of ROTY.

[JackTalkThai]

Its not even better than the 2018 draft (the most recent great draft). That draft have two superstars, a bunch of stars too and was also deep of useful players

In a couple of years when this draft produces three or four superstars and several other mainstay starters, the comp will look very different.

If you compared the rookie seasons of the 2018 draft and the 2021 draft…the latter is having the much better season, and quite frankly, it’s not even close.

How? Both Doncic and Trae looked generational talents in their rookie years. No one in this draft looks generational as it is now. Maybe Mobley for his defensive upside, but even then it is a reach.

Doncic is the clear #1 of both classes…but Cunningham’s numbers are very comparable to Young’s as a rookie and the consensus on this board is that Barnes and Mobley are having better seasons than Cade.

Cunningham:
17 ppg
6.0 rpg
5.3 apg
41% FG
32% 3pt
1.1 Steals
0.6 Blocks
3.5 TO’s

Young:
19 ppg
3.7 rpg
8.1 apg
42% FG
32% 3pt
0.9 Steals
0.2 Blocks
3.8 TO’s

[NYPiston]

Read on Twitter

I'm just impressed it's this close despite the huge difference in USAGE lol I can only imagine what beastly numbers Scottie would do if it were comparable...

But hey it's always easy to discredit...we understand Cade is doing his thing too and maybe we dont need you need to discredit one to praise another, just sayin'

I keep seeing this "usage" argument being used to discredit Cade yet no mention of him being THE primary option on his team that the defense game plans for every game, throwing double teams and their best defenders at him night after night. It's a much different ballgame, or burden to use a better term, when you're the main facilitator on a team and the main guy the defense keys on so I doubt the numbers would be more "beastly" if Barnes was THE guy on the Pistons.

In any event, all this arguing and dick measuring to say "my guy is better than yours just because" is pointless because all 3 are worthy of ROY and have good arguments. There is no clear frontrunner despite the homerism in this thread and to be objective, some of the homerism on the Pistons board and media declaring Cade to be "BY FAR" the ROTY.

[Madhouse]

I keep seeing this "usage" argument being used to discredit Cade yet no mention of him being THE primary option on his team that the defense game plans for every game, throwing double teams and their best defenders at him night after night. It's a much different ballgame, or burden to use a better term, when you're the main facilitator on a team and the main guy the defense keys on so I doubt the numbers would be more "beastly" if Barnes was THE guy on the Pistons.

In any event, all this arguing and dick measuring to say "my guy is better than yours just because" is pointless because all 3 are worthy of ROY and have good arguments. There is no clear frontrunner despite the homerism in this thread and to be objective, some of the homerism on the Pistons board and media declaring Cade to be "BY FAR" the ROTY.

Reasonable post.

[kwajo]

Rookie of the year is kind of a silly award anyway, we've had a few duds in the past and it creates needless competition during a season that is largely about young players learning and finding opportunities for themselves. I'm genuinely excited about seeing where this rookie group goes, I think they could be a top-5 draft class if they all stay injury free, and that's great for a league with a lot of superstars who are ageing, and great for the smaller market teams (CLE, DET, OKC, TOR, IND, etc.) that a lot of these guys are playing for. I also love that a number of them are very good defensively, that's a very good omen for the future of the league.

[zeebneeb]

Read on Twitter

Interesting cutoff on the assists.

I wonder what that list looks like with these numbers since the all-star break;

22+ppg(22.3)
7+rpg(7.5)
6+apg(6.0)

I know of at least one, Cade Cunningham.

Arbitrary number list's are made to support some players over other players.

I remember when Andre Drummond was putting up actually absurd numbers (20ppg 20rpg 2bpg) for a big stretch of games, and an exact graphic like this was used to proclaim it, and to compare him to some pretty lofty players.

I'm just impressed it's this close despite the huge difference in USAGE lol I can only imagine what beastly numbers Scottie would do if it were comparable...

But hey it's always easy to discredit...we understand Cade is doing his thing too and maybe we dont need you need to discredit one to praise another, just sayin'

I'm sorry if you read my post that way, as I did not mean it in that sense. This rookie class is amazing so far.

I meant to say watch out for Arbitrary "only these players have done this..." style of comparisons, as I've been burnt in the past as I offered up Drummond as a reminder. Thats how he got that max contract from Detroit. *sigh*

Whats more important then just raw stats, is actually watching the players, play.

All I was getting at.

I would be perfectly fine if any of Mobley/Barnes/Cade landed the hardware. It's a very difficult decision this year, and I feel its going to come down to these last 10-15 games. Cade is on an amazing run right now for the past 11 games, and has scored 20+ in the past 7 straight. Mobley just dropped 30. Barnes took it to James, and has had a great run since the all-star break.

It's gonna be a tough decision.

[zshawn10]

Rookie of the year is kind of a silly award anyway, we've had a few duds in the past and it creates needless competition during a season that is largely about young players learning and finding opportunities for themselves. I'm genuinely excited about seeing where this rookie group goes, I think they could be a top-5 draft class if they all stay injury free, and that's great for a league with a lot of superstars who are ageing, and great for the smaller market teams (CLE, DET, OKC, TOR, IND, etc.) that a lot of these guys are playing for. I also love that a number of them are very good defensively, that's a very good omen for the future of the league.

I mean Tyreke Evans won the award and he wasn't the best guy in his draft at all. What are they arguing about this award for lol?

[zshawn10]

30
29
26
24
23
22
22
22

5 games over 22 actually and 3 more at exactly 22. Scoring is also the weakest part of Mobley's game so hyper focusing is missing the forest for the trees when it comes to Mobley as an overall package.

Since he played center, when Allen went down.

I'm aware that his game is much more than scoring, I'm just pointing out that he has produced one efficient 30 point game, not efficient 30 game"s" and that he isn't "far and away" better than all the other rookies.

and lets not forget most of his points are assisted by Garland.

But I guess, someone always needs to point out that 'their' guy is so much better than everyone else when the other 2 are totally awesome as well.

Mobley walked into one of the best situations for a rookie when he got drafted by Cleveland; I mean he's literally playing with two all-stars lol.

[mrmsix6]

Mobley walked into one of the best situations for a rookie when he got drafted by Cleveland; I mean he's literally playing with two all-stars lol.

Ah yes, just as everyone predicted. The Cavs are suddenly a competitive playoff team and Garland and Allen are first-time all stars. Cleveland was obviously a fantastic situation for Mobley, what with their over/under of 46.5 wins for the year.



Wait, what's that you say? Their over/under wins was actually 26.5? They were supposed to be a bottom 5 team in the league?

Hmm, what changed?