Shams: Grizzlies trade Desmond Bane to Magic for KCP, Cole Anthony, 4 1sts, 1 Pick Swap...

[MagicMadness]

Here is a list of every player the Magic have ever drafted with a first round pick that was #15 or later:

Stanley Roberts (1991)
Geert Hammink
Brooks Thompson
David Vaughn
Brian Evans
Johnny Taylor
Matt Harpring
Steven Hunter
Jeryl Sasser
Curtis Borchardt
Reece Gaines
Courtney Lee
Daniel Orton
Andrew Nicholson
Anzejs Pasecniks
Chuma Okeke
Cole Anthony (2020)

So the best late first round picks the Magic have EVER selected were probably...Courtney Lee and Cole Anthony. Yikes.

Yeah, give me Bane...

The our scouting department is trash so who cares about first round picks is a brain dead argument.

That's not the argument.

Non-lottery picks are typically the types of players you're going to see on the list above. Every once in a blue moon, you hit and get a guy like Desmond Bane. We could wait over the next 5 years and hope one of the four picks we traded turns into a young Desmond Bane that we can develop, or we can just...have him now. Entering his prime. On a playoff team who's core is all under 25 years old.

First round picks are great for acquiring talent. Or for dumping bad contracts. We just did both. And we still have a first in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

Anyone can call it an overpay, and that's fine. The argument can definitely be made. But the argument should be viewed more through a 'tradeable asset' lens than a 'giving up on future talent' lens. Because outside the lottery, rarely do any players become more than a rotational piece.

[morosis]

sorry if already discussed. i was out last week and want to check my thinking.

the handful of times I watched ORL last year, i thought their biggest issue was people playing outside of their roles due to the lack of a PG, or really any kind of facilitator to structure their offense and get people the ball in good situations. seemed like PB was having to do a lot of that. im sure you guys have already talked about how they needed perimeter shooting, and Bane addresses that. but i guess in my mind getting a facilitator to simplify PB's role and give their offense some reliable path in half court sets was even more important. am i totally off base? if not, is there a way for them to get there with these assets now gone for Bane? or are we still talking about the half court being "get the ball to PB somehow and see what happens"?

edit: want to add that I personally want ORL to be good. and i think they are a good PG away from being quite dangerous

[Rainwater]

Its quite funny to discredit the value of late first round picks while trading for someone who got picked at the end of the 1st round.

How many late first round picks do you think actually turn out to be as good as Banes? By your logic you might as well not trade any second-round draft picks because they can turn out to be Joker. Failure of this trade is dependent on numbers and chance, and I like the magic chances they will be fine.

Also, no offense intended to the Magic, but they're historically not that great at drafting. So those picks in their hands probably wouldn't turn into much. Memphis is good at drafting, and they may have a better shot at finding gems.

Yeah, typically if it’s not the first pick, which most team can’t screw up, the Magic haven’t had much luck. Although recently the Magic have hit gold with Suggs and Franz.

[mkot]

I don't think trading them for someone who is borderline All-star level is wise, and if you disagree that's fine, we can only wait and see what happens either way, but at least recognize the future 1sts as what they are.

Totally agreed.

But they have plenty and would have no room for more. Plus a trade like that is a vibe and culture swift to the team that could spark growth on their young talents next season. If they make a deep run in the next post season that's all they need for their core players. It's time to test if the players they committed to build around are made up of the right stuff.

[Snotbubbles]

Here is a list of every player the Magic have ever drafted with a first round pick that was #15 or later:

Stanley Roberts (1991)
Geert Hammink
Brooks Thompson
David Vaughn
Brian Evans
Johnny Taylor
Matt Harpring
Steven Hunter
Jeryl Sasser
Curtis Borchardt
Reece Gaines
Courtney Lee
Daniel Orton
Andrew Nicholson
Anzejs Pasecniks
Chuma Okeke
Cole Anthony (2020)

So the best late first round picks the Magic have EVER selected were probably...Courtney Lee and Cole Anthony. Yikes.

Yeah, give me Bane...

The our scouting department is trash so who cares about first round picks is a brain dead argument.

That's not the argument.

Non-lottery picks are typically the types of players you're going to see on the list above. Every once in a blue moon, you hit and get a guy like Desmond Bane. We could wait over the next 5 years and hope one of the four picks we traded turns into a young Desmond Bane that we can develop, or we can just...have him now. Entering his prime. On a playoff team who's core is all under 25 years old.

First round picks are great for acquiring talent. Or for dumping bad contracts. We just did both. And we still have a first in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

Anyone can call it an overpay, and that's fine. The argument can definitely be made. But the argument should be viewed more through a 'tradeable asset' lens than a 'giving up on future talent' lens. Because outside the lottery, rarely do any players become more than a rotational piece.

Here's a list of players the Sixers have picked with #15 or later:

Jared McCain
David Roddy
Jaden Springer
Tyrese Maxey
Ty Jerome
Landry Shamet
Maurice Harkess
Nikola Vucevic
Jrue Holiday
Marreese Speights
Daequan Cook
Pettri Koponen
Jiri Welch
Sam Dalembert
Speedy Claxton

I guess if you're the Magic, those are the types of players you find outside the lottery. Other teams however . . .

[Pointgod]

I want to ask realgm, how many top 50 players were available, for essentially nothing. And then of those players you identified as "Top 50" How many could be a positive on a team like the Orlando Magic. That list turns into like... 2 players that were available.

4 firsts is "essentially nothing"?

They gave up nothing in terms of actual player value.
KCP was a negative contract who you’d have to attach a first to in order to move.
Cole Anthony is a guy that gets you a second or 2.

The 16th pick is already locked in. The pick that hurts is the Phoenix pick. The other two picks convey when the Magic core is still locked up. I mean it could be bad but the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year. They still have 3 picks over the next 5 years. I get what you’re saying, it’s a lot of picks to give up but ultimately they could be late picks like we’re seeing with Cleveland, Minnesota, New York.

The other thing is that yes you could wait to hold on for a superstar but that opportunity may not materialize and you’d still have to give up more value on top of the picks which Orlando might believe is too much to give up.

[jehosafats]

Teams throwing around firsts

and then there's what Nico got for Luka lol.

4 first round picks for Desmond Bane is madness

Or maybe the KCP contract stinks that bad and they needed more of a sweetener

[YogurtProducer]

Teams throwing around firsts

and then there's what Nico got for Luka lol.

4 first round picks for Desmond Bane is madness

Or maybe the KCP contract stinks that bad and they needed more of a sweetener

KCP was still a starting 3+D guard. I refuse to believe he had such negative value he required firsts to get rid of.

Just cope by Orlando fans

[JujitsuFlip]

the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), M. Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year.

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

[azcatz11]

the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), M. Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year.

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

BS said this roster is arguably the second or third best in the league next season

[thelead]

the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), M. Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year.

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

I’d personally flip WCJ for a high level bench guard and role with Goga as the starter with Mo and JI as the backup bigs. It would balance the bench.

[MagicMadness]

The our scouting department is trash so who cares about first round picks is a brain dead argument.

That's not the argument.

Non-lottery picks are typically the types of players you're going to see on the list above. Every once in a blue moon, you hit and get a guy like Desmond Bane. We could wait over the next 5 years and hope one of the four picks we traded turns into a young Desmond Bane that we can develop, or we can just...have him now. Entering his prime. On a playoff team who's core is all under 25 years old.

First round picks are great for acquiring talent. Or for dumping bad contracts. We just did both. And we still have a first in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

Anyone can call it an overpay, and that's fine. The argument can definitely be made. But the argument should be viewed more through a 'tradeable asset' lens than a 'giving up on future talent' lens. Because outside the lottery, rarely do any players become more than a rotational piece.

Here's a list of players the Sixers have picked with #15 or later:

Jared McCain
David Roddy
Jaden Springer
Tyrese Maxey
Ty Jerome
Landry Shamet
Maurice Harkess
Nikola Vucevic
Jrue Holiday
Marreese Speights
Daequan Cook
Pettri Koponen
Jiri Welch
Sam Dalembert
Speedy Claxton

I guess if you're the Magic, those are the types of players you find outside the lottery. Other teams however . . .

Nice flex by the Sixers front office, but we're still talking about 3 'Bane level' guys in 25 years...

Again, anyone can call it an overpay. But we gave up a 1 in 4 shot at MAYBE drafting a player of Bane's caliber...for Bane. Going into his prime.

(And got rid of the KCP contract.)

It'll be bad IF none of this works out and the Magic become a lottery team for the next 3-5 years, sure. But even then, we've got 4 young stars/quasi-stars that can be moved...for draft picks.

[JujitsuFlip]

the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), M. Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year.

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

BS said this roster is arguably the second or third best in the league next season

Who said that? lol

Their team is still severely flawed, currently.

They lack an actual point guard anywhere on the entire roster. They have no competent back-up for Franz, Black being the only bench guard is a serious issue, and I would almost say they need Jonathan Isaac insurance too because if he goes down they have no serviceable back-up for Banchero.

They still have all summer to plug these holes though. But as it currently stands, no, they're nowhere near a top 3 roster in the NBA.

I could see a top 3 roster in the Southeast Division, whatever that is worth.

[JujitsuFlip]

the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), M. Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year.

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

I’d personally flip WCJ for a high level bench guard and role with Goga as the starter with Mo and JI as the backup bigs. It would balance the bench.

Cavs would gladly take WCJ off your hands. We do not have a high level bench guard though. We have a plethora of guards, just none that you all probably want/need lol

[mkot]

Here's a list of players the Sixers have picked with #15 or later:

Jared McCain
David Roddy
Jaden Springer
Tyrese Maxey
Ty Jerome
Landry Shamet
Maurice Harkess
Nikola Vucevic
Jrue Holiday
Marreese Speights
Daequan Cook
Pettri Koponen
Jiri Welch
Sam Dalembert
Speedy Claxton

I guess if you're the Magic, those are the types of players you find outside the lottery. Other teams however . . .

That's not the point. The Magic core consists of players under 25, they have no room for more of that, especially late 1st, it's time to contend and let the organization see what they have. If they don't break through for the next 2-3 years then they could exit the era by trading their guys for picks in order to start over.

[Pointgod]

the Magic core is:

23, 24, 24 and 27 years old and they kept Anthony Black (21), Tristan Da Silva (24), Wendell Carter (26), Goga (26), Isaac (28), M. Wagner (27) who can be decent support players plus the have Denver’s pick this year.

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

All those guys are movable. They have about 30 million tied up in 3 Centers and they’ll decline Wagners option and resign him for less. Center by committee is probably the way to go given the new CBA

[manlisten]

"4 first round picks" is too general. The Orlando Magic trading 4 firsts for Bane is different than the Washington Wizards trading 4 firsts for Bane. Why don't people get that . A team missing one or two pieces has less use for those picks and the picks have less value.

[thelead]

Just kinda awful for the Magic that 4 of their 6 'support players' are centers.

I’d personally flip WCJ for a high level bench guard and role with Goga as the starter with Mo and JI as the backup bigs. It would balance the bench.

Cavs would gladly take WCJ off your hands. We do not have a high level bench guard though. We have a plethora of guards, just none that you all probably want/need lol

SNT with Ty Jerome works for me

[basketballRob]

I’d personally flip WCJ for a high level bench guard and role with Goga as the starter with Mo and JI as the backup bigs. It would balance the bench.

Cavs would gladly take WCJ off your hands. We do not have a high level bench guard though. We have a plethora of guards, just none that you all probably want/need lol

SNT with Ty Jerome works for me

The Cavs can't make any sign and trades.

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[phanman]

I have this down as a win-win for both sides.

It's definitely a high price for someone whose never been named an All-Star but given the roster make-up in Orlando, I think its worth the gamble with how many holes he will be able to fill as they build around The Wagners + Banchero. They are going to be able to reap the benefits of him improving his on-ball creation the past few seasons where he averaged 6.2ast in 25 games without Morant last year. They had no cap space to bring in a meaningful guard to bolster the offense and it's not like their front office has been able to nail these late picks as of late. Getting off KCP's contract is huge and it doesn't seem like Anthony was going to be a meaningful building block under Mosley. Best part of it all is that he's signed for 4 more years under the fun max which aligns perfectly with Franz and Paolo.

On Memphis' front, they obviously get all the draft capital to make it worthwhile and that front office has proven to be able to nail some gems late. I also think the biggest bonus is that it opens the door for Wells to assume the starting 2 guard position and get a bigger role on offense next season. KCP should have a bounce back year under Tuomas and Morant as his running mate and it's not a stretch to play at the SF position in a pinch too.