NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[Cliff Levingston]

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport.

Cliff Levingston isn't a legal expert so you may be right on that. Regardless, there's nothing inherently "racist" about having an age limit. The NFL does it too. Cliff Levingston thinks there's real merit behind the rule in improving the product via less wasted draft pics spent on young high school players that don't pan out. For every Kevin Garnett or Kobe there's a whole lot more Ndubi Ebi's and Kwame Browns. Not saying there aren't and will continue to be busts but the ability to scout vs. better competition be it in the NBA or in other professional leagues has value. Cliff Levingston doesn't think that would change regardless of what race the players are predominantly.

It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture. Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

You should be careful in the arguments you conflate together. Who said it was ok to contact LeBron's 10 years old son for college recruitment? Cliff Levingston certainly doesn't think that's something that should be allowed or even encouraged. Cliff Levingston also thinks the NCAA should compensate it's players: certainly the ones that are in the big money sports like basketball and football. Free school is great but not when the "school" part is generally shoved aside for a lot of guys as an excuse to come there and play their sport.

[MotownMadness]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Theft? This isn't a normal job here. These kids have to have enough sense to earn a degree while at college because the odds of landing one of the best jobs in the world were you can make millions and retire in you're 30s is only going to about 1% of these college athletes. You make it sound like every player in the NCAA is suffering from this rule. Like I said 99% of them are there for fun and just doing something they love because they know making the NBA is like hitting the lottery.

[Cliff Levingston]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Dude, how can you really say that this society as a whole is racist when it's the same one that elected a black president two times in a row? A society who's largest percentage of people is white?

[DemoleDemolezan]

Hilarious. You accused certain Asian countries of being racist and weren't suspended. You are attempting to deflect, and even trying to get the discussion shut down. The idea that only white people have ignorant views on race is straw man, and not even clever straw man either. Just stale, recycled, whining.

I have lived in these Asian countries and witnessed the culture first hand. Countries such as Taiwan, Korea, Japan are incredibly homogenous. An unfortunate side effect of this homogeneity is racism. I haven't and never would say that everyone or even the majority of people in those countries are racist, that's absurd, but to say that racism doesn't strongly exist in those cultures is wrong.

And the second part of your message is agreeing with me, no? My whole argument has been that many races and cultures possess racist and discriminatory attitudes.

You are attempting to distract from the topic at hand. No one is stopping you from discussing xenophobia in Asian countries. Its irrelevant to this debate as no one has claimed only white people can be hateful of other groups. Instead of discussing the topic, you are deflecting, distracting and baiting with personal attacks.

I'll say it to both of you in this one post as to save my energy. It's not irrelevant if you actually took the time to read our conversation. I was attempting to prove to him that there is no "standard ignorant white guy response" as racism isn't just confined to white vs. black in America. If you both think that generalizing all white people with respects to their attitudes towards racism, then, cool go ahead. I have nothing else to say to that ignorance.

[Neutral 123]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Dude, how can you really say that this society as a whole is racist when it's the same one that elected a black president two times in a row? A society who's largest percentage of people is white?

Every single measure suggests that racism is still alive and well. Look at Ferguson. Its still there, still systemic. What Obama's presidency shows me is that there is hope. As long as the will is there to change things, people will go along with it. However, racism and its denial are deeply rooted, and it will be difficult to uproot what was a founding tenet of America. With relentless pressure, things can change.

[Neutral 123]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Theft? This isn't a normal job here. These kids have to have enough sense to earn a degree while at college because the odds of landing one of the best jobs in the world were you can make millions and retire in you're 30s is only going to about 1% of these college athletes. You make it sound like every player in the NCAA is suffering from this rule. Like I said 99% of them are there for fun and just doing something they love because they know making the NBA is like hitting the lottery.

Then NCAA game is a huge revenue generator. They should be getting paid and getting an education. It is theft. Legalized theft.

[MotownMadness]

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Dude, how can you really say that this society as a whole is racist when it's the same one that elected a black president two times in a row? A society who's largest percentage of people is white?

Every single measure suggests that racism is still alive and well. Look at Ferguson. Its still there, still systemic. What Obama's presidency shows me is that there is hope. As long as the will is there to change things, people will go along with it. However, racism and its denial are deeply rooted, and it will be difficult to uproot what was a founding tenet of America. With relentless pressure, things can change.

Irrelevant, what does Ferguson have to do with the NBA? You keep on bringing up past events in America to strengthen your racism agenda on the NBA . Is that you Sharpton?

[DemoleDemolezan]

Bill, I know you guys on the far left have owned the issue of racism ever since Scottsboro and I'm truly glad you did and have since, because America truly was a racist hellhole then and I thank the gods -- really -- that there were so many pinkos who were willing to take a stand against the prevailing American consensus, regardless of the why, even if it was ultimately a prong in a campaign to eventually overthrow the economic and political system, because, ****, somebody had to do it, and apart from the socialists there were way too few segments of white America willing to do so, back then.

Bad news: Your side is now, and has been for a few decades, the one doing the most to keep dying and dead racist concepts alive, like Bernie. Not just keep vigil against continued or new racism, which of COURSE must always be done (AHEM), you are literally sustaining and even resurrecting and STRENGTHENING ideas about racial essences, despite however much you declaim your nuanced understanding that race is just an illusion invented by society, you still wind up trading in the same basic blanket assumptions about people's character and circumstances based on NOTHING but their race, ideas that should have died a long time ago. The fact that you yet again are telling me that I will never understand something because of my race...just amazing, amazing hypocrisy at a core philosophical level. Have you ever spent much time pondering the question, "OH MY GOD WHAT IF I'VE BECOME THE ENEMY WITHOUT REALIZING IT?"

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

There is no measure that suggests blacks are above the rules, or have an unfair advantage in society. If you want race baiting, go look at what that scumbag Limbaugh had to say about SAE chant about lynching and excluding blacks. But sure, Sharpton is the problem.

From what I've seen of the women's rights movement, the lgbt movement, nothing short of relentless pressure will effect change. Blacks need a thousand Sharpton's a thousand Jesse Jackson's.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/new-yor ... id/611457/

"Blacks" don't want one Al Sharpton.

And yes this is just one example but it is very indicative of his overall behaviour.
Do you really think the world needs a thousand of this type of person?

[MotownMadness]

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Theft? This isn't a normal job here. These kids have to have enough sense to earn a degree while at college because the odds of landing one of the best jobs in the world were you can make millions and retire in you're 30s is only going to about 1% of these college athletes. You make it sound like every player in the NCAA is suffering from this rule. Like I said 99% of them are there for fun and just doing something they love because they know making the NBA is like hitting the lottery.

Then NCAA game is a huge revenue generator. They should be getting paid and getting an education. It is theft. Legalized theft.

In a sense yes they should be compensated for something. Especially from all the marketing like ads and video games and such with their names and faces. But you should take you're racist crap somewhere else because you are clearly a huge racist yourself against white people with all you're history lessons of America you're trying to spit out in a thread about basketball.

[Cliff Levingston]

Every single measure suggests that racism is still alive and well. Look at Ferguson. Its still there, still systemic. What Obama's presidency shows me is that there is hope. As long as the will is there to change things, people will go along with it. However, racism and its denial are deeply rooted, and it will be difficult to uproot what was a founding tenet of America. With relentless pressure, things can change.

And how would you define "racism?"

[Neutral 123]

Its age discrimination and its illegal. This has already been ruled on. The only reason why its permitted is because the union has agreed to these terms. That's the loophole the NBA is using. As for race, the NBA knows there will be no shortage of media and public support when it comes to limits placed on black people, especially financially. It's not a coincidence that this is only an issue in the 'blackest' sport.

Cliff Levingston isn't a legal expert so you may be right on that. Regardless, there's nothing inherently "racist" about having an age limit. The NFL does it too. Cliff Levingston thinks there's real merit behind the rule in improving the product via less wasted draft pics spent on young high school players that don't pan out. For every Kevin Garnett or Kobe there's a whole lot more Ndubi Ebi's and Kwame Browns. Not saying there aren't and will continue to be busts but the ability to scout vs. better competition be it in the NBA or in other professional leagues has value. Cliff Levingston doesn't think that would change regardless of what race the players are predominantly.

It's also not a coincidence when it comes to having blacks work for free, its appropriate and legal apparently for colleges to contact Lebrun's son at 10 for him to go and make money for others. This is American history, American culture. Its ok to work for nothing but free room and board, and not enough food to not go to bed hungry. This is morally acceptable, financially acceptable in a supposed, capitalist country. How odd, how hypocritical.

You should be careful in the arguments you conflate together. Who said it was ok to contact LeBron's 10 years old son for college recruitment? Cliff Levingston certainly doesn't think that's something that should be allowed or even encouraged. Cliff Levingston also thinks the NCAA should compensate it's players: certainly the ones that are in the big money sports like basketball and football. Free school is great but not when the "school" part is generally shoved aside for a lot of guys as an excuse to come there and play their sport.

I've been over this stuff already so I'll keep it short. The NBA is exploiting a racist society. This is acceptable because the attitude is these blacks need an education and need to wait for their own good before making millions. All the while they will generate millions for mostly white colleges. This is why capitalism can be thrown out the door in a country that supposedly prides itself on it.. racism.

It is ok for colleges to contact 10 year olds. If it wasn't they wouldn't have done it. So what we have is a system where players are being denied millions to play in the NBA, being ushered to play for free in the NCAA, to play an 'amateur' sport, that generates billions and is so desperate for top talent they can and do, contact 10 year olds without penalty. What a joke. What a sham. What a disgrace.

[MotownMadness]

Neutral is clearly a racist, and brings nothing to this debate but racist agenda. Unless you want to get a history lesson from him just put him on ignore.

[Neutral 123]

Dude, how can you really say that this society as a whole is racist when it's the same one that elected a black president two times in a row? A society who's largest percentage of people is white?

Every single measure suggests that racism is still alive and well. Look at Ferguson. Its still there, still systemic. What Obama's presidency shows me is that there is hope. As long as the will is there to change things, people will go along with it. However, racism and its denial are deeply rooted, and it will be difficult to uproot what was a founding tenet of America. With relentless pressure, things can change.

Irrelevant, what does Ferguson have to do with the NBA? You keep on bringing up past events in America to strengthen your racism agenda on the NBA . Is that you Sharpton?

I responded to the idea that racism doesn't exist in America. Of course it does. America has an embarrassing history and present.

[Neutral 123]

Neutral is clearly a racist, and brings nothing to this debate but racist agenda. Unless you want to get a history lesson from him just put him on ignore.

bye bye...

[ALL HAIL]

Ok so someone summarize to me real quick how this is another attack against the black man. That way I don't have to read through 28 pages of white man did this and that. Because right now this just sounds like one of the laziest attempts of the race card I've seen yet.

Let's make a deal. I'll agree to champion the cause of erasing the word "racist" (or "racism") from the English lexicon if you'll agree to do the same for the word "race card".

I'm pretty sure those two buzz words, by themselves, have the power to divide and interrupt any potential for understanding between our varying points of view.

I'm all about understanding and resolution--yeah, I'm still naive enough to believe in that, so if certain words are in OUR way, we should just stop using them.

Isn't that the reason why reasonable people don't use curse words In general conversation and/or debate? Weren't we told that there were "more intelligent" ways to articulate ourselves than by using curse words?

The same can be said of using the words "racist" and "race card". When these words are used, we may as well be cursing each other out ... and I just think we're all so much better than that.

Matter of fact, I know we are.

I pray that people can have the humility and absence of ego to dialogue and share while ALWAYS KNOWING THAT WE COULD, AT ANYTIME, BE WRONG.

If we can't have this type of mutual humility, we will never have a chance at even the most minuscule amount of real understanding ... and shouldn't understanding be the primary reason for communication?

[MotownMadness]

Ok so someone summarize to me real quick how this is another attack against the black man. That way I don't have to read through 28 pages of white man did this and that. Because right now this just sounds like one of the laziest attempts of the race card I've seen yet.

Let's make a deal. I'll agree to champion the cause of erasing the word "racist" (or "racism") from the English lexicon if you'll agree to do the same for the word "race card".

I'm pretty sure those two buzz words, by themselves, have the power to divide and interrupt any potential for understanding between our varying points of view.

I'm all about understanding and resolution--yeah, I'm still naive enough to believe in that, so if certain words are in OUR way, we should just stop using them.

Isn't that the reason why reasonable people don't use curse words In general conversation and/or debate? Weren't we told that there were "more intelligent" ways to articulate ourselves than by using curse words?

The same can be said of using the words "racist" and "race card". When these words are used, we may as well be cursing each other out ... and I just think we're all so much better than that.

Matter of fact, I know we are.

I pray that people can have the humility and absence of ego to dialogue and share while ALWAYS KNOWING THAT THEY COULD, AT ANYTIME, BE WRONG.

If we can't have this type of mutual humility, we will never have a chance at even the most minuscule amount of real understanding ... and shouldn't understanding be the primary reason for communication?

Makes sense, I guess they are just a giant racist corporation. And I will use whatever word I want to use to represent someone trying to use racism for gain. Race Card is a pretty nice word for that.

[ALL HAIL]

How about Robert Swift? White, out of HS drafted, huge bust-now arrested for something.

This rule is clear and simple about helping the NBA by having a free minor league in the NCAA, plus an opportunity to build up names in college. It also helps them scout. Yes, there will still be busts, but a year of college ball helps scouting-obviously.

I HATE the NCAA and I would love for big time college sports to go away for ever. But for the NBA it is about $-not race. Anyone seeing anything else is looking thru their own lens.

Finally, are current NBA players racist? THEY APPROVED THE ONE AND DONE RULE!!!!

Yes its about money. The NBA can exploit a racist society to push the idea that they simply want what's best for the players, let them get an education, blah, blah, and a racist society and media will gobble that up, instead of seeing it for what it is, which is discrimination, and well, theft.

Dude, how can you really say that this society as a whole is racist when it's the same one that elected a black president two times in a row? A society who's largest percentage of people is white?

Humor me for a second, if you will.

Question: Why is the president even considered Black?

I'd love an honest, intelligent, sincere answer.

[Neutral 123]

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to prophet off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

There is no measure that suggests blacks are above the rules, or have an unfair advantage in society. If you want race baiting, go look at what that scumbag Limbaugh had to say about SAE chant about lynching and excluding blacks. But sure, Sharpton is the problem.

From what I've seen of the women's rights movement, the lgbt movement, nothing short of relentless pressure will effect change. Blacks need a thousand Sharpton's a thousand Jesse Jackson's.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/new-yor ... id/611457/

"Blacks" don't want one Al Sharpton.

And yes this is just one example but it is very indicative of his overall behaviour.
Do you really think the world needs a thousand of this type of person?

The issue racists have with Sharpton is that he will call out racists everywhere. He offers a voice where injustices are covered up. He may not be the hero people want, but he's the one people need. He's the only right now, with the voice big enough, to speak up and out for freedom.

[Bill Bradley]

Neutral is clearly a racist, and brings nothing to this debate but racist agenda. Unless you want to get a history lesson from him just put him on ignore.

Yes put him on ignore if you want to remain an ignorant racist. Your true colors are showing.

[wigglestrue]

Bill, I know you guys on the far left have owned the issue of racism ever since Scottsboro and I'm truly glad you did and have since, because America truly was a racist hellhole then and I thank the gods -- really -- that there were so many pinkos who were willing to take a stand against the prevailing American consensus, regardless of the why, even if it was ultimately a prong in a campaign to eventually overthrow the economic and political system, because, ****, somebody had to do it, and apart from the socialists there were way too few segments of white America willing to do so, back then.

Bad news: Your side is now, and has been for a few decades, the one doing the most to keep dying and dead racist concepts alive, like Bernie. Not just keep vigil against continued or new racism, which of COURSE must always be done (AHEM), you are literally sustaining and even resurrecting and STRENGTHENING ideas about racial essences, despite however much you declaim your nuanced understanding that race is just an illusion invented by society, you still wind up trading in the same basic blanket assumptions about people's character and circumstances based on NOTHING but their race, ideas that should have died a long time ago. The fact that you yet again are telling me that I will never understand something because of my race...just amazing, amazing hypocrisy at a core philosophical level. Have you ever spent much time pondering the question, "OH MY GOD WHAT IF I'VE BECOME THE ENEMY WITHOUT REALIZING IT?"

Exactly, Al Sharpton is the biggest problem that comes to mind. He tries to profit off his own race by stirring up racist issues out everything. It's starting to feel like black people are now becoming one of the most racist races out there in their constant pursuit of not having equal rights but wanting to be above the rights. We ended segregation along time ago, Now you have these figures like Sharpton and many others who want to continue to create segregation but it's ok now because it's just segregating against every other race besides for African Americans. I just don't get this constant agenda to stir up racism from the black point of view. There are just as many racist black people as there are white people. People just need to learn to move on at this point because this country is just going in a 360 instead of moving forward as one.

I'll give you an "And0.1" for the general antipathy for Sharpton, and a "ButNo0.9" for the bulk of the rest of the post. I am under no illusions that racism itself is dead. There is even an element or two or three of stone cold reality in the overarching antiracist/anticapitalist critique of our government and culture. Out of about 20 elements, though.

But even here, with the CBA, some of the rhetoric in defense of the rule (if not the underlying logic) is tinged (in a few cases, loaded) with a racist assumption or two. What some folks have closed their minds to is the possibility that white people could ever detect and expunge racism from their own minds. Racism is now an abstract inescapable menace one is cursed with from birth, only measurable thereafter by people who are not white, people who can never be racist because racism is now only possible as a systematic exercise of power, and only white people have power...or something divorced from reality like that, something seemingly sophisticated but absolutely insane and also itself obliviously racist.

Anyway, it's not a problem with black people. There is no such monolithic entity as "black people", for one. The problem I'm trying to explain is political, not racial. The problem, frankly, is people more or less like Bill Bradley, but less earnest and less intelligent. The aggressively, condescendingly fatalistic left cannibalizing its own proud history of fighting the good fight against racism. It is now fighting the bad fight, on a macro and micro level, but horrifyingly, under the impression that its approach is more just and accurate than ever. I wish I could say there is no such monolithic entity as "the left", but their shocking degree of mental conformity says otherwise.