2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 3 (season finale)

[Edrees]

I think if people try to be as neutral as possible and use all the facts/stats available its got to be Westbrook althought its very close. I mean you have to pretty much devalue all of the top catch all type stats to get Harden over Westbrook. You just do and you have to get too far into the world of subjective opinion which I try to get as far away from as possible when deciding on awards like this. I try to be as dispassionate and analytical as possible. Also, Lebron James isn't getting the credit he deserves. He would probably be second on my ballot behind Westbrook. Its a photo finish Westbrook, James, then Harden. On an side note, the win difference between OKC and Houston is not that compelling at all to me I'm not going to go all crazy on 47 or 48 wins compared to 54 or 55 wins. If Houston was a 60+ win club it might get my attention more.

Well the difference between Houston and OKC is also the difference between OKC and the lotto

The difference between rockets and Warriors is also the difference between rockets and the lotto. All things being considered rockets aren't some elite team either.

[Scizzup]

LeBron leads all candidates in RPM and in defensive RPM - which goes along with the thought that he's quite a bit better than both Harden and Westbrook defensively.

So compared to Harden and Westbrook:

-better defensively
-more efficient
-between them in wins
-behind them in raw stats, but still just 1 of 5 players to average 26/8/8
-beats them both in RPM

And did all this with more roster turnover and injuries happening around him

Lebron is still great but the Cavs are 25-22 since January. He should finish 4th.

[RaptorsLife]

Westbrook is really historic

[Scizzup]

This is going to be close. Matt Moore who is as big of a Russ stan voting picked Harden. Windhorst switched from Harden to Russ recently and 2 other voters switched from Harden to Kawhi and the other Kawhi to Harden.

[K_chile22]

I think if people try to be as neutral as possible and use all the facts/stats available its got to be Westbrook althought its very close. I mean you have to pretty much devalue all of the top catch all type stats to get Harden over Westbrook. You just do and you have to get too far into the world of subjective opinion which I try to get as far away from as possible when deciding on awards like this. I try to be as dispassionate and analytical as possible. Also, Lebron James isn't getting the credit he deserves. He would probably be second on my ballot behind Westbrook. Its a photo finish Westbrook, James, then Harden. On an side note, the win difference between OKC and Houston is not that compelling at all to me I'm not going to go all crazy on 47 or 48 wins compared to 54 or 55 wins. If Houston was a 60+ win club it might get my attention more.

Well the difference between Houston and OKC is also the difference between OKC and the lotto

The difference between rockets and Warriors is also the difference between rockets and the lotto. All things being considered rockets aren't some elite team either.

Idk what the Warriors have to do with anything? That's also not true, the Rockets with 12 less wins would be a game up on Portland with 42. The point was the Rockets aren't significantly ahead of the Thunder. By that same logic the Thunder aren't significantly ahead of being a lottery team

[-Sammy-]

Coach Nick just weighed in:

Watch on YouTube

He's going to make arguments for Harden and Russ, too, so he's not actually throwing his support exclusively behind Kawhi, but it's still helpful to hear a reasoned case from a knowledgeable analyst.

[PackAttack9]

Russell will be the one winning Most Valuable Player of this season, because he was the highest performing individual player.

Harden falls to #2 despite winning more games, and making his teammates better.

Kawhi, if Wetbrook didn't have the season he did it would be a 2 man race between Harden and Kawhi.
LeBron #4. The number of games lost in the second half of the season was too many, and Cavs would be #4 or even #5 in the Western Conference.
Giannis or Isaiah #5. Giannis has affected the game more(top 20 in every category), IT has been the Celtics' closer. You couldn't go wrong with either vote, but they're both 2nd team All-NBA at least.

[Triples333]

Russell will be the one winning Most Valuable Player of this season, because he was the highest performing individual player.

Harden falls to #2 despite winning more games, and making his teammates better.

Kawhi, if Wetbrook didn't have the season he did it would be a 2 man race between Harden and Kawhi.
LeBron #4. The number of games lost in the second half of the season was too many, and Cavs would be #4 or even #5 in the Western Conference.
Giannis or Isaiah #5. Giannis has affected the game more(top 20 in every category), IT has been the Celtics' closer. You couldn't go wrong with either vote, but they're both 2nd team All-NBA at least.

That is certainly debatable, and it would be far from the first time that the top performing player did not win MVP. I'd also argue that Curry should be in the thick of it (not #1, but in the top 5). Top performer on the top team this season (the standard MVP criteria), and lead them on a 14-0 streak sans KD, and just in general a top 3 player in the game.

[Edrees]

Well the difference between Houston and OKC is also the difference between OKC and the lotto

The difference between rockets and Warriors is also the difference between rockets and the lotto. All things being considered rockets aren't some elite team either.

Idk what the Warriors have to do with anything? That's also not true, the Rockets with 12 less wins would be a game up on Portland with 42. The point was the Rockets aren't significantly ahead of the Thunder. By that same logic the Thunder aren't significantly ahead of being a lottery team

The argument being made was the relative distance between the rockets and thunder, but I brought up the Warriors to show that they are relatively in the same tier when it comes to the best teams in the league, good teams in the league, vs bad teams in the league. You've got the Spurs and Warriors at the top tier, who can actually win a championship, then you've got a bunch of other teams in another tier - both Rockets and Thunder can "make noise in the playoffs." . Harden hasn't elevated his team into being a real contender either so I think there's an over emphasis on the apparent win gap between him and Westbrook. I really don't think the difference between a team that wins 49 games a season vs 56 games a season is some huge step up. I was trying to say although the Rockets are better than the Thunder, neither team is even close to being a contender.

BTW, Thunder would be tied for 8th seed with 7 less wins, so the comparison is really close.

[BallerTalk]

ICYMI:
In the 1st quarter of tonight's game James Harden became the first man in NBA history to record 2,000 points, 900 assists and 600 rebounds in a single-season .

[K_chile22]

The difference between rockets and Warriors is also the difference between rockets and the lotto. All things being considered rockets aren't some elite team either.

Idk what the Warriors have to do with anything? That's also not true, the Rockets with 12 less wins would be a game up on Portland with 42. The point was the Rockets aren't significantly ahead of the Thunder. By that same logic the Thunder aren't significantly ahead of being a lottery team

The argument being made was the relative distance between the rockets and thunder, but I brought up the Warriors to show that they are relatively in the same tier when it comes to the best teams in the league, good teams in the league, vs bad teams in the league. You've got the Spurs and Warriors at the top tier, who can actually win a championship, then you've got a bunch of other teams in another tier - both Rockets and Thunder can "make noise in the playoffs." . Harden hasn't elevated his team into being a real contender either so I think there's an over emphasis on the apparent win gap between him and Westbrook. I really don't think the difference between a team that wins 49 games a season vs 56 games a season is some huge step up. I was trying to say although the Rockets are better than the Thunder, neither team is even close to being a contender.

BTW, Thunder would be tied for 8th seed with 7 less wins, so the comparison is really close.

Even if they beat the Rockets in the first round, that's where it stops. They don't have a shot in hell against the Spurs. The Rockets do. The Rockets may not be true contenders but they are much closer than the Thunder. If you don't think 7/8 wins is significant idk what to tell you. That's a lot of wins. Less than the Rockets are back of the Spurs. Saying there's no significant difference between the team with the 3rd highest record and the team with the 10th is silly.

I don't even care about the MVP discussion, that's just a weird ass stance

[ocelot17]

Read on Twitter

[ckman]

Read on Twitter

Cherry pick stats.

In other news Westbrook is the only player in history to record 2500 pts 800 rebounds and 800 assists in a season.

See it's easy mine looks more impressive too

[K_chile22]

Read on Twitter

Cherry pick stats.

In other news Westbrook is the only player in history to record 2500 pts 800 rebounds and 800 assists in a season.

See it's easy mine looks more impressive too

Are triple doubles not "cherry picked stats" then?

[K_chile22]

Harden apperently fell one point short of Tiny's points created record

[ckman]

Read on Twitter

Cherry pick stats.

In other news Westbrook is the only player in history to record 2500 pts 800 rebounds and 800 assists in a season.

See it's easy mine looks more impressive too

Are triple doubles not "cherry picked stats" then?

Well it's have a name ,it's call triple double, it's been called that way for decades. Not some random stats where i can put in random numbers.

[ocelot17]

Read on Twitter

Cherry pick stats.

In other news Westbrook is the only player in history to record 2500 pts 800 rebounds and 800 assists in a season.

See it's easy mine looks more impressive too

Are triple doubles not "cherry picked stats" then?

Too bad Westbrook couldn't cherry pick what actually matters - wins.

[K_chile22]

Cherry pick stats.

In other news Westbrook is the only player in history to record 2500 pts 800 rebounds and 800 assists in a season.

See it's easy mine looks more impressive too

Are triple doubles not "cherry picked stats" then?

Well it's have a name ,it's call triple double, it's been called that way for decades. Not some random stats where i can put in random numbers.

I mean... The reason there's no name for this or the 2000 points/2000 assist points Club Harden founded is because its never been done before. Having a catchy name doesn't make something more important, impressive, or less arbitrary

[ckman]

Are triple doubles not "cherry picked stats" then?

Well it's have a name ,it's call triple double, it's been called that way for decades. Not some random stats where i can put in random numbers.

I mean... The reason there's no name for this or the 2000 points/2000 assist points Club Harden founded is because its never been done before. Having a catchy name doesn't make something more important, impressive, or less arbitrary

Ok whatever, will enjoy your threads and posts when NBA announced the winner well ofcoz in case if someone you like didnt win it.

[K_chile22]

Well it's have a name ,it's call triple double, it's been called that way for decades. Not some random stats where i can put in random numbers.

I mean... The reason there's no name for this or the 2000 points/2000 assist points Club Harden founded is because its never been done before. Having a catchy name doesn't make something more important, impressive, or less arbitrary

Ok whatever, will enjoy your threads and posts when NBA announced the winner well ofcoz in case if someone you like didnt win it.

I really wouldn't mind one bit if Westbrook wins. He deserves it, as do a few others. But propping up his triple double and discounting other players accomplishments is really lame. If what Harden did is random and not important, triple doubles are even less so.